Bangkok high rise fire

[kendo]

Bert we will decide who we give warnings too not you.

Serious subject matter.

[Bristolian]

When I first came to live in Bangok NY wife and I were seriously impressed by the size, decor and wooden flooring of some of the older codiminiums. However each condo would be using cylinder cooking gas with at least one spare cylinder. There were no sprinkler systems, few had fire alarms and even less had fire fighting equipment (hoses etc on each floor) finally we settled for a more modern "new build" at, I must say a far higher price per sqm. The building is only 8 floors with approx 10 condos per floor but has a firewall escape stare case at each end of the building, sprinkler system in all public areas, smoke detectors in each room of the condo and full sets of extinguishers and hoses in each floor. The condo is managed by in of the 3 big BKK developers and organise full fire drills, with the fire department in attendance, every 6 months.

Yes my condo was more expensive than the older and perhaps more stylish condos on offer at the time but what price do you put on the safety of your family.

When choosing a home in HH, I was again confronted by gas cylinder cookers and chose to throw them out in favour of electrical appliances. Whilst we now have a single level house, in HH, we have installed smoke detectors throughout and fire extinguishers in the kitchen and my workshop. What price or piece of mind can you place on your family's safety. It's really a very small cost to do it right

[Khundon1975]

Bristolian

Looks like you made a good choice of condo in BKK, all the necessary safety measures in place, especially the two separate staircases. That old adage "you get what you pay for" is true, especially in Thailand.

When FIL built a house for us in HH, my wife wanted 2 electric fan ovens, but also wanted 2 gas hobs.
I was OK with that, but insisted that those damn big gas bottles, were well away from the house.
So, when the ground works were taking place, I got the builder to lay 100mm galvanized steel pipe, 1 meter below ground across the site, from the boundary wall, to a point below the kitchen.

When the house was built, we installed rubber gas pipe within the steel pipe and up through the concrete floor, up through the kitchen base units and into the 2 gas hobs. Then constructed a block storage unit to house the bottles, near the boundary wall.
Everyone happy. She got her gas hobs and I got to be a long way from a Nuclear bomb.

When we had the first 2 bottles delivered and fitted (2 lads on a motorbike and sidecar) their idea of testing the seal between bottle and flow valve, was to whip out a ciggy lighter and spark it up next to the valve.
When I realized what he was about to do, I was half way down the soi, before he managed to raise a spark.

The point being, many Thais have a complete disregard for their safety when using these gas bottles, especially in the house.
I am not saying that a gas bottle exploded and started the fire, as there was no report of an explosion, but a faulty valve fitting, would certainly allow a jet of propane to escape and just a spark would have set it off.

These gas cylinders, are banned in high rise apartment blocks in the UK and for good reason.

We will only know for sure what caused this particular fire, when the investigation is complete.

[Khundon1975]

You posted back in September, on the “End Rabies Day” thread, (a serious thread on a serious subject to many forum users), a “shoot the dogs” post, instead of giving the forum users any sensible input on the subject
It was a sensible input. There are to many stray dogs and they should be culled. Just because you don't agree with my views, does not make them any less valid

Once again you disrupt a serious subject, despite a moderator warning you against it.
Cutting and pasting a MODS warning meant for you, is not clever, nor does it add anything to the discussion.
I felt you should share the warning as you where the one who used abusive terms first

Anyway, getting back to the fire. I am wondering if it was started accidentally or if it was malicious. The family are wealthy and have political back grounds after all.

Bert91157

I will ignore all of the Blue in the above post, but I'm more than willing to discuss the observations you raised, at the end of your post.

“Anyway, getting back to the fire. I am wondering if it was started accidentally or if it was malicious. The family are wealthy and have political back grounds after all”

Yes, I understand that the family are wealthy, they own an airline, Phuket Air I believe, and no doubt, have other business interests in Thailand.
As to Vikrom Aisiri political background, well he was a former Democrat MP, but I believe had retired from that position some time ago.

There was no mention in the article, as to whether there was any CCTV covering the building, nor if there were any security guards at the entrance to the building, so we don't yet know, if any unauthorized person had entered the building, prior to the fire starting.
Of course, if there was no CCTV and an unguarded back entrance, then anyone could, in theory, have entered the building and started a fire and exited the way they entered and disappeared, by mingling with the other people in the street.

The fire spread very quickly throughout the building, but to say whether it was arson and an accelerator or other substance had been used, would be pure speculation, at this point in time.

If and I stress, if, the Thai police or fire department do a thorough investigation, then analysis of the area where they believe the fire started, will reveal that.

[Nereus]

Some relevant comments here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... ding-flaws

Deadly blaze uncovers our building flaws

At a glance, the massive blaze that engulfed a luxury residential building in Narathiwat Soi 18, claiming one life and causing six injuries, last Friday morning might make some believe that it was just another case of a forgetful resident who left burning candles and joss sticks unattended.

But if we look more deeply, we can see many flaws and legal loopholes which, if addressed, would have prevented casualties, including the wife of the building owner who suffocated. It's apparent that firefighters faced difficulty in getting to the location because it is on a narrow road and the building's height made it next to impossible to extinguish the flames.

But after an initial investigation, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) ruled out any breach of building control regulations by the owner. While the 1992 Building Safety Control Act requires structures over eight storeys to be fitted with sprinkler systems and fire escapes, this doomed building (nine storeys tall, 10 if rooftop area is counted) was an exception because it was constructed in 1991 and the law is not retroactive.

More at the link........................

[Khundon1975]

Nereus Thanks for that link.

Reading that article, it would seem that anyone, especially if they have the funds, could drive a coach and horses through the regulations and get away with it. Even when peoples lives are at risk!

The Supreme Court, ruled that a building be demolished and it is still standing 14 months later! so fat chance of much being done by the relevant authorities, to take action on fire safety in High Rise buildings.
Could it be, because the building is purported to be worth 3 Billion Baht

I wonder, just how many of those 11,300 building mentioned, have even seen an inspector?
I bet, I could count them on one hand.

Life is cheap in Thailand.

[Bristolian]

I wonder, just how many of those 11,300 building mentioned, have even seen an inspector?
I bet, I could count them on one hand.

Life is cheap in Thailand.

And who could disagree?
The whole disregard for safety, permitted throughout the country. It doesn't matter if it's home related or work or pleasure it's really difficult to identify any area that has and keeps international standards.

The Thai airlines are called into question, we all see the total disregard to safety every day in the roads by both the using public and the authorities.

In my experience it's not any better in the majority of Thai run industries. We see the same issue in tourist attractions, water parks, animal parks, amusement parks. Profit takes priority over lives. I'm sure we can all find the exceptions but they are in the minority.

Welcome to Asia, welcome to Thailand this will not change much in our lifetimes unless, of course, profit is threatened. Trust in the amulets and good fortune.

[Nereus]

You beat me to it, Bristolian.

The Condo that I have in Bangkok is less than 20 years old. There are two fire escapes, similar to what you have mentioned, both internal but built from concrete. There was no fire alarm system installed in the original construction, but a system was installed a couple of years ago. When it was first installed it was getting tested at least once a month, full on test with alarm bells ringing. That lasted about six months and I cannot remember hearing it since. But the problem with the testing is because there is no notice given out, people just ignore it and will do so if there is ever a real fire. That is if the thing still works!

The fire escapes lead to ground floor doors that are either locked, or controlled with a key card. The doors also swing inwards, and do not have pressure release bars fitted on them, although the internal do have them. I complained about both the doors and testing of the fire alarm, several times, to no avail. In fact, with regards to the doors swinging inwards, I was informed by the "management" that exit doors DO NOT have to swing outwards!

The sad part about this particular Condo is that there are at least two Farangs on the management committee. One of them has been on the committee for at least 14 years that I know about. Every year at the AGM there is never a quorum, with the result that a second meeting is always held where a quorum is not required, and this particular idiot gets himself voted back in every year.

As you have posted, it all comes down to the blasé attitude that is rife in this country.