How not to get ripped off?
How not to get ripped off?
How is it that everybody is saying to not buy a house with a 30 year lease renewable for 2 more 30's. If I have a lawyer in BKK look over the papers how can I lose out...Please be specific!
ITKMAN,
I think the grey area is that the 2 no. 30 year options to extend may not be enforcable under law, IF certain circumstances arise.
As I understand it if the lessor sells the land to someone else, or dies and the land goes to their heirs, then the new freehold owner is only legally bound to the original 30 year lease and not the 2 no. options. This is because the 2 no. options were a private contractual agreement between the original two parties and as such are not recognised under the land law.
In a nut shell, if this is the case then you can only really plan for the initial 30 years.
Please note this is only my understanding when I looked into it, and I opted for the Limited Company route instead. As you've said already, you need to check it out with a 'proper' Bangkok law firm and they should advise you off any such pitfalls.
Taking it too the extreme, if the original lessor does not want to honour his 30 year extension, can he not simply sell the land to his brother, his brother is not bound by the extension so you vacate, next day brother buys it back again
Ask your lawyer if you can put a clause in the original 30 year lease that says any future freehold owners, must also sign new extention option contracts with you. Not sure if this is legally possible, as then it is not strictly a 30 year lease!?
Good luck,
Burger
I think the grey area is that the 2 no. 30 year options to extend may not be enforcable under law, IF certain circumstances arise.
As I understand it if the lessor sells the land to someone else, or dies and the land goes to their heirs, then the new freehold owner is only legally bound to the original 30 year lease and not the 2 no. options. This is because the 2 no. options were a private contractual agreement between the original two parties and as such are not recognised under the land law.
In a nut shell, if this is the case then you can only really plan for the initial 30 years.
Please note this is only my understanding when I looked into it, and I opted for the Limited Company route instead. As you've said already, you need to check it out with a 'proper' Bangkok law firm and they should advise you off any such pitfalls.
Taking it too the extreme, if the original lessor does not want to honour his 30 year extension, can he not simply sell the land to his brother, his brother is not bound by the extension so you vacate, next day brother buys it back again
Ask your lawyer if you can put a clause in the original 30 year lease that says any future freehold owners, must also sign new extention option contracts with you. Not sure if this is legally possible, as then it is not strictly a 30 year lease!?
Good luck,
Burger
Last edited by Burger on Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
poll
The only way to buy a house here if you do not want it in the name of a Thai national is through the ltd co route. it is not 100% safe I agree but there must be thousands of homes here purchased this way and it is a government law. At the end of the day this country relies on trading with the rest of the world and has to be reasonably carefull in how it handles these types of situations. All the other schemes it seems are dreamt up by people practising law but not actually solicitors. I heard of one yesterday where the freeholder has granted a 30 year renewable lease but the leaseholder must pay all the water and electricity bills to the freeholder with the freeholder issuing the bills.
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tuktukmike
- Guru
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Of course Thailand wants to trade with the rest of the world.
But sometimes i am amazed at the arrogance of Farangs who live here.
Fact, Your home country will not be outraged if the Thais decide to kick you out of your house for circumventing the law.
If you think i am wrong then contact your own Embassy and ask the question, The law is quite precise and we all know it in Black and White.
The company route was never set up to allow farangs to buy land by the Thais, its just a loophole we have found.
The powers already exist to cancel all these 1mill non operating companys at any time that the powers that be decide.
Just answer these questions if you get a visit from the relivant authority.
1. Give the names and phone numbers of all your current Thai directors.
2. Show in your books the amount of salary you pay to the Thai directors of your company.
3. show genuine trade that your company has been involved in within the previous 12 months.
Still think your Goverment will be outraged, Think again.
Mike.
BTW, what on earth is the connection with world trade and farangs owning land. You really think the large multinations will pull out if a few farangs lose their homes?
But sometimes i am amazed at the arrogance of Farangs who live here.
Fact, Your home country will not be outraged if the Thais decide to kick you out of your house for circumventing the law.
If you think i am wrong then contact your own Embassy and ask the question, The law is quite precise and we all know it in Black and White.
The company route was never set up to allow farangs to buy land by the Thais, its just a loophole we have found.
The powers already exist to cancel all these 1mill non operating companys at any time that the powers that be decide.
Just answer these questions if you get a visit from the relivant authority.
1. Give the names and phone numbers of all your current Thai directors.
2. Show in your books the amount of salary you pay to the Thai directors of your company.
3. show genuine trade that your company has been involved in within the previous 12 months.
Still think your Goverment will be outraged, Think again.
Mike.
BTW, what on earth is the connection with world trade and farangs owning land. You really think the large multinations will pull out if a few farangs lose their homes?
Good Stuff Mates
Now, I have a thai lawyere talking Amity Corp for U.S. people and one saying I can't be done....Anybody here have an amity corp?
Tuk Tuk Mike.
You have a good point, still this is the best way to buy property in LOS.
Found out that if I use the company to buy and export goods to europe
for a small amount of money,pay tax.
Salery to my director, then I would be pretty safe.
What is important is that the company shows circulations of money during the year.
You have a good point, still this is the best way to buy property in LOS.
Found out that if I use the company to buy and export goods to europe
for a small amount of money,pay tax.
Salery to my director, then I would be pretty safe.
What is important is that the company shows circulations of money during the year.
are we baieng ripped off
Hi Mike, I to am amazed at the arrogance of some of the farangh,as I stated in a reply about companies being investigated. At the end of the day we are guests in someone else’s home, and we should never forget that.
The UK government is never actually outraged by anything, it just talks about happenings and sits on its backside making polite noises, Remember though that the English make up a very small proportion of the farangh.
The company is a legal entity and can legally be used for the purpose for which we use it for; certain local government officials interpret the laws, as they do in all cases, in different ways. Can you tell me of one case where a farangh has had his land, and it is only the land we cannot own in our own name, being taken from him because it is owned by a 49/51 company?
Whenever a law is commissioned in any country the civil servants always use the rule that you always leave a backdoor open in case you make a mistake. Most western governments change the goal posts at a whim, in particular President Bush and Mr. Blair.
Quote;
Just answer these questions if you get a visit from the relevant authority.
1. Give the names and phone numbers of all your current Thai directors.
2. Show in your books the amount of salary you pay to the Thai directors of your company.
3. show genuine trade that your company has been involved in within the previous 12 months.
Can you quote 1 case of this happening in respect of a farangh 49/51 company and in respect of an investigation into that company for owning land, trading or non trading.
Thailand is set on a course of attempting to become a world hub for trading. Most of those multinationals have huge investments from around the world; any form of instability will harm that plan, as was the case with the recent uproar over Thaksin, nothing to do with the farangh and that has delayed many large projects here.
I appreciate that some people in Thailand have had bad experiences with the authorities here, but I believe that these are isolated incidents. I still firmly believe that it is safe to buy property in Thailand and that the company route is the safe way to do it and until somebody shows me proof positive that the Thai authorities are disallowing this then I will advise everybody to do the same.
The UK government is never actually outraged by anything, it just talks about happenings and sits on its backside making polite noises, Remember though that the English make up a very small proportion of the farangh.
The company is a legal entity and can legally be used for the purpose for which we use it for; certain local government officials interpret the laws, as they do in all cases, in different ways. Can you tell me of one case where a farangh has had his land, and it is only the land we cannot own in our own name, being taken from him because it is owned by a 49/51 company?
Whenever a law is commissioned in any country the civil servants always use the rule that you always leave a backdoor open in case you make a mistake. Most western governments change the goal posts at a whim, in particular President Bush and Mr. Blair.
Quote;
Just answer these questions if you get a visit from the relevant authority.
1. Give the names and phone numbers of all your current Thai directors.
2. Show in your books the amount of salary you pay to the Thai directors of your company.
3. show genuine trade that your company has been involved in within the previous 12 months.
Can you quote 1 case of this happening in respect of a farangh 49/51 company and in respect of an investigation into that company for owning land, trading or non trading.
Thailand is set on a course of attempting to become a world hub for trading. Most of those multinationals have huge investments from around the world; any form of instability will harm that plan, as was the case with the recent uproar over Thaksin, nothing to do with the farangh and that has delayed many large projects here.
I appreciate that some people in Thailand have had bad experiences with the authorities here, but I believe that these are isolated incidents. I still firmly believe that it is safe to buy property in Thailand and that the company route is the safe way to do it and until somebody shows me proof positive that the Thai authorities are disallowing this then I will advise everybody to do the same.
Good Info
It is always my nature to do business where I live. If HH works out I'll buy a car and Motor Bike there, get insurance, bank and do my buying thru an agent (with BKK lawyers looking on and getting much info from the US Embassy). Thanks for the encouagment. No I just have to check out this place as a potential residence. Very good point on living near town....
Exactly right Clive, there are no cases of this happening.
The government are aware of all the foreign investment, if they wanted to close any 'loop-holes' or change any laws, they would have done so by now.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense know the government welcomes the foreign money flooding in, it only benefits the country.
Limited companies are operating within the law, not circumventing it.
However for anyone not following the rules of the ammended Land Code then the Land Code states that they will be given 180 days to 365 days to dispose of their land. That person could then simply lease the house back again from a Thai national for the next 30 years.
As we've all said before, it's a personal choice and one that you must feel comfortable with investing your money. I'm much happier making money on property rather than giving it away to a landlord
Burger
The government are aware of all the foreign investment, if they wanted to close any 'loop-holes' or change any laws, they would have done so by now.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense know the government welcomes the foreign money flooding in, it only benefits the country.
Limited companies are operating within the law, not circumventing it.
However for anyone not following the rules of the ammended Land Code then the Land Code states that they will be given 180 days to 365 days to dispose of their land. That person could then simply lease the house back again from a Thai national for the next 30 years.
As we've all said before, it's a personal choice and one that you must feel comfortable with investing your money. I'm much happier making money on property rather than giving it away to a landlord
Burger
Last edited by Burger on Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In answer to the question of this thread "How not to get ripped off?"
Never spend more than you can afford to lose.
As said before I wouldn't put my life savings into a country that treats foreigners as third class citizens however I would risk a little in order to make a little.
Never spend more than you can afford to lose.
As said before I wouldn't put my life savings into a country that treats foreigners as third class citizens however I would risk a little in order to make a little.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
if you dont kiss beautifull ladies you dont know how it is so I think its better try to invest now because this is only the beginning of a raising market -but buy near the sea to feel safer.Then you have more potential
customer when you decide to sell it.
But your advices is honest and true.
the man who lives today will not know about tomorrow and thats makes the life interesting.
customer when you decide to sell it.
But your advices is honest and true.
the man who lives today will not know about tomorrow and thats makes the life interesting.
This has all been covered before, bottom line is as Buksi says, dont invest more than you can afford to lose, thats just common sense.
TTM,
You really know how to paint a black picture, i cant understand why do business here if your opinion is so bad regarding the laws here in Thailand.
As many have commented before, if your company pays the necessary taxes and is formed correctly you are safe. Why dont you seem able to take that on board.
TTM,
You really know how to paint a black picture, i cant understand why do business here if your opinion is so bad regarding the laws here in Thailand.
As many have commented before, if your company pays the necessary taxes and is formed correctly you are safe. Why dont you seem able to take that on board.
TTM,
The thing is Mike we are all entitled to our opinions on the subject, and your opinion on what may happen in the future is useful to the posters that are asking the questions, but do you really need to jump in everytime with your imflammatory comments. All that seems to happen then is everyone gets defensive, shouting matches start and the thread becomes a waste of time, which I don't think is the idea of the forum.
Here the original poster asked a very important question about leasing property, me and a couple of others gave him some helpful advice, including contacting a proper solicitor and you dive in with stuff like:
If we all keep it sensible some useful advice can be given to those thinking about purchasing property here.
Burger
The thing is Mike we are all entitled to our opinions on the subject, and your opinion on what may happen in the future is useful to the posters that are asking the questions, but do you really need to jump in everytime with your imflammatory comments. All that seems to happen then is everyone gets defensive, shouting matches start and the thread becomes a waste of time, which I don't think is the idea of the forum.
Here the original poster asked a very important question about leasing property, me and a couple of others gave him some helpful advice, including contacting a proper solicitor and you dive in with stuff like:
You can make all your points without stirring up people's emotions."the arrogance of Farangs who live here"
"if the Thais decide to kick you out of your house"
"powers already exist to cancel all these 1mill non operating companys"
"what on earth is the connection with world trade and farangs owning land"
If we all keep it sensible some useful advice can be given to those thinking about purchasing property here.
Burger