Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Medical issues, doctors, dentists, opticians and hospitals in Hua Hin and Thailand.
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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by Takiap » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:28 am

oakdale160 wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:17 am
If there is an immunological basis then it is logical that detox may help, but in osteo-arthritis where it is a purely mechanical problem of bone rubbing on bone then it can have no benefits.
For Hips and Knees, replacement is the answer but you cannot replace dozens of minor joints.

I have absolutely no idea at all whether detox would/could help, but when it comes to reversal of osteoarthritis, I think you may be slightly off the mark..............

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6344622


I have not read the entire paper, but it might be worth reading, and at least it is from a 100% credible site.


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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:09 pm

Takiap wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:28 am
oakdale160 wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:17 am
If there is an immunological basis then it is logical that detox may help, but in osteo-arthritis where it is a purely mechanical problem of bone rubbing on bone then it can have no benefits.
For Hips and Knees, replacement is the answer but you cannot replace dozens of minor joints.

I have absolutely no idea at all whether detox would/could help, but when it comes to reversal of osteoarthritis, I think you may be slightly off the mark..............

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6344622


I have not read the entire paper, but it might be worth reading, and at least it is from a 100% credible site.


:cheers:
Seems no way to read the paper but there's no evidence of any hard science in the excerpt. I can't find anything at all on this JH Bland who gave seminars and published papers on a lot of topics 30 years ago and more. The fact the NCBI have collected his papers doesn't count for a huge amount in itself, I guess.

Looks like it could be quackery to me. Cartilage has no blood supply. It does not regrow in the body. There are some treatments being investigated which 'might' slow the rate of bone and cartilage degeneration. But that's not reversal of tissue which has been destroyed.

Scientists are trying to use stem cells for stuff like this, but the science is nowhere near useful yet, as far as I know.

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by J.J.B. » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:02 pm

Although cartillage doesn’t have a blood supply it can and does regrow, albeit slowly. The suffix ‘-itis’ simply means inflammation, as in tonsilitis, bronchitis, rhinitis, etc. Inflammation is a cell-mediated process and with rheumatoid arthritis in particular, the immune system is attacking the body and known as an autoimmune response. Inflammation is characterised by four basic conditions: heat, pain, redness and swelling.

General analgesia, or pain relief, is the first treatment most people experience and the majority of these drugs act on histamine receptors. These drugs are very broad in their action, however, and act on histamine receptors all over the body that can cause undesirable side-effects, especially with prolonged use. Treatments in the last couple of decades have moved towards inhibiting the genesis of the immune response, which is why stem-cell treatment holds promise, to somehow ‘reset’ the system. There are some very effective drugs in a class called ‘biologics’ that are derived from animal cell products, like antibodies, which seem to be a step in the right direction.

Etanercept and infliximab are two biologics licensed to treat rheumatoid arthritis. Historically they have been very expensive but also, unlike more traditional ‘small molecule’ drugs, very difficult to make, which has sustained their high price since even in the event of patent expiry, other companies found it hard to make generic copies and even harder to show licensing authorities they were as effective. The global health community has got its act together recently and agreed a framework to manufacture and validate biologic drugs and new ‘biosimilars’ (these are not drugs in the traditional sense) are appearing on the market at lower prices; although still high. With Thailand being a big player in traditional, chemical generic drug manufacture, it will be some time before it can compete in the biosimilar space and it’s unlikely you will find biologic treatments outside of Bangkok or other high-priced centres, but there’s no harm in asking.

As for detox treatments, there is always an argument for being more healthy, avoiding alcohol, losing weight and being fitter. But it’s a state of mind, rather than a treatment, and as CamelJockey says, doesn’t reverse anything, even though it might make you think it is or help reduce the progression of disease.
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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:18 pm

J.J.B. wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:02 pm
Although cartillage doesn’t have a blood supply it can and does regrow, albeit slowly.
Not for adults as I understand it. I searched to reinforce what i thought I knew and came across a few things like this:

"Cartilage renews through adolescence, said Kjaer, but "you're left with what you have after you're 16 [years old]."

Previous studies have suggested that injury may spur cartilage to self-repair. "That speculation can now be totally abolished by this data. They show that the tissue turnover is not larger in people with osteoarthritis".

The findings help explain the limited success of cartilage transplant and stem cell therapy for osteoarthritis."
https://www.aaas.org/news/joint-cartila ... bon-dating

I also found this site, which is my definition of quackery or close to it. It's by some people trying to sell diet and exercise books.
http://quantitativemedicine.net/2017/04 ... p-by-step/

I suppose we have to face the fact that there are 'doctors' (people with licences to practise, anyway) in the USA who will say anything. They seem akin to statisticians: you can always find one who will say the opposite of what the others say.

Oh well....

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:36 pm

On possible future ways of slowing the progress of (but not reversing) early/mid stage osteoarthritis:

'Bottom line, for now? "Although the data does not show that these treatments are going to prevent or cure arthritis, the agents may be able to slow the progression of arthritis, which we don't yet have the ability to do,"'

https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/k ... -cartilage

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:25 pm

After a lot of reading I'm inclined to believe using curcumin (found in turmeric and other foodstuffs) can reduce inflammation in rheumatism/arthritis. It has been used for centuries in traditional medicines. The problem seems to be in delivering it in a form which is digestible (its bioavailability), it seems that it’s quickly metabolized by the liver and intestinal walls, and so doesn't reach the bloodstream. Pepper contains an ingredient (piperine) that helps absorption of turmeric. Other means are also possible, eg. with fat. I guess in a nice lamb curry it's effective (if you want curry every day....).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3918523/

http://healthyhabitshub.com/the-real-pr ... -benefits/

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by handdrummer » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:17 pm

LifeExtension
Super Bio-Curcumin
400mg.
25:1 extract (root) std. to 95%
Total Cucuminoids complex with Essential oils of Turmeric Rhizome by HPLC (380mg)

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:54 am

handdrummer wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:17 pm
LifeExtension
Super Bio-Curcumin
400mg.
25:1 extract (root) std. to 95%
Total Cucuminoids complex with Essential oils of Turmeric Rhizome by HPLC (380mg)
Good call. I see it on iherb.com (via ipricethailand.com) at THB 899 for 60 x 400 mg capsules.

I found some comparisons of products here:
https://consumereview.org/reviews/turme ... omparisons

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by handdrummer » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:46 pm

404cameljockey wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:54 am
handdrummer wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:17 pm
LifeExtension
Super Bio-Curcumin
400mg.
25:1 extract (root) std. to 95%
Total Cucuminoids complex with Essential oils of Turmeric Rhizome by HPLC (380mg)
Good call. I see it on iherb.com (via ipricethailand.com) at THB 899 for 60 x 400 mg capsules.

I found some comparisons of products here:
https://consumereview.org/reviews/turme ... omparisons
the #1 product looks good, I asked them if they shipped to Thailand? (waiting for response) Many companies won't.

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by handdrummer » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:05 pm

handdrummer wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:46 pm
404cameljockey wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:54 am
handdrummer wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:17 pm
LifeExtension
Super Bio-Curcumin
400mg.
25:1 extract (root) std. to 95%
Total Cucuminoids complex with Essential oils of Turmeric Rhizome by HPLC (380mg)
Good call. I see it on iherb.com (via ipricethailand.com) at THB 899 for 60 x 400 mg capsules.

I found some comparisons of products here:
https://consumereview.org/reviews/turme ... omparisons
the #1 product looks good, I asked them if they shipped to Thailand? (waiting for response) Many companies won't.
They do ship to Thailand but too expensive, especially when you consider that, when you spend 1257 bht. with iherb, shipping is free. Also some of their other products are a little iffy.

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:17 am

Is Shop & Ship an option for the #1 product? I understand it's cheap if you already have an account set up. Buying the #2 product on iherb is the alternative I guess.

Incidentally, I see that shopandshipus.com (probably not the same company) say they do 'not accept to ship e-cigarettes and baroque items to Thailand'. What's wrong with items that exhibit grandeur, sensuous richness, drama, vitality, movement, tension, and emotional exuberance? :thumb:

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by handdrummer » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:49 am

404cameljockey wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:17 am
Is Shop & Ship an option for the #1 product? I understand it's cheap if you already have an account set up. Buying the #2 product on iherb is the alternative I guess.

Incidentally, I see that shopandshipus.com (probably not the same company) say they do 'not accept to ship e-cigarettes and baroque items to Thailand'. What's wrong with items that exhibit grandeur, sensuous richness, drama, vitality, movement, tension, and emotional exuberance? :thumb:
I don't know about shop and ship.

Maybe they don't like Bach, Handel or all those Italians.

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Sun May 20, 2018 2:37 pm

joelle wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 am
hello 404cameljockey did you go to see the specialist opposite HHHospital ?
if so what was the outcome as I suffer from arthritis myself and it is getting worse so I am looking for a knowledgeable doctor who can do something, hopefully
As promised I'm reporting back.

The young doctor in the surgery opposite Hua Hin Hospital on Petchkasem Road sent me to get x-rays of the joint (350 baht at Bangkok Hospital for 2 or 3 x-ray pics and was in and out in an hour, I imagine would be cheaper at HH Hospital if you can bear the queues).

His English is not at all bad and he has a good professional air. He diagnosed a spur growth on the bone where cartilage has worn away and bone now rubs on bone. I could see it as he pointed it out. Very normal in the thumb joint in older people he says. He prescribed me Athril powder (Glucosamine), but said it can take 3 months to have effect. I think that it's supposed to increase the production of cartilage in the joints, but I believe (not sure) it only can increase the thickness of existing cartilage, not replace completely lost patches. So it may be useless to use it for bone on bone situations? I also heard before that this type of medication can take months to have an effect. I think it's an anti-inflammatory as well.

I guess after a few months use I can go and get another x-ray to check the distribution of cartilage in the joint again.

I'm giving it a go. Meantime still on the Voltaren as I got fed up with the pain when fishing in my pocket, counting banknotes, etc. :D

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by robcar » Sun May 20, 2018 3:32 pm

Meantime still on the Voltaren as I got fed up with the pain when fishing in my pocket, counting banknotes, etc. :D
[/quote]


As a longtime back pain sufferer may I offer an observation.

Try to be sparing with the Voltaren. It's/They are the same family as Voltarol which is Dichlofenac which doesn't do your kidneys any favours. I took Voltarol for years until recently when I had a fainting/dizzy episode while crossing Petchkasem.
Long story short....... the Voltarol were killing my kidney function (Diagnosis after tests at Hua Hin Hospital).

Now only take occasional Paracetamol or Ibuprofen if something stronger needed.

As an aside to this note I also have a 'Tens' machine which helps with the pain relief.

Hope all goes well for you

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Re: Treatment for arthritis/rheumatoid arthritis in HH?

Post by 404cameljockey » Sun May 20, 2018 3:44 pm

robcar wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:32 pm
Meantime still on the Voltaren as I got fed up with the pain when fishing in my pocket, counting banknotes, etc. :D

As a longtime back pain sufferer may I offer an observation.

Try to be sparing with the Voltaren. It's/They are the same family as Voltarol which is Dichlofenac which doesn't do your kidneys any favours. I took Voltarol for years until recently when I had a fainting/dizzy episode while crossing Petchkasem.
Long story short....... the Voltarol were killing my kidney function (Diagnosis after tests at Hua Hin Hospital).

Now only take occasional Paracetamol or Ibuprofen if something stronger needed.

As an aside to this note I also have a 'Tens' machine which helps with the pain relief.

Hope all goes well for you
[/quote]

Hi robcar. I really appreciate you taking the time to write. I checked as recently as yesterday and thought I read that it's safe for long-term use (at least up to say 75-100mg daily). I read that the main risks exist if you already have some existing problem (kidney, heart trouble, hypertension, those kinds of thing).

I'll be more careful with its use.

:cheers:

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