nightlife area

[crazy88]

Whilst there are a number of well run bars in town the majority leave a lot to be desired IMHO in terms of service. Whilst many of the staff show willing they are simply not trained for the job. Having run a number of bars in the UK and one in Thailand it pains me to see the same simple mistakes that could be easily corrected with a bit of professional direction and regular feedback. The increase in retained and repeat custom would more than justify the initial outlay of paying to have staff training. My Thai partner and a friend, both hotel management graduates, trained the bar staff for a Thai owned hotel recently. The difference in one day was astonishing.

Also it makes me wonder why, when there are so many affluent expats living here, and well heeled tourists visiting, that so few seem to target this audience fully. A nice lounge bar along the lines of cafe del mar, a chic cocktail bar, a fun pub or any other number of styles would add variety. At the moment the choice of watering hole types is pretty limited IMHO.

Crazy 88

[STEVE G]

Also it makes me wonder why, when there are so many affluent expats living here, and well heeled tourists visiting, that so few seem to target this audience fully. A nice lounge bar along the lines of cafe del mar, a chic cocktail bar, a fun pub or any other number of styles would add variety.

I've been thinking that ever since the first time I visited Hua Hin some years ago.
I think one of the main problems is finding a suitable location which would justify the investment without leaving you at the mercy of a landlord increasing the rent or whatever.
Also, when you tried to charge an extra ten baht for a bottle of Singha to try and recuperate your considerable investment, everyone would winge about it on here!

[Big Boy]

I've thought about it a fair bit as well. My personal conclusion is that the majority of bar owners are like fish out of water. Most of them don't have a clue about running a bar when they buy it. I doubt whether many do very much market research - if they did, they wouldn't be investing in a bar in the first place. Those who invest in a bar learn very quickly it isn't going to make them as rich as they first thought. By that time, they can't afford to take the risk of developing their investment.

To make it work (and I'm far from an expert) they need to research the market, produce a feasible/affordable business plan and develop their investment into an attractive business at the outset. They then need to learn how to manage such an establishment, and get proper training for themselves and their staff. At that point they are probably ready to open.

There will be a regular turnover in staff, so further training needs to take place (also occassional refresher training for existing staff).

[STEVE G]

I suppose with a more up-market sort of bar, you would also be competing with all the five star hotel bars in the area, who don't have to be profitable in pure bars sales in the same way that a stand alone establishment would have to be.

[Lee1975]

Great peice of kit that Baabaa. Thanks

[Shane]

Not familiar with the area Mags mentioned, but I'd relate HH to a walk up and down Pattaya Soi's 7 & 8 in terms of general area size, but with less 'girls/action' here, some bars may have just 6-8 staff. Bar-wise Pattaya and HH are chalk and cheese, like Blackpool and Buxton, Amsterdam and Ayelsbury (apologies non-Brits).

There is an additional row of bars popular'ish with farangs, Soi 80, which is about half a km South from centre of town, bar map:

2105_http___mapsgoogle_1.jpg

SJ

Thanx. Gonna print this off. :]

[sandman67]

Also it makes me wonder why, when there are so many affluent expats living here, and well heeled tourists visiting, that so few seem to target this audience fully. A nice lounge bar along the lines of cafe del mar, a chic cocktail bar, a fun pub or any other number of styles would add variety. At the moment the choice of watering hole types is pretty limited IMHO.

The answer mate is mainly twofold:

First up the way the BintaBlok is made up of small old fisher houses converted (rapidly and badly in most cases) into bar premises means that to do what you suggest would require buying up two or three properties and knocking them into one bar. The rental situation here does not promote such activity, nor the significant amount of investment it takes to get such a place running. Murphs place is a rarity, and I guess he owns the place outright. The property owners dont help with their petty short term view and outright greed refusing to do any renovation work on bars they let.

Next up we have in town a little issue with one prominant hotel bar, and we all know who they are, effectively dictating what goes. Nuff said on that. Everyone knows what goes on.

Add into that heady cocktail of madness the wrongheadedness of the council and police, who do their best to make bar owners and runners lives a misery and seem set on killing the golden goose, and a western economy that is in the pan, and you get HH as it is today.

A mate came over from the UK looking to invest seriously in a theme bar here that would have offered all you set out and more. He was intending doing a mock Apocalypse Now themed family friendly bar n grill type place. He'd even sourced the front of an old Huey to use as a DJ booth or internet terminal "room". Two weeks of research and number juggling later he walked away and caught a plane to Laos, where he is now in the process of setting up with full co-operation and assistance from the local and national authorities. Laos loves inward investment run by farangs, Thailand doesnt. Laos offers assistance and help, Thailand drowns you in red tape, xenophobia and stupidity whilst treating you like a turd in a swimming pool combined with an ATM.

So guess where the money goes.

Even here in Thailand Pukhet and Pattaya are more user friendly and listen to the ex-pat business community. Here they couldnt care less as long as the cash keeps coming in.

Finally, on bar staff etc.... Thai staff do what you want only as long as you are there watching them like a hawk. As soon as you turn away they revert back to "sod the farang we do it our way" setting. Try getting staff to turn the frickin TV on at 7 to a sport channel, or put CDs back in the right boxes for a week or so, or play music tourists like as opposed to Issan karaoke and pipe cracking Compton rap/headache inducing Patayya techno.

Really... go on .... have a go.

I did. I lasted a year or so.

Then like me you will do a Pontius Pilate, wash your hands, and let your missus run things her way. And like Dick said to me a while back, Ill invest in renovations when I start making decent money.

[crazy88]

Agree with a lot of your comments SM NOT SHOUTING JUST CAN'T FIGURE COLOURED TEXT.

The answer mate is mainly twofold:

First up the way the BintaBlok is made up of small old fisher houses converted (rapidly and badly in most cases) into bar premises means that to do what you suggest would require buying up two or three properties and knocking them into one bar. The rental situation here does not promote such activity, nor the significant amount of investment it takes to get such a place running. Murphs place is a rarity, and I guess he owns the place outright. The property owners dont help with their petty short term view and outright greed refusing to do any renovation work on bars they let. AGREE THIS IS THE CASE AND IS PLAIN TO SEE. NOT THE RIGHT AREA IN ANY CASE FOR A LOUNGE BAR. FUN PUB OR THEME BAR PERHAPS BUT HUGE COSTS AND LOTS OF PROBLEMS.

Next up we have in town a little issue with one prominant hotel bar, and we all know who they are, effectively dictating what goes. Nuff said on that. Everyone knows what goes on. AGREED YOU WOULD NEED GOOD CONNECTIONS AND/OR A PROMINENT PARTNER IF YOU WERE TO COMPETE ON THEIR DOORSTEP.

Add into that heady cocktail of madness the wrongheadedness of the council and police, who do their best to make bar owners and runners lives a misery and seem set on killing the golden goose, and a western economy that is in the pan, and you get HH as it is today. CONNECTIONS AND PARTNER AGAIN. OTHERWISE YOU WILL GET EVERY TEA MONEY SCAM IN THE BOOK THROWN AT YOU.

A mate came over from the UK looking to invest seriously in a theme bar here that would have offered all you set out and more. He was intending doing a mock Apocalypse Now themed family friendly bar n grill type place. He'd even sourced the front of an old Huey to use as a DJ booth or internet terminal "room". Two weeks of research and number juggling later he walked away and caught a plane to Laos, where he is now in the process of setting up with full co-operation and assistance from the local and national authorities. Laos loves inward investment run by farangs, Thailand doesnt. Laos offers assistance and help, Thailand drowns you in red tape, xenophobia and stupidity whilst treating you like a turd in a swimming pool combined with an ATM.

So guess where the money goes. TO LAOS AND THEY WILL NEVER REALISE IT UNTIL TOO LATE AND PROBABLY NOT EVEN THEN.

Even here in Thailand Pukhet and Pattaya are more user friendly and listen to the ex-pat business community. Here they couldnt care less as long as the cash keeps coming in. WERE THEY ALWAYS MORE USER FRIENDLY OR DID THEY LEARN OVER TIME?

Finally, on bar staff etc.... Thai staff do what you want only as long as you are there watching them like a hawk. YOU SHOULD BE OR HAVE A MANAGER THAT IS

As soon as you turn away they revert back to "sod the farang we do it our way" setting. Try getting staff to turn the frickin TV on at 7 to a sport channel, or put CDs back in the right boxes for a week or so, or play music tourists like as opposed to Issan karaoke and pipe cracking Compton rap/headache inducing Patayya techno. NOT ON MY WATCH IN ANY PLACE I HAVE OWNED OR RUN. NOR IN ANY OF THE MULTITUDE OF ESTABLISHMENTS OF FRIENDS SIMILAR TO MY ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION. SMARTLY DRESSED, WELL TRAINED STAFF WITH THE SKILLS REQUIRED TO DO THE JOB, A HIGH LEVEL OF CUSTOMER SERVICE AND AN ABILTY TO THINK ON THEIR FEET IS ESSENTIAL BUT HARD TO FIND. WHEN YOU GET A GOOD ONE LOOK AFTER THEM, A BAD ONE LET THEM GO.

Really... go on .... have a go. NO INTENTION OR DESIRE TO BUT I WISH SOMEONE WOULD. IF A COUPLE OF PEOPLE OPENED SUCH BUSINESSES AND THEY BECAME SUCCESSFUL THEN OTHERS WOULD FOLLOW, WELL...COPY, TIT AFTER ALL.

I did. I lasted a year or so. WELL DONE FOR GIVING IT A GO. HEADBUTTED A FEW BRICK WALLS ALONG THE WAY I WOULD IMAGINE.

Then like me you will do a Pontius Pilate, wash your hands, and let your missus run things her way. I WOULD DO THAT FROM DAY ONE AS SHE IS QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED FAR MORE THAN ME. OK I OWNED A LARGE PUB AND WORKED AT OTHERS BUT 5 STAR HOTELS, WEST END BARS ETC. WERE NEVER MY GAME

And like Dick said to me a while back, Ill invest in renovations when I start making decent money. ARSE ABOUT FACE IMHO. HOW CAN YOU EXPECT TO ATTRACT CUSTOMERS WITHOUT SOME INVESTMENT IN MAKING THE PLACE/SERVICE BETTER IN ANY BUSINESS WHEN YOU HAVE COMPETITION ALL AROUND YOU?

THE BAR AND RESTAURANT SCENE HERE CANNOT BE EASY RIGHT NOW AND I DO NOT ENVY ANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN IT AND WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT ALL OF YOU FROM STREET STALL TO 5 STAR COCKTAIL LOUNGE WITH MY CUSTOM.

Crazy 88

[katzler]

Have a virtual walk around it.

Those 360 pictures on that web site are very cool. Too bad there's not more.

[lagojardin]

I very rarely go into town - Toooo bloody pricey. I tend to stay the other side of the Petchakasm where there are some pleasant and much cheaper bars. Soi Sarawak has some good ones, Omah or the Eagle. Just over the crossing is the Railway and up the road from there is my newest local bar Bar, Bar Tender, cheap beer and a nice bar - With sausage rolls and pasties to die for. further afield are the bars on 102, Bobbies being one I would recommend. There's also a couple of decent bars on Soi 88 who's names escape me

[richard]

SM spot on

Finally, on bar staff etc.... Thai staff do what you want only as long as you are there watching them like a hawk. As soon as you turn away they revert back to "sod the farang we do it our way" setting. Try getting staff to turn the frickin TV on at 7 to a sport channel, or put CDs back in the right boxes for a week or so, or play music tourists like as opposed to Issan karaoke and pipe cracking Compton rap/headache inducing Patayya techno.

I frequent a certain bar only because I've known the owner for 10 years and when she is present I get good service and they play the music I like or ask for. When she's not there I'm ignored and the staff are rude'

I know, I know, vote with my feet which I do and have made it known to the owner but TIT. I tend to use a bar now where I know the owner or reliable cashier (hard to come by) is present.

I have even been in bars where I know they have Thai music but been told 'can't play it, no license'. Really means the girls want hip hop crap

I always thought the customer is always right. Not in Thailand

[margaretcarnes]

Crazy88 asks were Patters and Phuket always more user friendly - or did they learn over time? Certainly in the case of Pattaya it simply wouldn't be the city it is now without the influx of GI's during what the Thais call the 'American' war.
Many would say it might be better if it were still a sleepy fishing village, but it ain't, and for good or bad it has attracted major tourism to the LOS. The locals certainly benefited from the influx of farang, which attracted - and continues to attract - workers from other Provinces as well.
Yes the MIB there are more laid back than in HH and more amenable to working with farang owners, but I think they still prefer a Thai fronting a bar. Makes life so much easier all round. That said the real farang 'old timers' there seemed to be pretty much left alone.
But the Patters authorities learned a hard lesson in the early days when, seeing that GI's meant money (they were charged for each trip ashore) the charge was about doubled overnight. The GI's went elsewhere. Lesson learned. Pattaya recovered - maybe by hitting harder with the sleaze factor than it had before.
Plus of course it doesn't have to maintain the same level of decorum and respect which HH does to some of it's regular visitors!

[cozza]

Im going to rustle some feathers with this post I think...

I mean no disrespect to any of my fellow westerners in the Hua Hin area...but walking around with my eyes open I can see very plain and openly that the type of Thai that frequents Hua Hin/Cha Am now from Bangkok is not only more abundant but seems to spend more.

[dtaai-maai]

^^Cozza, I've read your post three times and tried hard to be offended, but my feathers remain unruffled!

You seem to be saying that there are more Thais around spending more money. That's not very controversial.

[johnnyk]

Well-off Thais were coming to HH and spending money long before any falangs turned up. This is not news.