Ceiling/roof insulation

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doggie
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Post by doggie » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:35 pm

MY FAMILY AND ME ONLY USE OUR HOUSE UNFORTUNATELY FOR HOLIDAYS... AND THEREFOR IF THE FOAM SPRAYING WORKS WOULD BE A
GREAT IDEA FOR US, SO WE WOULDNT WORRY ON ANY LEAKS/DAMAGES ON OUR ROOF WHEN WE ARE AWAY FOR LONG TIME !!

SO WAS SERIOUS CONSIDERING THIS FOAM COMPANY :

http://www.spraymepurfoam.com/index.php


hAVE ANYBODY TRIED IT ON THERE HOUSES OR IS IT A BAD IDEA :

ANY CONCLUSION !!!!!!!

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Post by splitlid » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:47 pm

i wouldnt, for the reasons ive already posted, but,nobody ever listens to me.
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Post by hhfarang » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:25 am

Should that read 60cm hhf ?


Yes, thank you SJ! My home has beams below the first floor, between the two floors, and above the ceiling of the second floor that are 60cm high.

So, since the space between the beams between floors is not really accessible, if I want to use any type of insulation to try to cool the home it could only be the foil mentioned earlier laid on top of the gypsum between the beams in the attic (above the second floor). That probably wouldn't help the first floor much as I think the heat there comes through the walls and glass.

The exterior walls are the standard wide cement blocks that you get here, I think that is 20 cm or about 8 inches.

I think the reason the house collects so much heat is that it faces west and from early afternoon until sunset the hot, hot, hot, sun is shining on the entire front surface which includes 7 double windows, a 2 meter square picture window, plus 1 single door that is half glass and 2 double doors with glass inserts and sidelights. I would never have that much glass facing that direction here again but you have to learn the hard way when you have a developer that is not helpful with that sort of information. :|
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Post by Super Joe » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:08 am

hhfarang wrote:I think the reason the house collects so much heat is that it faces west and from early afternoon until sunset the hot, hot, hot, sun is shining on the entire front surface which includes 7 double windows, a 2 meter square picture window (stick a bloody picture in it then :wink:), plus 1 single door that is half glass and 2 double doors with glass inserts and sidelights. I would never have that much glass facing that direction here again
HHF, why don't you have the glass replaced with this 'heat reflective glass' you can get. Not sure how costly it is but don't think it's too bad, certainly not relative to your little castle :D

SJ

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Post by PeteC » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:13 am

hhfarang wrote:I think the reason the house collects so much heat is that it faces west and from early afternoon until sunset the hot, hot, hot, sun is shining on the entire front surface which includes 7 double windows, a 2 meter square picture window, plus 1 single door that is half glass and 2 double doors with glass inserts and sidelights. I would never have that much glass facing that direction here again but you have to learn the hard way when you have a developer that is not helpful with that sort of information. :|
How about getting some big trees moved in there HHF to block it. I have the same problem with the pool facing west and the water turning the temp of tum yum gong. We found a company who moves and plants large, mature trees and it seems to help. We only have one so far, about 25 years old and shades half the pool starting at about 1400 hours. Pete :cheers:
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Post by johnnyk » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:37 am

If there is room put a couple of big fan palms.
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Post by PeteC » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:56 am

johnnyk wrote:If there is room put a couple of big fan palms.
Yes, good idea. They grow fast as well. They're called 'traveler palms' as they only grow facing east/west. If you plant them north/south they'll eventually turn/twist so the fan is facing east/west. Neat plant and I think the 'east/west' phenomena was discovered by some British African explorer long ago. Pete :cheers:

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Post by Terry » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:07 am

splitlid wrote:i wouldnt, for the reasons ive already posted, but,nobody ever listens to me.
:P :P
That's sad..........very sad

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Post by fft100 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:08 am

if you have downlights in the ceiling, you should be *very* careful about laying insulation directly on top of the ceiling boards.

The lights/transformers (depending whether your bulbs are 240/12 volts) get very hot as it is, and the insulation will prevent the heat escaping and can cause a fire.

I had exactly the same problem in a rented place in Gemany about 6 years ago when the smell of smoke appeared in the hall. after turning off the electrics, i prised open a couple of downlighter sockets, and the transformers (which were very hot) were surrounded by insulation material. The wires had gone black, and i dont think it wouldnt have taken more than a few minutes longer before we would have been testing whether the insulation material was flammable or not....

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Post by hhfarang » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:11 am

I'll look into the reflective glass that you mentioned SJ. I like the tree idea Pete, but I don't think the missus would go for it as it would block the view of the house from the street and you know how Thais are about showing off their property.
if you have downlights in the ceiling, you should be *very* careful about laying insulation directly on top of the ceiling boards.

The lights/transformers (depending whether your bulbs are 240/12 volts) get very hot as it is, and the insulation will prevent the heat escaping and can cause a fire.
That's a very good point as I have a lot of those can type down lights installed in the ceilings.

I think my only heat solution is to sell my home to a Swede or Canadian and buy theirs. Then we'd all be happy (except my missus, of course). They love heat and I love cold! :cheers:
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Post by Nereus » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:38 am

Nereus wrote:There is an ongoing squabble in Australia concerning "foil" roof insulation.
There have been several fatalities from electrocution because of the foil becoming "live", mostly during installation it appears.

At the moment they seem to be blaming the use of metal staples used to secure the "batts" in place. (Australia tends to use "batts", as against rolls of insulation-- a "batt" is a rectangular shaped piece of insulation designed to fit down in between the rafters, or ceiling joist's).

The aluminium foil WILL most definitely conduct electricity, and could become "live" if touching an active conductor. To be electrocuted your body would have to provide a path to earth (ground), or the neutral conductor. Most Australian houses have exposed copper water pipes which provide an ideal earth conductor, as against Thai houses with the almost exclusive use of PVC pipes, but there are other ways of finding a path to earth, such as the exposed ends of re-bar coming in contact.

Another item that should be considered is light fittings, especially down-lights, that have their control transformer, or ballast, exposed in the ceiling space. Not only from a electrocution point of view, but also, as these components get hot, starting a fire is a very real risk.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 52,00.html
????
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Post by crazy88 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:04 pm

Any roofer will tell you that you cannot fix a leak from underneath

This link has some interesting articles for those of you planning to build.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... dd20430e3e


The simple observation of the suns movements and the two main seasonal winds of lom wao and lom pattaya combined with any onshore and offshore winds (thermal changes have a massive effect on winds here,ask any kiteboarder) will help you position the house and windows,sliding doors to take advantage of the natural breezes. You will of course have to work the doors and windows around Thai/chinese superstition lest your money fly away or other such misfortunes. There are other factors of course which several members of this forum,Terry for example, are far more qualified to explain. A simple one for me that was a major factor in my land choice was that as I used to drive down soi 88 I would hit a wall of heat towards the bottom. On a given evening at my then rented home I would put on a sweatshirt wheras eating say in soi 94 or 102 I would be sweating with little air movement around me. I could only see this getting worse as the concrete jungle spread back from petchkasem. All that concrete picks up heat that gets released after sunset with little flow through of air due to the density of the development.

Regarding the developments we created the demand for western style homes here and the developers built them,some very well,some not so well. Eskimos design igloos where they can keep warm,thais design houses where they can keep cool It is not the norm for westerners to design their own houses and build to order,we just buy the one we like. With a little thought,planning and advice you can acheive a beautiful house where you don't use the aircon almost at all with a nice breeze through the house most of the year.

Crazy 88

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Post by Nereus » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:48 am

Here is more on fires;

Roof insulation blamed for 20 house fires in WAANDREW TILLETT and STEPHANIE PAINTER, The West Australian February 13, 2010, 2:15 am

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/br ... res-in-wa/
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Post by crazy88 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:55 pm

I have a simple solution for those who find the house gets a little hot in the afternoon.

Pour yourself a bombay sapphire and tonic over ice and drink it sitting on your terrace or in the swimming pool. Repeat as required until its cooled down and you have forgotten what insulation means let alone how to spell it.


:thumb:

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Post by Nereus » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:00 pm

crazy88 wrote: .....Regarding the developments we created the demand for western style homes here and the developers built them,some very well,some not so well. Eskimos design igloos where they can keep warm,thais design houses where they can keep cool It is not the norm for westerners to design their own houses and build to order,we just buy the one we like. With a little thought,planning and advice you can acheive a beautiful house where you don't use the aircon almost at all with a nice breeze through the house most of the year.
Crazy 88
You cannot blame Farangs for the "Western Style" houses being built. Maybe in places like Hua Hin, Pattaya, Phuket, etc., there are now developments that are aimed at Farangs, but if you look around some of the Moo Baans in Bangkok, they have been building "Western" houses for many years, exclusively for Thais. Some completely ridiculous designs with Gothic Arches, Roman Columns, great expanses of glass. I asked why this was so more than 20 years ago, and the answer was basically that they thought it was "modern"--read face!
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