buying property

Ask here about the pleasures and pitfalls of buying, selling or renting property and real estate in Hua Hin. Building, design and construction topics welcome. Commercial or promotional posts for real estate companies or private properties are forbidden.
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Lev
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Post by Lev »

Lets try and keep specifics out of this thread before it goes the same way all other estate agent threads have gone.
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Post by JW »

Lets put the record well and truly straight - The seller of a property employs a real estate agent to sell/advertise their property, they pay for the service, not the buyer. The price is obvously up to the seller with advice from the agent, they may in the price they decide to add a little to pay for the agents commission. Mike said that their is a problem with the rate of commision here in Hua Hin, INCORRECT ( do you know what it costs to rent a prime location office in Hua Hin and run it?. The going rate is 3% not the 15 or 20 % that was happening in Spain in the 90's, if the seller is wanting to sell fast he may offer the agent a higher level of commission that is "up to them" it gives the agent more incentive to sell that property. In rare cases the seller may offer no commision so the agent will add commission, but most properties are listed with more than one agent so it would be stupid to price it too high cause it will never sell. So if you are buying property using an agent is not really more expensive, if the agent is worth his salt he will listen to your requirements and show you some properties that meet your criteria. We do not all think short term, some of us realize that referral business is the best that exists so we will go out of our way to really take care of our customers so that they recommend our service to their friends.
If people think logically it makes sense, some people think they know all about everything and talk a good story. Why not constrict advice to what you know, its better for all. Rant over.
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Post by Burger »

JW is right, it is the same principal as back in the UK. You want to sell your house, you know the agents commission charges (here they all seem to be charging 3%), it is then up to you as the seller to deceide whether to put the asking price up a little to cover the commission.
The agents here do not, as far as I've seen/heard to date, add anything on to the sellers desired selling price.

From my experience there are some very proffessional agents in Hua Hin, and some that are not quite so 'on the ball'. But I've never found any of them to be unscrupulous in any way.

Then again, you can take the agent out of the estate, but you can't take the estate out of the agent.
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tuktukmike
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Post by tuktukmike »

Hi JW

The way i see it is that the customer dictates the market, if you can find people who are willing to pay the price then they set the level.

If as you say the commision rate is 3% then fine, but i have heard of rates much higher than this.

Seeing that this is your job (selling houses) then i have to accept your figures but maybe now that there are more and more estate agents opening what seems on a weekly basis this could reflect the rates.

I would myself prefer to deal with the owner as i said, the reason as i also said is that if Farang you will have to get a Lawyer to register a company, so why not let him take care of the paperwork at the same time.

One major problem with estate agents is that they tend to overvalue property and drive prices up, but again if people are willing to pay these prices then the market is making its own level.

As for the cost of renting an office in a prime location, that is up to the company and its directors.

If you need a prime site then one would assume it means more business so costs should be kept down by the increased number of sales,

for my self interest the more Farangs that buy then the better for me (sort of) .

Mike.
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Post by johnnyk »

Estate agents don't drive prices.

Anybody can say "the price of this house is X million".

A good agent can and should recommend a price based on what similar homes in similar areas have recently sold for.

Its in an agent's interest to be as accurate as s/he can be in this regard. Too high, it doesn't sell. Too low, the seller is pissed off or another buyer outbids the first one. Either way s/he can lose customers.

What people are willing to pay sets the prices, up or down. Demand, cheap money and disposable income will govern what people are willing to pay.

The price is what someone actually pays for it in real money.
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Post by JW »

Bang on johnnyk.
What a load of rubbish was written earlier in this thread.
Thanks for injecting some more sense! :cheers:
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blobtec
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Post by blobtec »

Hi again
I know for a fact that one estate agent added 300,000 to a price of a property because i was going to buy but checked it out at a different agents and was told that this is a common practice. Nobody can deny that they have to earn a living, but is there any control or monitoring of them over in Thailand or can you just rent a shop and off you go.
Can i also ask where to find a lawer for the transfer process and what sort of fee would i be exspected to pay.
Bob
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Post by JW »

Bob,

If that is the case then you are looking in the wrong agents. Who told you that they had upped the price - them or another agent, or the owner?
I dont think there are any controls on "us". Pensit and Law are good lawyers in Bangkok - do a goggle search for the number. Pm me if you want to chat about your property needs.
Cheers
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Post by caller »

I think griping about agents will always happen. I discuss them with my neighbour in the UK and relate different experiences we have heard about - we're both thinking of longer term plans.

I think its the same in HH and people will have different experiences with different agents.

I thought Jaimes point was quite informative. I would have thought an agent would be interested in seeing and valuing a property and not give the response he gave.

The reality, is that we all want to do the best we can to ensure we don't get ripped off.

I certainly agree its best to view places when you're there and I spent some time riding around looking at developments without agents, to get a feel for what was on offer, how build quality and prices compared (thats the bit I don't get and Johnyk has commented on that on this and other sites).

My one bad experience apart from being collared as I was walking past an agent, was being taken to a site that was too far out for me, I didn't have much choice, being a passenger, only to find later that the agent had an interest there over and above acting as an agent. And I got a hard sell. It just made me suspicious.

I think criticism goes with the territory of being an agent, whether the agent feels its justified or not.

Do they publish the commission rates they charge?
Talk is cheap
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tuktukmike
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Post by tuktukmike »

Well lets be fair then,

There are Estate Agents and there are Estate Agents.

Some good some bad, as with any other consumer type companys.

Do Agents drive up prices, of course they do..

When an agent comes to value your house they know that they work on a commision basis, so as with any company working on this principal the higher the fee the higher the commision.

It is then up to the seller if he accepts the valuation, no different from the UK.

Most agents are happy to keep propertys on their books for at least three months and if no buyers then sure they may suggest lowering the price.

Thailand is to be honest no differant from the uk. anyone can set up an Estate Agents without any formal qualification or training,

As i said if people are happy to pay then that sets the real estate value, when sales stop then its time to drop the prices, simple.

If i was selling a house out here then to be fair i would want the highest price i could get, and i am sure that relates to all of us.

If you think that too low a price would cause a bidding war then great. as this helps the seller to get a higher price, by the way its called Gazzumping.

And its a sure sign of a healthy property market, even if we hate it when it happens to us. :(

Mike.

Must ask dave for help with my spelling. :thumb:
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Post by Burger »

Mike wrote:
When an agent comes to value your house they know that they work on a commision basis, so as with any company working on this principal the higher the fee the higher the commision.
It is then up to the seller if he accepts the valuation, no different from the UK.
It's not like that here Mike, the seller values the property theirselves and tells the agent what he wants the selling price to be. The agent might then give guidance if they think the seller is wildly off with his valuation.
This may not be the rule for EVERY case, but certainly most of them.

Agents do not drive up the prices in Hua Hin, the sellers do.[/quote]
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Post by kevars »

in many countries you can " bid " on a property , you view the property , do your homework and place your bid in a sealed envelope and i believe this is all handled by the lawyer , then its up to the seller , who needs an estate agent ..?
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Post by lomuamart »

I've never bought or sold here, but in the UK if I was selling my property, a price would be agreed with the agent, with their %age to come off that.
If I walked by their office and saw an advertisement in their window, on the internet or in newspapers for a price above that agreed before - or I'd heard about it word of mouth - I'd go spare and instantly withdraw my property from their books.
Is it being suggested that it's any different here?
Would have thought that the vendor and agent would sign some form of contract stipulating the %age of commission based on the asking price. Surely it's a bit difficult for the agent to raise the price if this is the case. There will be legal documents and tax implications afterwards. Possibly, a Thai owner may agree a reserve price and just tell the agent to get what they can as long as above the reserve.
Maybe I'm just naive, but there's nothing to stop me speaking to the purchaser myself, as long I don't drop the price agreed with the agent and therefore affect their cut.
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Post by tuktukmike »

in many countries you can " bid " on a property , you view the property , do your homework and place your bid in a sealed envelope and i believe this is all handled by the lawyer , then its up to the seller , who needs an estate agent .

This is the system used in Scotland, there was talk at one time of introducing a simular system in the UK to stop the amount of gazumping that was going on.

Mike.
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Post by johnnyk »

Many English people have their view of how the process works due to the fact England is still operating under the archaic, primitive and idiotic system that allows ridiculous chains and gazumping to happen.

Western Europe and North America operate under Scottish system.
Both buyer and seller operate through an agent 98% of the time. Its legal but simply easier to find a suitable home through agent listings and showings, its a pain in the arse to try to buy or sell without an agent.

When you see a property of interest, a confidential signed offer prepared in consultation with and by your agent is presented to the seller's agent who reviews it with the seller. If seller signs back a counter offer then things are in negotiation until those two, and only them, reach agreement or not ususally within a specified time period less than 72 hours. No third party can come in at the last minute and gazump with 500 pounds more and throw the whole thing into chaos. If the time limit expires then the property is open once again to offers.

The wise seller does not sign back any unsuitable offer as this then binds him to that buyer until a final offer is accepted or rejected. Other buyers who are impatient may go elsewhere in the interim so best not to tie things up and exclude other potential offers unless the offer is within close reach of what the seller wants.

The estate agents advise and negotiate terms of agreement including amount of deposit, what chattels are included or not, closing date, etc. They write this up in a standard offer form as prescribed by law. Deposit funds are held by a third party in a trust account, either a by lawyer or an estate agent who is qualified and licensed with proper insurance. It is up to the buyer to show he has mortage approval or the finances in place so as not to jerk people around. If buyer cannot show this the deal dies.
In the end it amounts to "show me the money".
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