The Beer Thread

Restaurants, food, beverage, hawkers, and local markets and suppliers. This is the place for discussion on Hua Hin's culinary options.
SPONSORS: Hua Hin Ham & Bacon : The Palm Bistro
Post Reply
User avatar
404cameljockey
Guru
Guru
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:14 am

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by 404cameljockey » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:08 am

That's bloody good, bless them. :D :D

User avatar
buksida
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 15921
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:25 pm
Location: south of sanity
Contact:

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by buksida » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:54 am

One thing I have noticed after a recent break from it is how rotten you feel the following day after over indulging on Thai beer. You don't get the same feeling from drinking beer in other countries - there are definitely some nasties in the beer here. Go easy on it!
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Get out there: On The Road Asia

User avatar
J.J.B.
Guru
Guru
Posts: 851
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by J.J.B. » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:02 pm

^^Thanks for that, Buksi, I just spied some Singha cans in the local Sainsbury’s yesterday and bought myself a six pack - I’ll test it on my unsuspecting guests this weekend! In my experience, though, over-indulging in any beer makes me feel crap the next day so it’s all relative.
:cheers:

Now, as for CO2 and Nitrogen as they relate to beer, it’s an interesting one. Beer is carbonated according to how many volumes of CO2 the beer style should have. CO2 dissolves in beer according to the pressure of the CO2 applied (PSI), the temperature of the beer (colder beer dissolves CO2 more quickly) and the time allowed for the dissolution to occur. A stout, such as Guinness, would generally have 0.8 to 1.2 volumes of CO2, a pale ale would have perhaps 1.6 while lagers often have 2.0 above.

Nitrogen does not dissolve in beer. Nitrogen is only used to push beer from one place to another, generally along pipes from the barrel to the tap. Take a pub that has taps in the bar and barrels in the cellar. Hand pumps are still used to vacuum pump cask ales from the cellar to the tap but many other beers use gas to push the beer down in the keg and up to the tap. The longer the vertical distance required the greater the pressure required and if CO2 alone is used the risk of over-carbonating the beer can result.

“Pub Gas” is a mix of CO2 and Nitrogen in either 70/30, 50/50 or 30/70 and is see selected on the basis of beer style, height needed to lift it and the cellar temperature. Nitrogen is more efficient as it is not dissolved but sometimes the CO2 can come out of the beer solution and you are left with an odd-tasting beer, but it is not the nitrogen you are tasting.

Bottle-conditioned beers are those where beer is bottled in addition to a small quantity of sugar and secondary fermentation occurs, releasing CO2 that dissolves and gives you the correct “mouthfeel” of the beer. This requires live yeast, however, and since most commercial beer is Pasteurised, killing the yeast, it is force carbonated with CO2 before bottling.

I love beer. :cheers:
"A man who does not think for himself, does not think at all."
Wilde

User avatar
Nereus
Addict
Addict
Posts: 6279
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by Nereus » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:01 pm

I do not drink beer, never have, but I am not a wowser and did drink spirits for many years. However, I have been told many times that formaldehyde is used as a preservative in some beers, and, depending on the concentration, is to blame for "hangovers". J.J.B. what do you say?

https://www.choice.com.au/food-and-drin ... e-and-beer

http://cizauskas.net/thomas/articles/ca ... ehyde.html

http://www.beer-faq.com/formaldehyde-beer/
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!

User avatar
johnjar
Professional
Professional
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:34 pm
Location: Hua Hin , Thailand

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by johnjar » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:11 pm

J.J.B. wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:02 pm
^^Thanks for that, Buksi, I just spied some Singha cans in the local Sainsbury’s yesterday and bought myself a six pack - I’ll test it on my unsuspecting guests this weekend! In my experience, though, over-indulging in any beer makes me feel crap the next day so it’s all relative.
:cheers:

Now, as for CO2 and Nitrogen as they relate to beer, it’s an interesting one. Beer is carbonated according to how many volumes of CO2 the beer style should have. CO2 dissolves in beer according to the pressure of the CO2 applied (PSI), the temperature of the beer (colder beer dissolves CO2 more quickly) and the time allowed for the dissolution to occur. A stout, such as Guinness, would generally have 0.8 to 1.2 volumes of CO2, a pale ale would have perhaps 1.6 while lagers often have 2.0 above.

Nitrogen does not dissolve in beer. Nitrogen is only used to push beer from one place to another, generally along pipes from the barrel to the tap. Take a pub that has taps in the bar and barrels in the cellar. Hand pumps are still used to vacuum pump cask ales from the cellar to the tap but many other beers use gas to push the beer down in the keg and up to the tap. The longer the vertical distance required the greater the pressure required and if CO2 alone is used the risk of over-carbonating the beer can result.

“Pub Gas” is a mix of CO2 and Nitrogen in either 70/30, 50/50 or 30/70 and is see selected on the basis of beer style, height needed to lift it and the cellar temperature. Nitrogen is more efficient as it is not dissolved but sometimes the CO2 can come out of the beer solution and you are left with an odd-tasting beer, but it is not the nitrogen you are tasting.

Bottle-conditioned beers are those where beer is bottled in addition to a small quantity of sugar and secondary fermentation occurs, releasing CO2 that dissolves and gives you the correct “mouthfeel” of the beer. This requires live yeast, however, and since most commercial beer is Pasteurised, killing the yeast, it is force carbonated with CO2 before bottling.

I love beer. :cheers:
JJB..You are for sure a guru on many subjects! That was a very technical explanation that even a dummy like myself can grasp, over years I have had many friends and family members proud of their home brew asking me to sample them, some were very good and some not so good and the one thing they all had common was that yeasty taste and the sediment at bottom of bottle , so now I understand ,unlike commercial beer home brew has not been Pasteurized.. :cheers:

User avatar
J.J.B.
Guru
Guru
Posts: 851
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by J.J.B. » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:36 pm

Thank you, Johnjar, there are some things I have interests about and tend to go “all-in” where I can, such as my own home brew hobby. With mine, I’m now carbonating in a stainless steel keg and then transferring into bottles to exactly avoid the yeasty taste and sediment problem. There is no good way for a home brewer to calculate the amount of yeast left in bottles or the exact amount of sugar to add in order to perfectly secondary ferment the beer to give the right amount of CO2.

Good advice is to always pour a home brew beer into a glass in one gentle movement and always to leave at least an inch of beer in the bottle. Definitely no swigging from the bottle, as you pirates prefer, as this just mixes up all the sediment and will teach you another interesting fact of what yeast does to the digestive system!

As for formaldehyde, Nereus, I’ll take a look at those links but can assure you it’s not something I would use and I think that it’s now pretty hard to get hold of, on account of it being carcinogenic. It could be that some yeasts are able to produce it in small quantities in the right environment as it’s an organic compound of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, just like water, sugar and alcohol.

As for hangovers, there is a simplistic explanation I can provide. Alcohol is a blend of chemicals that often contains both ethanol and methanol. They are both metabolised in the liver but ethanol C2H5OH is preferentially metabolised over methanol, CH3OH, possibly as it is a ‘lighter’ fraction. Ethanol isn’t especially harmful but methanol is quite toxic so when you wake up after a skinful, not only are you battling shrunken meninges in your skull due to dehydration but your liver has sorted out all the ethanol and is now tackling the methanol. Yeuch!

If you introduce a bit more ethanol to the liver, it will stop working on the methanol and switch to the preferred ethanol, which has fewer side effects. This is the “hair of the dog” theory and does tend to work. Your liver will still have to metabolise the methanol but generally later in the day, after you’ve had some paracetamol and a big, greasy fry-up to help you on your way. :laugh:
"A man who does not think for himself, does not think at all."
Wilde

User avatar
404cameljockey
Guru
Guru
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:14 am

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by 404cameljockey » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:43 pm

Nitrogen also is used to give draught and canned beer a specific taste, mouthfeel and head rather than CO2, not just as a delivery system.

"Breweries typically use carbon dioxide to give a beer its quintessential bitter fizz, but when a drink calls for a sweeter, silkier experience — such as the experience you get when drinking a Guinness — brewers infuse the ale with nitrogen rather than with carbon dioxide. Nitrogen bubbles are smaller than CO2 bubbles, so the resulting head and taste is smoother and more delicate.

Nitrogen gas also doesn't easily dissolve in water, so when you crack open a beer, most of the gas is released into the air but the foamy bubbles in the head still remain. This — along with the smaller bubbles — gives the brew a thicker, more velvety "mouthfeel" without the acidic bite of carbonation with CO2."

http://www.businessinsider.com/plastic- ... gen-2015-9

Anyway, it all pales beside stuff like bottle-conditioned Worthington White Shield (careful how you pour that bad boy). :)

User avatar
johnjar
Professional
Professional
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:34 pm
Location: Hua Hin , Thailand

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by johnjar » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:07 pm

J.J.B. wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:36 pm
Thank you, Johnjar, there are some things I have interests about and tend to go “all-in” where I can, such as my own home brew hobby. With mine, I’m now carbonating in a stainless steel keg and then transferring into bottles to exactly avoid the yeasty taste and sediment problem. There is no good way for a home brewer to calculate the amount of yeast left in bottles or the exact amount of sugar to add in order to perfectly secondary ferment the beer to give the right amount of CO2.

Good advice is to always pour a home brew beer into a glass in one gentle movement and always to leave at least an inch of beer in the bottle. Definitely no swigging from the bottle, as you pirates prefer, as this just mixes up all the sediment and will teach you another interesting fact of what yeast does to the digestive system!

As for formaldehyde, Nereus, I’ll take a look at those links but can assure you it’s not something I would use and I think that it’s now pretty hard to get hold of, on account of it being carcinogenic. It could be that some yeasts are able to produce it in small quantities in the right environment as it’s an organic compound of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, just like water, sugar and alcohol.

As for hangovers, there is a simplistic explanation I can provide. Alcohol is a blend of chemicals that often contains both ethanol and methanol. They are both metabolised in the liver but ethanol C2H5OH is preferentially metabolised over methanol, CH3OH, possibly as it is a ‘lighter’ fraction. Ethanol isn’t especially harmful but methanol is quite toxic so when you wake up after a skinful, not only are you battling shrunken meninges in your skull due to dehydration but your liver has sorted out all the ethanol and is now tackling the methanol. Yeuch!

If you introduce a bit more ethanol to the liver, it will stop working on the methanol and switch to the preferred ethanol, which has fewer side effects. This is the “hair of the dog” theory and does tend to work. Your liver will still have to metabolise the methanol but generally later in the day, after you’ve had some paracetamol and a big, greasy fry-up to help you on your way. :laugh:
JJB ... "and will teach you another interesting fact of what yeast does to the digestive system"Yes you can say that again I was caught several times with that, I could have picked off a mosquito from 5 meters.

User avatar
Nereus
Addict
Addict
Posts: 6279
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by Nereus » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:30 pm

Here you go J.J.B. Probably an urban myth, but who knows?

http://www.fermentarium.com/random-news ... were-true/

Budweiser contains formaldehyde

We were so sure that this rumor was a myth, we added it to the list to research later.  This might come as a shock to you.  It shocked us when we found this on Notre Dame’s website .  Canned beer does contain a small amount of the same junk that keeps your dead Kermit (frog) fresh for biology class.  At least it used to.

Formaldehyde was used to kill bacteria that attacked the lubricant used in the manufacturing process of cans.  The cans were rinsed, but a small amount always remained.  People got used to this flavor in their canned beer.  Other emulsions are used now, so there is no formaldehyde in current beers in America (there are reports that Chinese and Thai beers are using formaldehyde).  Its legacy does remain – the newer emulsions created must have the formaldehyde flavor, otherwise it will change the flavor of the beer.  People are so used to it, that they expect it.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!

User avatar
J.J.B.
Guru
Guru
Posts: 851
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by J.J.B. » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:20 pm

Formaldehyde - worrying stuff! :shock:

I suppose we shouldn’t be too surprised by what goes into much of our food and drink when it’s made on an industrial scale and to a budget. One of the reasons to brew my own was to have total control of the ingredients and sanitation. Beer ‘finings’ are a really tricky area though and there are various suggestions touted by the craft beer brewers who want to produce a totally clear product. Given enough time, all beer should clear naturally and the sediment fall to the bottom but in order to speed things up it’s remarkable what people will try.
"A man who does not think for himself, does not think at all."
Wilde

User avatar
Dannie Boy
Rock Star
Rock Star
Posts: 4619
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:12 pm
Location: Closer to Cha Am than Hua Hin

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by Dannie Boy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:33 pm

J.J.B. wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:20 pm
Formaldehyde - worrying stuff! :shock:

I suppose we shouldn’t be too surprised by what goes into much of our food and drink when it’s made on an industrial scale and to a budget. One of the reasons to brew my own was to have total control of the ingredients and sanitation. Beer ‘finings’ are a really tricky area though and there are various suggestions touted by the craft beer brewers who want to produce a totally clear product. Given enough time, all beer should clear naturally and the sediment fall to the bottom but in order to speed things up it’s remarkable what people will try.
When I was into home brew maybe 30 years ago, I used to put isinglass in the beer to help it clear - isinglass is a natural product from fish (with no smell/taste of fish) and certainly worked to produce a clear brew.

Peroni
Amateur
Amateur
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:58 am

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by Peroni » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:36 am

From my experience if you want pure unadulterated beer, then German brewed and bottled should be your first stop.
A quote from Wikipedia,
"The Reinheitsgebot ("purity decree"), sometimes called the "German Beer Purity Law" or the "Bavarian Purity Law" in English, was a regulation concerning the production of beer in Germany.
In the original text, the only ingredients that could be used in the production of beer were water, barley, and hops, which had to be added only while the wort was boiling. After its discovery, yeast became the fourth legal ingredient. For top-fermenting beers, the use of sugar is also permitted."

My understanding is that if it sold in Germany with the label "Beer" then it must comply with the above mentioned law.

John :cheers: :cheers:

Peroni
Amateur
Amateur
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:58 am

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by Peroni » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:39 am

Another aspect of bottled beer that this thread has rekindled in my memory is my dear departed father never really liked drinking bottled beer here in Australia. He complained that the breweries would add Arsenic as a preservative and that contributed to the ill effects the following day.

John :cheers: :cheers:

User avatar
johnjar
Professional
Professional
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:34 pm
Location: Hua Hin , Thailand

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by johnjar » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:11 pm

Peroni wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:36 am
From my experience if you want pure unadulterated beer, then German brewed and bottled should be your first stop.
A quote from Wikipedia,
"The Reinheitsgebot ("purity decree"), sometimes called the "German Beer Purity Law" or the "Bavarian Purity Law" in English, was a regulation concerning the production of beer in Germany.
In the original text, the only ingredients that could be used in the production of beer were water, barley, and hops, which had to be added only while the wort was boiling. After its discovery, yeast became the fourth legal ingredient. For top-fermenting beers, the use of sugar is also permitted."

My understanding is that if it sold in Germany with the label "Beer" then it must comply with the above mentioned law.

John :cheers: :cheers:
I Agree! Having worked in Germany in the mid 1970's.The German beer really wets the whistle especially (after a hard days yakka) from them stien mugs.What I liked about Germany though, they even served beer in the shipyard's canteen's during coffee breaks.Ein bier bitte :cheers:

User avatar
Chazz14
Specialist
Specialist
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:55 pm
Location: Amphur Cha Am

Re: The Beer Thread

Post by Chazz14 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Years ago, a family member was training to be a chemist. She learned that because vodka is such a pure spirit, chemicals called congeners are added to simulate a thick head the morning after drinking.

The following morning after drinking Thai beer (esp. Chang) the beer always seems to linger in my stomach for an hour or so after waking.

On a fortnight's visit back to England last year I felt it my duty to check out the real ale scene. Drank it every night - no head or stomach problems at all...
“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
― Frank Zappa

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PeteC and 4 guests