Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

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HHTel
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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by HHTel » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:15 am

Please be aware of the law in Thailand. It's not dissimilar to the laws in the west regarding husband and wife. I agree with one of the posters in that if you use a 'paper company' then you could get your fingers burnt if the authorities clamp down on that route.

If you're married (legally, not temple) then you have an equal share in marital property (Sin Som Ros). Marital property is defined as anything bought (including land and houses) during the marriage regardless of who bought it and whose name it's in. Personal property (Sin Suan Tua) is defined as anything bought before the marriage or bought with funds owned by either party before the marriage. In this case, should you divorce, then this property is divided 50-50 to both parties. I know there is a form that is signed at the land office stating that the property was bought using your wife's existing funds. This is a land office document only and has no legal standing in court. If one spouse claims the property is hers/his paid for by existing funds before the marriage then it has to be proven.

Even a farang can claim that the property is Sin Suan Tua and was paid for by his own funds acquired before marriage. However, any increase in value of the property becomes Sin Som Ross (marital property). For example, if a farang sells his house in the UK for 5 million baht and uses that money to buy a house in Thailand then it's personal property. If however, they divorce some time later and the property is now worth 10 million baht, the 5 mill is personal and the added value of 5 mill is Sin Som Ross and divided equally.

Another way, if you're not married, is to get a usufruct on the property. Even though the land and property remains owned by your partner, a usufruct gives you temporary ownership for the length of the usufruct (often for life). As the usufructee, you are entitled to take any income from the property and even lease it to a third party. As a usufructee, you have the right to kick out your partner even though she is the valid owner. She is the only one able to sell the property but in reality, who is going to buy a property with a usufruct attached to it?

I'm sure you're all bored now. What I'm trying to get across is the the farang in a relationship is not going to be the loser if they realize the law and act accordingly.

I am the proud 50% owner of over a rai of land and a big house (by court order). It is ordered by the court to be sold but no timescale is enforced. I have been in the house with my children for over 2 years since the court order was given. The order is that the house be sold for not less than 12 mill (after taxes). May get a buyer one day but it's not going to happen soon.

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by JamesWest » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:33 am

'my friend' rents a three bedroom house for 10,000 baht a month and rents the other rooms to bargirls. 'my friend' happy.
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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by Awu » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:47 am

JamesWest wrote:'my friend' rents a three bedroom house for 10,000 baht a month and rents the other rooms to bargirls. 'my friend' happy.
:D :D hahaha, like that one :D :D

For me I don´t understand the thing with buying here when it´s so easy and cheap to rent and you have the freedom to move out when ever you want.
I rent a very nice house close to center at soi 88 in one of the absolutely nicest villages in HH, in this village a house as this goes for 6-7 mill and I pay 25.000 in rent fully furnished with towels, linnen you name it. From this the owner have to pay the gardener 1500 and 2500 to the projekt for communal maintenance so left for him is 21.000 baht. For this he should pay for broken aircons and all other shit it is to pay for when you own a house and with the poor Thai quality it´s a lot of things to pay for..
Me, I just sit on the veranda drinking a cold Leo watching other people working and don't have to bother about sloppy workers etc.
Will never buy a house or condo here.
I invest in new golf clubs now and then and give my gf a piece of gold on her birthdays, that's all you need.

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by HHTel » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:57 pm

I agree with Awu if you are single and no family or partner to leave behind when you die. In my case, I have children etc. When I die, at least they'll have somewhere to live for their well being. With Awu's advice, having rented a place, his partner (unless she can afford the rent) and any children would become homeless. Unless you are single with no responsibility to anyone else, then it's rather selfish. Of course their maybe pots of cash in the bank to bequeath to his loved ones.

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by zeitgeist » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:08 pm

Awu wrote: in this village a house as this goes for 6-7 mill and I pay 25.000 in rent fully furnished with towels, linnen you name it. From this the owner have to pay the gardener 1500 and 2500 to the projekt for communal maintenance so left for him is 21.000 baht. For this he should pay for broken aircons and all other shit it is to pay for when you own a house and with the poor Thai quality it´s a lot of things to pay for..
I'm sure the owner is hoping in 'x' number of years he will sell and get the majority (probably hoping more than) his money back, whilst your rental money has gone.
Different people want different things :cheers:

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by Korkenzieher » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:19 pm

What a novel idea. So how many people do you think manage to profit on selling used houses, over a period of say a decade given the continuous building that is going of, versus the opportunity cost of tying your capital up in an illiquid asset in a foreign currency?

I'd really be quite interested to know - indeed surprised to learn - if it gets even marginally above zero.
Had enough of the trolls. Going to sleep. I may be some time....

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by Farang » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:47 pm

I bought a house some 14 years ago. It now has more than paid itself in rent I've saved. It also has, not accounting the inflation, risen in price by about 2.5-fold.
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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by Korkenzieher » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:13 pm

So net-net, if you discount the rent against the value of the house as it was 14 years ago at 100% you have a 2.84% compounded rate of return on the capital employed. Adding the rent back in brings it to 3.88% (assuming rounding on all figures, and that you didn't have any debt to service). It's OK, and quite reasonable considering what has happened in that time period - but my point is very simply that there's plenty of investments which would have offered you more.

However, as zeitgeist pointed out - different people want different things. While private residence properties may offer many things - security not least - investment performance generally isn't one of them.
Had enough of the trolls. Going to sleep. I may be some time....

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by JamesWest » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:51 pm

you one of my favorite things to do is tell any of the local masage ladies that i live alone in a three bedroom house. you will get the best massage you have ever had.
I really like this forum because there are no personal attacks. All the members contribute in a positive way to my posts.

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by Farang » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:56 pm

Korkenzieher wrote:So net-net, if you discount the rent against the value of the house as it was 14 years ago at 100% you have a 2.84% compounded rate of return on the capital employed. Adding the rent back in brings it to 3.88% (assuming rounding on all figures, and that you didn't have any debt to service). It's OK, and quite reasonable considering what has happened in that time period - but my point is very simply that there's plenty of investments which would have offered you more.

However, as zeitgeist pointed out - different people want different things. While private residence properties may offer many things - security not least - investment performance generally isn't one of them.
Well, well, well, at least you got the reply to your: "I'd really be quite interested to know - indeed surprised to learn - if it gets even marginally above zero."

And yes, I am rather sure that by hindsight I could have made much, much, much better investments than I actually did when buying a villa in Hua Hin. And yes, I am sure there are several fancy ways of calculating how many - nay: any - other way would have been a damned sight better and more sensible investment than the one I made.

There's always one, you know.

And due to my ignorance I am happy just the way I now am.

I wish you the same!
"There's no plausible or convincing reason, certainly no evidential one, to believe that there is such an entity (= deity) and that all observable phenomena, including the cosmological ones... are explicable without the hypothesis; you don't need the assumption."

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by theprice01 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:38 pm

I'm in a similar situation to 'huahin4ever'
My wife is buying a house close to soi 94, she is paying the deposit and i'm paying the mortgage each month. Its a little more then i was paying in rent for a single room in soi 86 so i'm happy enough.
I'm also happy in knowing if we ever split she could more than manage the mortgage payments on her own.
I haven't enquired as to whether my name will be on any paperwork, and frankly, i don't care much either way.
When nosy expats ask how can i live here without working, i reply, 'well, while you worked hard for 50 years, i worked smart for 5 years' :D

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by overkillxx » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:05 am

I know this post is ancient, but its puzzling to me. As per this:

https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/ ... pouse.html

My understanding is that if you marry a thai & buy a property together she has absolute legal rights over the property. You can't contest this unless you start doing something fancy such as placing the actual house under your name, but the land remains under hers.

But from reading this thread many are saying that by marrying a Thai & buying the property, if the marriage goes bad the foreigner is entitled to 50 percent of the value of the property. Am I missing something? That completely contradicts the link I provided above.

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by StevePIraq » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:16 pm

overkillxx wrote:I know this post is ancient, but its puzzling to me. As per this:

https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/ ... pouse.html

My understanding is that if you marry a thai & buy a property together she has absolute legal rights over the property. You can't contest this unless you start doing something fancy such as placing the actual house under your name, but the land remains under hers.

But from reading this thread many are saying that by marrying a Thai & buying the property, if the marriage goes bad the foreigner is entitled to 50 percent of the value of the property. Am I missing something? That completely contradicts the link I provided above.
If married all property purchased no matter who finances the purchase is considered a 50/50 asset and upon divorce is split 50/50
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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by HHTel » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:04 pm

In my experience the declaration signed at the land office is not recognised/accepted in a court of law. Regardless of who buys the property during the marriage, it becomes 'sin som ros', i.e. marital assets.

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Re: Farang buying a house with a Thai lady

Post by laphanphon » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:18 pm

I know 2 people who went through the court system for divorce and assets settlement, and it was about a 50 / 50 split, (Equity / value of possessions) as lined out in Thai law. Pretty much the same as most western countries.

When purchasing land, it is hers / his, Thai national owned. The rest is personal property.

Now the actually court order to sell and value of, and disbursement of funds, that can get a bit sticky. So nice to have one or the other ready to buy out the other, with full transfer to, then sell ASAP.

A lot of variables, and of course ones safety to think about. My first Thai wife, after I kicked her out of the house, in her village, I was looking over my shoulder for that helmeted MB driver.........LOL Luckily, she wasn't well like herself, so didn't need to worry about family 'evicting' me.

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