Dog Trainer?

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dotx
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:44 pm

Unfortunately, the people from Europa kennel refuse to train my dog. According to the owner's son, only dogs under 8 months can be trained. Because my dog is now 14 months, he thinks the dog is too old and is a lost cause. I tried to reason with them, but they assured me there's no way he can be trained ("too old"). It's a shame, because I really like this people. My dogs always come back from the kennel very happy and in great shape.

So it's back to square one for me. I still need a trainer and I'm getting desperate. Can't get the dogs to stop fighting and I'm living as a prisoner of sorts (one dog inside the house with me, door closed, then rotate). The dog outside cries like crazy, which makes my time inside the house anything but relaxing. I have no idea what to do.

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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dozer » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:55 pm

E-Dork wrote:
This is obviosuly a Thai/old school thing.
And more than likely carried out in the same way as they 'train' kids to behave. With a big stick - hence you are not allowed to see their teachings but will end up with a dog that won't dare step foot wrong again for fear of being hit. Friendly it won't be... scared and timid it will.
It seems like ignorant statements are your forte, there is no way Thai parents beating their kids is the norm here.
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by E-Dork » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:08 pm

It seems like ignorant statements are your forte, there is no way Thai parents beating their kids is the norm here.
And it seems you are but a mere baby to Thailand. I have lived here for well over 20 years and have interacted with hundreds of Thai Families in my time. From my experience with lower wage Thai's the 'mai' comes out fairly quickly either to hit the child or intimidate him/her. On the other hand Hi-So thais rairly hit their children but instead allow them to run riot, giving them anything that they want. I don't know which type of parenting is better really :shock:

Dozer, get real. Maybe even interact with some Thai's while your here as you obviously haven't :? . All in all, despite their downfalls (we all have them) 90% of them I have met have been good people.

PS - Enlighten yourself to facts Dozer, go and stand outside the nearest government school in the morning and watch the kids lined up getting whacked with a stick for some wrongdoing. And you think the use of a stick is not the norm? :?

Shouldn't post about things you are obviously clueless to. :banghead:
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by PeteC » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:58 am

Back to dog training.......you may have to consider going outside of Hua Hin then if no options you like are there. Below is one I picked off of Google in Bangkok. Seems like they have what you need. Pete :cheers:

http://www.k9bangkok.com/about_us.php

Here are more from the Thai Yellow Pages. I'm sure not a complete list: http://www.yellow.co.th/YellowPages/Ani ... /index.htm

There are even more if you Google 'dog training Thailand' but none in HH unfortunately.
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by PeteC » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:32 am

Trying to put all of this into summary it looks as if you have the following choices:

1) Find training outside of Hua Hin, although will prove expensive and inconvenient.

2) Go with what the Hua Hin vet recommended with the 2 month away training and hope for the best. It may work and at least will give you a 2 month break with peace and quiet.

3) Have them all neutered if not already and see the result it brings concerning aggressiveness.

4) Sell or give one away to a friend/family. Thai Police/Customs/Military may be interested in the aggressive one.

5) Have a vet do a full health check up and blood tests on the aggressive dog to see if his behaviour is in some way related to physical illness. Maybe he'll recommend some oral sedatives for a short term solution while you sort things out.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Pete :cheers:
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:48 am

prcscct wrote:Trying to put all of this into summary it looks as if you have the following choices:

1) Find training outside of Hua Hin, although will prove expensive and inconvenient.

2) Go with what the Hua Hin vet recommended with the 2 month away training and hope for the best. It may work and at least will give you a 2 month break with peace and quiet.

3) Have them all neutered if not already and see the result it brings concerning aggressiveness.

4) Sell or give one away to a friend/family. Thai Police/Customs/Military may be interested in the aggressive one.

5) Have a vet do a full health check up and blood tests on the aggressive dog to see if his behaviour is in some way related to physical illness. Maybe he'll recommend some oral sedatives for a short term solution while you sort things out.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Pete :cheers:
Thanks for all the answers. A few quick answers:

1. Not convenient and probably not cheap, but I'm willing to try. I actually talked to the k9 guy yesterday and he gave me some tips. I offered to pay for him to come once a week to HH but he said it wouldn't really do much good. I'm thinking of maybe going to Bangkok for a week or two and staying there with the dog that needs training. Will discuss that next and will try other trainers as well.

2. No. I believe this is a dangerous option. Not only I fear for my dog but I also think it's useless.

3. Big dog was neutered about 10 days ago. Small dog is going in today. After the surgery, I'll leave him at the hospital until the stitches are removed (7 days), so that'll give me some more time alone with the other dog to continue trying to train him.

4. No family. No friends who could take this dog. I would not give him away in any case. He's my family. His behavior is greatly my fault for not training him when he was a baby, so I'm taking responsibility for it and fixing it now.

5. I did this just before he was neutered. He's in good health. I will get him started on sertraline (an antidepressive, anti-anxiety human medication), which is often used on dogs to treat aggression. This on recommendation of a couple of vets I contacted in the States and one vet here in HH (I was surprised she was this up-to-date). It takes a few weeks for the medication to kick in, but it's another bit of hope for the long run.

Thanks again. I appreciate the help (I'm overwhelmed to say the least) and will start talking to other trainers in Bangkok to see if anything comes out of it.

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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by PeteC » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:54 am

Regarding #3, the big one may be jealous that the small one still has his b%lls! :P I like the way you're going about things and not giving up. I'm sure you'll hit on a solution. :thumb: Pete :cheers:
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by moja » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:48 am

10 days is not that long for a dog that has been neutured perhaps you just need to give him a bit more time. Neuturing usually reduces aggression. How long has this problem between the dogs been happening and did something happen to trigger it?

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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by Homer » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:14 am

Time to get up on my soap box here.

Dog trainers are for people who can't be bothered with doing the training themselves or for owners who have failed at training. Usually the dog is blamed for the failure, but in most cases it's the owner, because most of what the owner knows is wrong.

If the dog thinks the owner is the head of the pack then training is easy, but time consuming, using the method of rewarding successive approximations of the desired behavior. For example, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaping_%28psychology%29

If the dog thinks he is the leader of the pack then he needs to be shown otherwise. If the owner can't or won't physically dominate an alpha dog he will never be trained. The dog doesn't have to be hit but physical coercion will be involved. Lifting the dog's front feet off the ground using a choke chain shows them who the dominate one is without hurting them.

Ever watch feral dogs fight? The pack that claims the part of the soi I live on fight almost every night. Just enough pain is administered by a dominant dog to a dominated one to show the lesser dog that he would lose a real fight. The fight ends when the dominated dogs submits and then he walks away with a new shallow bite mark.

Some owners have issues about physically dominating dogs. Dogs [ pick one: a) were created, b) evolved ] and domesticated such that the strong, aggressive dogs beat up on the weak, timid dogs and both types know that's the way it is and that's the way it should be. They can't comprehend anything else.

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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by georgy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:59 pm

dotx wrote:Unfortunately, the people from Europa kennel refuse to train my dog. According to the owner's son, only dogs under 8 months can be trained. Because my dog is now 14 months, he thinks the dog is too old and is a lost cause. I tried to reason with them, but they assured me there's no way he can be trained ("too old"). It's a shame, because I really like this people. My dogs always come back from the kennel very happy and in great shape.

So it's back to square one for me. I still need a trainer and I'm getting desperate. Can't get the dogs to stop fighting and I'm living as a prisoner of sorts (one dog inside the house with me, door closed, then rotate). The dog outside cries like crazy, which makes my time inside the house anything but relaxing. I have no idea what to do.
I called Kennel Europe today. According the lady they are not doing any dog training. Pity.
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:47 pm

moja wrote:10 days is not that long for a dog that has been neutured perhaps you just need to give him a bit more time. Neuturing usually reduces aggression. How long has this problem between the dogs been happening and did something happen to trigger it?
I'm sorry I haven't been back for a couple of weeks. Small dog has now been neutered too. Hopefully this will help over time. I've been told (and read online) that it takes 2-3 months after the surgery before you can see a difference.

As for physically dominating the big dog... I"m a tiny woman. I can't even pick him off the floor if I try (he weighs 35 kg). I also don't believe in physical punishment as a way of training. I have been following the advice of a trainer I contacted in Bangkok. He recommended making the big dog "work for his food" so he understands I'm the boss. So I put some food in my hand, ask him to come and sit and only then he gets the food. He seems to be growling less and being less possessive over food in general. Up until then, he wouldn't even let me get close to the bowl once I gave it to him. Now he's eating off my hand. I'm taking that as a huge step forward.

The problem between the dogs started about two weeks before my first post. Nothing absolutely happened to trigger it. At least nothing obvious. Big dog had been barking and growling at the smaller dog for a while and then one day he just went for him. Small dog was just walking into the room where I was and the other one attacked him.

I've been away on vacation for 13 days. They stayed at Europa for that time. I called the kennel a couple of times while I was away and the dogs (who were in cages next to each other) were not barking or going crazy. I just came home and they'll be back tomorrow, so we'll see. I plan on keeping up with the training and establishing positions in the household.

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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:55 pm

Also, the medication seems to be helping. He's not sedated or sleepy or anything like that (which is a good thing; I didn't want a dog walking around half-drugged). Instead, the medication is helping with his anxiety. Before, he would get really anxious and excited when I went somewhere and left him in the house. Now he doesn't make a big deal out of it anymore. Huge improvement. This might also be part of the reason he's not so anxious over his food anymore. He seems like a happier, more balanced dog.

I don't think the medication has helped with the aggression just yet, but I'll keep him on it for a while --I was told it might take up to 8 weeks before you see the full effect.

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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by PeteC » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:48 am

That's positive news Dotx. Keep us updated as valuable info for others as well. Pete :cheers:
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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by russ » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:56 am

phone my friend donald he used to run kennel europe 0822 458367 he will be able to train your dog

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Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:47 pm

Well, dogs are back and it took about 30 minutes of them being together before it started again. I was able to distract the big dog and close a door to separate them but apparently the fighting is still going strong. I'm so tired of it! Thanks russ for the phone number. I talked to Donald and he agreed on meeting the dogs and seeing if he can help.

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