NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by Big Boy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:49 pm

I still pay UK taxes as well :?
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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by Vital Spark » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:49 pm

I watched an interesting documentary about this a few months ago. Medical tourists from India have been (are still?) taking advantage of the NHS. Some Indian doctors and administrators of hospitals have made a nice little earner getting their 'patients' free treatment.

It's the same old story that the few spoil it for the majority (i.e. those of us who have paid taxes for a number of years).

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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by caller » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:50 pm

You are entitled to free NHS treatment in the UK from day 1 if you are returning for permanent residence. You will also get free treatment in the event of an emergency if not returning for permanent residence.

The NHS has been widely defrauded for years, both internally and externally and it's quite a surprise to learn robust checks to verify entitlement are still not in place.

Midsman's Doctor is defrauding the NHS for knowingly treating someone for free under the guise of the NHS, who he knows is not entitled to free NHS treatment, assuming he is still a registered patient at the surgery, contrary to the rules and for which he will receive payment for.
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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by Vital Spark » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:01 pm

My appendix decided to burst when we were visiting family in Scotland in 2000. I'd already been living in Thailand for over 2 and a half years. I gave my Mum's address as my home address. I didn't get charged.

Thank goodness it happened where it did. I don't think I'd be here now if I had had to go to a government hospital here.

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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by Midsman » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:39 pm

More like using common sense not defrauding. I think there are more serious issues out there of defrauding than one blood test a year.

Are you so squeaky clean ??

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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by MLS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:08 pm

Probably not that relevant to this thread at this point p - or much comfort to us expats from the UK when we can’t get the NHS benefits for hutch we've paid our NI contributions - but just for some context I do think it's a bit of a red herring when your typical Daily Mail/Sun/Telegraph reader bangs on about 'foreigners' bleeding the NHS dry, as apparently that’s simply not true according to recent stats (see the link within this article below). I understand from NHS info the year before that medical tourism in the UK in 2016 (which included overseas expats returning for treatment) cost the NHS less than its stationery bill. Anyway, not sure if I can post this but here’s the article from this week:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -to-double

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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by GroveHillWanderer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:58 pm

Spitfire wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:00 pm
Considering the ridiculous people who they give welfare to in general in the UK, it's shocking that there are restrictions on any UK passport holders regarding this, as if you hold a real passport for the UK you should get it.

Lost it's way imo. It's the NHS....not the selective NHS
The same restrictions apply to all nationalities, not just UK citizens. If you're not 'ordinarily resident' or intending to reside in the UK (and eligible to do so) you're not entitled to free NHS treatment, no matter where you come from.

In addition, people who apply for visas to the UK have been required to pay an NHS surcharge as part of their visa application since 6 April, 2015. The surcharge is currently £150 per year for a student visa and £200 per year for all other visa and immigration applications.

Edit: Having checked a few websites, including some UK government ones, it seems it's not as black and white as I thought. Although only those who are 'ordinarily resident' are guaranteed free NHS treatment, others are not necessarily required to pay. It is up to the heath care provider to determine whether payment is needed or not.There are also a number of things that are free to all patients regardless of residence, such as accident and emergency treatment.

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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by caller » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:41 pm

Midsman wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:39 pm
More like using common sense not defrauding. I think there are more serious issues out there of defrauding than one blood test a year.

Are you so squeaky clean ??
Well, I'm sure you're right about there being more serious issues out there, in fact, I know there are. But it's still a potential fraud and they all add up. If this came to light, he'd be fair game for a full investigation and no, common sense clearly doesn't apply, as the good Doctor could be jeopardising his career as many other Doctors have found out. And no, I'm not so squeaky clean, just a bit rough around the edges. :)
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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by caller » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:15 pm

MLS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:08 pm
I understand from NHS info the year before that medical tourism in the UK in 2016 (which included overseas expats returning for treatment) cost the NHS less than its stationery b
But what's the value of it's stationery bill?

The Guardian's source document is itself based on work by others who concede the value of the fraud is very 'rough', hardly surprising when you read what it is based on.

It's very difficult to identify an accurate cost of fraud, although much research has been carried out in this field in the last few years. Basically, most will use the value of the frauds actually identifed and then extrapolate that data to identify an estimated value for the year and then compare like for like with the following year, to see if the value of fraud has gone up or down.

Then you have to factor in political interference.
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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:44 am

MLS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:08 pm
Probably not that relevant to this thread at this point p - or much comfort to us expats from the UK when we can’t get the NHS benefits for hutch we've paid our NI contributions - but just for some context I do think it's a bit of a red herring when your typical Daily Mail/Sun/Telegraph reader bangs on about 'foreigners' bleeding the NHS dry, as apparently that’s simply not true according to recent stats (see the link within this article below). I understand from NHS info the year before that medical tourism in the UK in 2016 (which included overseas expats returning for treatment) cost the NHS less than its stationery bill. Anyway, not sure if I can post this but here’s the article from this week:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -to-double
I don't think those Telegraph readers are talking about temporary migrants/health tourists. Oh, and you forgot the Express:

"since 2000, Migration Watch claims that immigrants and births to foreign-born parents is responsible for 85 per cent of population growth.

Alp Mehmet, vice chair of Migration Watch, said: “These figures make clear yet again, that rapid population growth continues to be driven by immigration.

Over the next few years immigration will move increasingly towards being the sole reason for the capital’s burgeoning population, which has serious implications for public services such as maternity and GP practices, as well as primary school places in due course."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73874 ... K-migrants

Just for context, of course. :roll:

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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by VincentD » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:10 pm

Vital Spark wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:01 pm
My appendix decided to burst when we were visiting... I don't think I'd be here now if I had had to go to a government hospital here.
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On a slight tangent here, but healthcare nonetheless.
The government hospitals here can be a bit hit or miss, but you do get good and timely medical treatment. Take my recent case, for example.
I have Government Social Welfare Insurance (ประกันสังคม). This is pretty much standard if you are employed in Thailand,employer needs to deduct from your salary. Maximum contribution is still 750 baht per month though they are proposing an increase to 1,000 baht per month. Anyway..
Mid-December, I felt lots of aching around my neck and shoulder area. Got worse if I pushed on, even walking started getting difficult. On Saturday, the 23rd, it got so bad my arms started aching and I started to feel dizzy. I knew the symptoms but was trying to avoid confronting them, having just passed a full medical including a treadmill test just in August. Never mind. Once settled down, I took a short drive (I know, I know) to where I was registered. It was early afternoon, and I got to see a GP. I explained the symptoms and said I'd appreciate it if he could at least look into my concerns.
Within ten minutes, I had had an ECG done. Called in again, he says, chest x-ray. Okay. Called in second time. Frowns. Need a blood test. Okay. Went to have a late lunch while waiting. When I come back, I'm told to sit in a wheelchair and they trundle me off to the heart specialist. He wards me for observation and I'm in hospital over Christmas :(
They do tests ans schedule me for a dye test two weeks later. Cost so far, zero.

Go for a dye test, cardiologist looks at me and says 'three blocked arteries. We'll have to do one now'. And half an hour later, had my first stent inserted. Another day in semi-ICU, and I am sent home. Total cost? 100 baht.
Earlier this week, went for the remaining two, cost also around that.

They have a high standard of medicine here, lots of people come here as it is a lot cheaper and faster than doing it in their own countries.

I am glad I was here and not in my home country when it happened. It would have cost me two arms and a leg..
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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by Big Boy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:35 pm

I also have no problem with public hospitals here. About 4 years ago I had a serious leg problem, and went to a private hospital. £6K, 2 operations, 4 inpatient and multiple outpatient visits later, it was still touch and go whether I kept my leg. In the end I fixed it myself with a tube of cream - cost a couple of hundred Baht. The doc was furious when he saw my healed leg.

A couple of weeks ago, having learned an important lesson, I had exactly the same thing happen again. I went straight to Hua Hin Hospital. It was a weekend, so no 200 Baht express service. 3 consultations, a blood test, 3 x-rays, a small operation and a bucketful of medication I am fully recovered - cost 1600 Baht.

What has this got to do with the NHS I hear you say? Basically, IMHO our Hua Hin Hospital is leaps and bounds better than the NHS. OK, this was a minor problem, but I've been for numerous blood tests in the UK - go to see your GP in a couple of weeks for the result. In this case, everything done and sorted in a couple of hours, and I was able to drive home for lunch. The NHS can not match that. Nothing against NHS nurses and doctors - it's the system.

Maybe if it's a serious condition, take your chances on returning to the UK to get it treated. However, seriously consider the cost. If treated on NHS, yes, it's free. However, you have the cost of getting to the UK, accommodation, etc to consider. You could get back there and find yourself denied free treatment.
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Re: NHS treatment back in the UK if resident in HH?

Post by STEVE G » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:20 pm

caller wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:50 pm
You are entitled to free NHS treatment in the UK from day 1 if you are returning for permanent residence. You will also get free treatment in the event of an emergency if not returning for permanent residence.
I've just been reading up on this, ( You never know such information might be required. ) and this bit from the Department of Health is interesting:

“A person will be “ordinarily resident…” in the UK when that residence is lawful, adopted, voluntary, and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, whether of short or long duration.”

I wonder how "short duration" and being "settled" are resolved. If I moved into my brothers house, I could be "settled" on the sofa with a cup of tea within a very short time indeed!

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