Hua Hin Golf Community

Sub-forum for discussion on golf in Hua Hin and Thailand.
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PET
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Re: Majestic Creek GC up for sale?

Post by PET » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:18 pm

3wood wrote:Any truth to this rumour, any one got any info ? I was thinking about buying a membership there, may be I should wait

The only sure way you can make a good business from owning a golf course is to be able to build and sell houses on it.
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jingjoe
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by jingjoe » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:57 pm

I reckon springfield memberships are the best value,i know of one for sale lifetime family membership,wife or son/daughter can play,fully resellable,probably one of the best courses in hua hin for under 300 000bht including transfer..pm for details if interested

heartofmidlothian
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by heartofmidlothian » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:28 pm

Majestic has been up for sale for several years but they are asking too much. Unless of course they have reduced their price to a sensible level.
I have heard it said so many times that you cannot make money in the golf business. Having been involved with Black Mountain when it opened and since then also looked into the costs of building golf courses in Thailand, you can make good money out of running a golf course, but you have to build the right type of golf course without wasting money. You also have to run it properly and efficiently and get the pricing right. There is a huge demand for golf here but most are not willing to pay 3000 baht all in for a round of golf. That pricing only works for 3 months per year.
PEt, have you worked in the golf business in Thailand or anywhere? In my experience, anyone who has been in the golf business knows that money can be made if done right. Yes of course, selling land around your course is a great way to make more money.
When Black Mountain opened, the money that wAs brought in from green fees, carts, food and merchandise was substantial. Since then the course has been improved dramatically and the course is much better known now, so the income is certainly bigger now.

musungu
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by musungu » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:56 am

I have seen many golf course financial proposals and have seen the results after farmers sold land at a great profit to such developers in the UK, but which went belly up 6 years later. Why, because the debt cost was too great. If they had had planning for housing ( UK near impossible) they would have been fine - so PET is generally correct.

Black Mountain made huge profits from real estate sales and continue to do so I suspect
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Henry 14th
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by Henry 14th » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:51 am

I worked in golf most of my life at a number of private clubs in the UK and at a number of country club/resorts in Asia.

I can only agree with PET. Golf operations revenue alone can not sustain the financial requirements that are needed to deliver a well maintained facility.

Factoring in salaries, machinery expenditure and maintenance costs, a golf operation would usually need to be backed up by other income streams if management are to keep members and visitors happy.


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3wood
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by 3wood » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:24 am

jingjoe wrote:Majestic has been up for sale for several years but they are asking too much. Unless of course they have reduced their price to a sensible level.
I have heard it said so many times that you cannot make money in the golf business. Having been involved with Black Mountain when it opened and since then also looked into the costs of building golf courses in Thailand, you can make good money out of running a golf course, but you have to build the right type of golf course without wasting money. You also have to run it properly and efficiently and get the pricing right. There is a huge demand for golf here but most are not willing to pay 3000 baht all in for a round of golf. That pricing only works for 3 months per year.
PEt, have you worked in the golf business in Thailand or anywhere? In my experience, anyone who has been in the golf business knows that money can be made if done right. Yes of course, selling land around your course is a great way to make more money.
When Black Mountain opened, the money that wAs brought in from green fees, carts, food and merchandise was substantial. Since then the course has been improved dramatically and the course is much better known now, so the income is certainly bigger now.
have to agree , there are thousands of "just" golf course around the world , not a house to be seen, and doing well, get the price right people will come
Let's not forget where we are, Thailand, what's the average daily wage ? 300-400 B.
say you have 100 staff that gives you daily salary cost of 40,000 B.
and let's ignore other overheads for a moment,
If the golf courses bring the price of the green fee down to say 1000B. at least in low season, they would easily get 40 players a day, as proved by "golf festival" season to cover the staff cost.

Get the price right people will come

Henry 14th
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by Henry 14th » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:17 pm

The problem with ignoring overheads is that those costs are huge!

You simply cannot ignore the overheads in this case, they are more than the cost of staff.

Members courses back in the UK make up the majority of 'ownership' types and are operated as non-profits. Not to say that they aren't left with a small profit but they do not need to satisfy investors/owners.

Larger resort types usually have gyms, hotels, conference facilities etc attached to them that bring in extra revenue. Such establishments are businesses and require substantial profits to satisfy investors/owners.

I stand by what has been said here that the vast majority of courses that are required to make a profit need other income streams other than green fees, corporate golf days, open competitions etc.




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3wood
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by 3wood » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:34 pm

Henry 14th wrote:You simply cannot ignore the overheads in this case, they are more than the cost of staff.
I'm not ignoring other overheads, most businesses in Thailand especially if done by Thais are funded by hard cash, so they do not have to pay back loans or interest every month, so they have limited cash flow problems.
Once the initial cost of land perches and building,machinery perches cost has been paid for in cash they have very little over heads, ( sure there are other overheads like maintenance etc., but I don't want to post a full business plan here)
that's why you see many businesses seemingly going for years in Thailand and Asia without actually seem to be doing a great trade.

musungu
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by musungu » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:43 pm

3wood wrote:
jingjoe wrote:Majestic has been up for sale for several years but they are asking too much. Unless of course they have reduced their price to a sensible level.
I have heard it said so many times that you cannot make money in the golf business. Having been involved with Black Mountain when it opened and since then also looked into the costs of building golf courses in Thailand, you can make good money out of running a golf course, but you have to build the right type of golf course without wasting money. You also have to run it properly and efficiently and get the pricing right. There is a huge demand for golf here but most are not willing to pay 3000 baht all in for a round of golf. That pricing only works for 3 months per year.
PEt, have you worked in the golf business in Thailand or anywhere? In my experience, anyone who has been in the golf business knows that money can be made if done right. Yes of course, selling land around your course is a great way to make more money.
When Black Mountain opened, the money that wAs brought in from green fees, carts, food and merchandise was substantial. Since then the course has been improved dramatically and the course is much better known now, so the income is certainly bigger now.

have to agree , there are thousands of "just" golf course around the world , not a house to be seen, and doing well, get the price right people will come
Let's not forget where we are, Thailand, what's the average daily wage ? 300-400 B.
say you have 100 staff that gives you daily salary cost of 40,000 B.
and let's ignore other overheads for a moment,
If the golf courses bring the price of the green fee down to say 1000B. at least in low season, they would easily get 40 players a day, as proved by "golf festival" season to cover the staff cost.

Get the price right people will come
You say ignore the overheads ( such as development cost, building cost,machinery etc etc but these are what the owner has spent and has to cover over time to make a profit - are you a financial adviser ? (joking)!
Prior Planning & Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

3wood
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by 3wood » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:55 pm

3wood wrote:You say ignore the overheads ( such as development cost, building cost,machinery etc etc but these are what the owner has spent and has to cover over time to make a profit - are you a financial adviser ? (joking)!
read my previous post

musungu
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by musungu » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:09 pm

3wood wrote:
Henry 14th wrote:You simply cannot ignore the overheads in this case, they are more than the cost of staff.
I'm not ignoring other overheads, most businesses in Thailand especially if done by Thais are funded by hard cash, so they do not have to pay back loans or interest every month, so they have limited cash flow problems.
Once the initial cost of land perches and building,machinery perches cost has been paid for in cash they have very little over heads, ( sure there are other overheads like maintenance etc., but I don't want to post a full business plan here)
that's why you see many businesses seemingly going for years in Thailand and Asia without actually seem to be doing a great trade.
When building a golf course the land and development of it amounts to serious money. The golf course business cannot be compared with some cash funded business. In the last statistics I read that loans to customers by Thai banks was at an incredible high level compared to 5 years ago. This clearly shows that like other economies when it comes to larger financial projects bank finance is required.

Would you invest 'X' Millions and not expect a return, come on this is the real world?
Prior Planning & Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Henry 14th
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by Henry 14th » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:13 pm

I can't take your argument seriously.

It's like building a hotel, constructing it without paying for materials and renting the rooms out without paying out taxes, utility bills, laundry bills, f&b purchases etc.




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3wood
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by 3wood » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:18 pm

For Most Thais and Asians, real value of a business lies in the freehold ownership of land or a Building
which you don't seem to understand

Henry 14th
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community

Post by Henry 14th » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:43 pm

But you are willing to forget daily operating expenses in you equation. It's ridiculous to suggest what you are suggesting, irrespective of the nonsense twist you are putting on the lease status of land, which also has nothing to do with the huge expense of the initial construction.


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3wood
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Re: Hua Hin Golf Community, Trip to Nikanti GC

Post by 3wood » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:24 pm

Chance to play Thailand's newest 5star golf course, Nikanti GC, for the all inclusive price of 3500 B.

Details- http://www.huahingolfcommunity.com/trip ... c-1412015/

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