New protocol for posting venue recommendations

[Lev]

We are changing the way we allow recommendation topics slightly by no longer permitting the posting of full menus and price lists for venues that do not advertise. We feel that allowing this is unfair on the ones that do and above all, we take care of those that help to support this forum.

A number of recent topics have highlighted how easy it is to take advantage of the system whether intentional or not, venue owners can easily get a board member to post their products on their behalf and members can easily offer to do so.

If owners and managers want to be professional with their marketing they can take a ten-baht-a-day advertorial as Naab Thong, Terrace 90, Souay Vista and Shake Central have done. Then they, or their friends and customers, can post menus, prices and product images until their heart's content. We cannot make it any easier or cheaper for shops, cafes, bars and restaurants to market themselves to a large audience.

We continue to encourage recommendations for and discussion on restaurants, bakeries, bars, bistros and coffee shops but can no longer permit posting full menus and prices as it is unfair to our existing sponsors who are paying for the privilege. Thank you for your understanding.

[Roel]

Fair enough!

[kendo]

Good on you guys for looking after your existing sponsors.

Their has been more and more unofficial advertizing on here of late, 10 baht a day in my opinion is an absolute bargain for a target audience this big.

I subscribe to a internet courier trading platform, and once they have got their £50.00 a month they could not care two hoots about you.

Kendo.

[SunandFun]

Good decision! Have to draw the line some where. I pledge to support the advertisers first when I have a choice. I hope others will follow too.

[dtaai-maai]

For a good breakfast we like Bobby's bar on Soi 102.

They are also starting a free BBQ on Fridays.

Edited by mod as per our new protocol regarding venue recommendations viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20524

Mods, forgive me for drifting off topic. The new protocol states

...no longer permitting the posting of full menus and price lists for venues that do not advertise

I understood that to mean reproducing a copy of the menu and/or full price list, and I think that's perfectly reasonable. Can we not refer to prices at all now unless it's a sponsor? That surely can't be the intention.

Please move this to 'Suggestions' if necessary.

[lomuamart]

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with prices per se but there was more to the edited material than just that, especially as what was included had originated directly from the owner.
Early days on this one until we find the right balance but included in the new protocol is:

"A number of recent topics have highlighted how easy it is to take advantage of the system whether intentional or not, venue owners can easily get a board member to post their products on their behalf and members can easily offer to do so".

Not suggesting that the inclusion of the words was intentional but it did seem to go against the spirit of the new protocol.

[bapak]

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with prices per se but there was more to the edited material than just that, especially as what was included had originated directly from the owner.
Early days on this one until we find the right balance but included in the new protocol is:

"A number of recent topics have highlighted how easy it is to take advantage of the system whether intentional or not, venue owners can easily get a board member to post their products on their behalf and members can easily offer to do so".

Not suggesting that the inclusion of the words was intentional but it did seem to go against the spirit of the new protocol.

I must admit that several times I have posted a full / or partial menu of a restaurant I have visit that I consider worth promoting.

In every instance I have either purloined the menu or used my camera. In no instances have I asked or been asked by the owner to promote their establishment.. although a day or so after the event I informed the owner of my posting on the Forum... but have also suggested that they contact the Forum to do some form of advertising.

In my opinion, this does not unduly harm existing advertising.

What is better? Say that such and such an location does great bacon and eggs.. and nothing more. Then someone on the will ask where, next persons asks how much... and so on, untild there are a large number of entries on the subjects...Or get it all over in one blast.

[Paderborn]

Hi all ,
Sorry Mods, I had not pick up on the new protocol so I didn't realise I was flaunting the new regulations
Apologies
Cheers Paderborn

[dtaai-maai]

Early days on this one until we find the right balance but included in the new protocol is:

"A number of recent topics have highlighted how easy it is to take advantage of the system whether intentional or not, venue owners can easily get a board member to post their products on their behalf and members can easily offer to do so".

Not suggesting that the inclusion of the words was intentional but it did seem to go against the spirit of the new protocol.

I agree that it's early days, and it is in that spirit of trying to find the right balance that I'm posting.

We are changing the way we allow recommendation topics slightly by no longer permitting the posting of full menus and price lists for venues that do not advertise.

That is the change in protocol in a nutshell - short and sweet and perfectly clear. Everything else is by way of explanation. If you make it any more complicated than that it will be completely impossible to moderate and nobody will be happy.

Let's say my mate opens a restaurant called Uncle Tom's Cabin. Next day I post this by request although I haven't been yet:

"Found a great new eatery/watering hole south of Hua Hin today. A fantastic range of Thai and farang food - ours was well-cooked and the prices seem extremely reasonable." and perhaps a bit more, but no need to over-egg the pudding.

There is absolutely no way Admin can check I've been there, and I've clearly breached the spirit of the new protocol, and indeed the old one, but I haven't posted a menu or prices so there's nothing to be done. Simple as that really. Of course it will soon be obvious if it's crap or expensive, and I'll look very silly.

I make a point of telling places I go to that I'm there because of what I saw on the forum. If we keep plugging away, it will make a difference. I think it probably has already, as there seems to be a decent turnover in sponsors, advertorials, etc. in all types of business.

Do we really believe that regular posters are in the habit of trying this on - deliberate promotion of a friend who wants to save a few bob? Possibly in the past to a limited degree, but I really don't think so now. If a brand new member suddenly pops up and recommends somewhere without so much as a 'by your leave', we all know what's going on.

But I do think that when striking this balance, the forum doesn't try to get too pernickety.

[lomuamart]

Fair enough, d-m, but did you see the original post?
Paderborn has said he wasn't aware of the new protocol. I'm sure that's correct and if he had seen it he wouldn't have copied a verbatim quote sent to him from the owner stating the day, time, menu and price of a forthcoming promotion.
Our existing advertisers use their advertorials to good effect in exactly this way. I fail to see why a non-sponsor of the site should be able to do the same, albeit through another member who has already apologised for posting it.
There's nothing wrong with giving general reviews, but this wasn't the case in this instance.
It's something that us Mods and Admin need to discuss but for the time being the literally promotional part of the post will remain edited.

[dtaai-maai]

Don't get me wrong, lomu, I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about one post, just giving my own views on the overall 'protocol' thing - even the word protocol sends faint shivers up my spine, to be honest.

I'll play devil's advocate from time to time, Mods, because I'd hate to see this forum go too far down the "committee" road.

Of course there have to be rules and regulations, but these need to be constantly open to question and review by everybody (without bickering openly about individual decisions) to keep everyone on their toes.

[Lev]

We're not going down any road - we just fail to see why these places cant stump up ten baht a day (less than the price of a small beer each week) to have their own thread, but have to rely on their customers clandestinely plugging them here. As said above - most mention the forum to these bar/rest/bistro owners but 99% of them ignore us - it is very frustrating, if the owner of "Bobby's" or whatever wants to be professional, he shouldn't get others to post info for him on this board or spam people with emails - we don't go into his place asking for free beer or meals.

As said in the OP - we look after those that look after us and have little tolerance for freeloaders, its as simple as that.

[Paderborn]

We're not going down any road - we just fail to see why these places cant stump up ten baht a day (less than the price of a small beer each week) to have their own thread, but have to rely on their customers clandestinely plugging them here. As said above - most mention the forum to these bar/rest/bistro owners but 99% of them ignore us - it is very frustrating, if the owner of "Bobby's" or whatever wants to be professional, he shouldn't get others to post info for him on this board or spam people with emails - we don't go into his place asking for free beer or meals.

As said in the OP - we look after those that look after us and have little tolerance for freeloaders, its as simple as that.

I beg your pardon Lev, particularly as a moderator I am truly disgusted with your comments.
The owner of Bobbys had no idea, that I made my post. and I did so in the spirit of wanting to share my experience with fellow board members, not wanting to boost the profits of Bobbys bar. Bobby's certainly did not ask me to clandestinely plug for them. To imply that.... well what an insult.
I flouted a new protocol regulation that I had never seen until I was pulled up about it, and I openly apologised for it.

So, to be using terms like clandestinely plugging, be professional, getting others to post for him, spamming emails, and freeloading is a disgrace. Bobby, is a decent chap who would help anyone if he could, he is cetainly not a user and a freeloader, and I am sure others will agree. I am horrified that from me sharing a snippet of information that someone could come out with that!

If you want a whipping boy then it is me not Bobby.

I have supported board sponsors and advertisers with my business and custom, and I have equally acted upon hints and tips that the general public have shared with us all as well.

It is not everyday that I can give something back to this forum. A forum that has helped me a lot in the past, with a host of questions , issues and problems. I was feeling quite pleased that I something genuine could contribute, but following this, I will certainly think twice before I post anything again, and then if I do I had better mind my P & Q's hadn't I?

DM has made point regarding protocols, and I think he made them well. Good for him, to not be afraid to challenge and keep the board on its toes!

For these threads to decend to this is inappropriate and disappointing, after all the opening statement on HHAD home page is that HHAD is Hua Hin's definitive information portal. Or is that just now just for sponsors and advertisers?
Regards paderborn

[Lev]

For these threads to decend to this is inappropriate and disappointing, after all the opening statement on HHAD home page is that HHAD is Hua Hin's definitive information portal. Or is that just now just for sponsors and advertisers?

Not at all - the comment was a general one directed at all members and all venues, the one quoted was just used as an example and not intended personally - apologies if it offended.

As stated the new policy is to prevent freeloading which is increasing on here and to extend greater support to those venues that support us.

We cannot make it any easier or cheaper for shops, cafes, bars and restaurants to market themselves to a large audience.

We continue to encourage recommendations for and discussion on restaurants, bakeries, bars, bistros and coffee shops

[dtaai-maai]

I think the low-range, mid-range and top-end hotel recommendations with prices, links, etc. are a very useful addition to the forum.