Krup and Ka

[Korkenzieher]

and 'gell' in Germany. isn't it, gel?

[SunandFun]

I go with number 1. I remember when I first came, I heard a female use Ka and then I started using it too. (A bit too anxious to be a part of the culture.) Although innocent, once I found that was for Ladies, I was embarrassed.
In English, when we are "stumbling" with what to say, it is common to hear the untrained use too many "umms" and "ahhs". It is best to just pause and gather your thoughts, then continue, than to fill the void with distractions that actually has the listener lose focus and attention on the conversation and start thinking about how many times they have said "umm or ahh".
But knowing Krup/Ka is a politeness gives it an additional charm IMHO.

[Takiap]

I think it's just a question of context and intonation, John. The longer one may be a bit more polite, and is emphasising agreement as well as other things. It can also be a bit more "put on".

Krup/ka is more than a polite irrelevance - it is often used on it's own where we in English would be saying "yes" or "okay".

Her: "Don't forget to buy some milk"
Me: "Khaaap" (longer than usual because its meaning is "You really do think I'm a senile old fart, don't you?")

100% correct DM

[Takiap]

I think there are occasions when a woman can use "krup" although not 100% sure on that.

I always wonder if saying "f*ck you krup" would be considered polite?

Only if you draw it out at the end...lol.

[margaretcarnes]

I think it's just a question of context and intonation, John. The longer one may be a bit more polite, and is emphasising agreement as well as other things. It can also be a bit more "put on".

Krup/ka is more than a polite irrelevance - it is often used on it's own where we in English would be saying "yes" or "okay".

Her: "Don't forget to buy some milk"
Me: "Khaaap" (longer than usual because its meaning is "You really do think I'm a senile old fart, don't you?")

100% correct DM

I understand that use as a 'yes' or 'okay' but used to think that the word for 'yes' or agreement was more like 'da' - or is that just a regional variation?

[Takiap]

MC, I asked my missus about this a while back, and the "Da" (actually "Ja") is it seems, purely a slang version of "Ka". It's much like they pronounce an "R" as an "L".


You'll also notice that many men, and women for that matter,simply make a "grunting" sound instead of Krup.

[PeteC]

I thought "Ja" was an informal term of endearment, kind of like when we call someone "honey" in the west? Pete

[Nereus]

I thought "Ja" was an informal term of endearment, kind of like when we call someone "honey" in the west? Pete

Well, I do not speak much Thai, but that is also what I was told, as in: "Nong Ja".

[dtaai-maai]

MC, I asked my missus about this a while back, and the "Da" (actually "Ja") is it seems, purely a slang version of "Ka".

Yep, that's how I understood it, but Mrs D-M uses it a lot and has just told me that it (Ja) has a stronger element of respect to it - she'd be more likely to use it when replying to an older person.
Having said that, most Thai people in my experience (and most farang as well) don't really have that deep an understanding of the mechanics of their own language.


EDIT: As far as the endearment thing goes, when you address someone, you use the name (or some other term like tirak or smelly) followed by krup/ka (or ja presumably).
So "Nong Ja" would be a female addressing a younger person.

I'm certainly no expert either, but that's how I see it.

[Korkenzieher]

"Ja" is tone dependent. I have been encouraged to use it to mean 'yes'. Isan females clearly use it as a sort of 'ok' style (like yeah, yeah, yeah) acknowledgement at the end of sentences or phrases when they are the listener. Here's what I have:

จะ (auxiliary). Shall, will, would.
จ้ะ (interjection) yes! - mainly (my emph.) for female speakers [note mai-toh]
จ๊ะ (participle) used in questions to urge or suggest. [note mai-trii]

I think (but don't have proof) that the longer usage - like 'Nong Jaaaaa' is northern dialect, rather than Thai Glang.

Edit: a few minutes research throws this up:

จ้า - Jah, as the polite particle in the north. In Thai Glang it means Bright or Strong.

[Pleng]

Sorry for the semi-gave digging of this thread but I have a couple of hours to kill so thought I'd put my input in here.

In conversation, I like it. It just kind of feels good to say it, and it also gives you a semi-second to compose your next sentence in your head.

On the TV, I hate it. When you have a show that's presented by two people. You have the person on the left doing the explaining (reading the news story, talking about the band thats about to play, whatever), and the person to the right randomly saying 'kaa' or 'krab' every few seconds. That I find really pointless; and it irritates me something rotten!

[Noz]

I think (but don't have proof) that the longer usage - like 'Nong Jaaaaa' is northern dialect, rather than Thai Glang.

Edit: a few minutes research throws this up:

จ้า - Jah, as the polite particle in the north. In Thai Glang it means Bright or Strong.

I think in the north, it's "jao" (เจ้า) that's used as the polite particle for a female speaker. As in "sawasdee jao" (สวัสดีเจ้า) as opposed to "sawasdee ka" (สวัสดีค่ะ).

[Korkenzieher]

Hmm. I'm certainly aware of Sawatdee jah! in the north, but Jow to me is an issan word used for 'you' instead of 'khun', but with the difference that it pluralises which khun does not. I don't think I have come across sawatdee jow. Which area have you heard this being used - maybe more to the northeast rather than issan?

so: Khun mi bahn yai - you have a big house is the same in singular in plural,
but: Jow mi bahn yai becomes (I believe) Moo-jow mi bahn yai in the plural.

[deepee]

Has anyone else noticed recently that many young females ie 15 to 25 year olds are dropping the k in ka and saying "ha" instead by rolling the tongue tip back in their mouths?. Now these are Bangkokians and some are family and I thought it may have been linked to them wearing braces.Watching tv last night and the young actresses were not wearing them but there were lots of ha's going around.what's brought this on ?

[Noz]

Hmm. I'm certainly aware of Sawatdee jah! in the north, but Jow to me is an issan word used for 'you' instead of 'khun', but with the difference that it pluralises which khun does not. I don't think I have come across sawatdee jow. Which area have you heard this being used - maybe more to the northeast rather than issan?

There are many uses of 'jow'. Go here http://www.thai-language.com/dict and type เจ้า in the look-up box in the top left to see them. What you said about a substitute for "khun" in Isaan and what I said about the polite particle in the north are both on the list at the end:

pronoun [Isaan dialect] [2nd person singular pronoun] you
interjection [Northern Dialect] [word added by a female speaker to the end of every statement to convey politeness; equivalent of ค่ะ