Dog Trainer?

A place to discuss all things pets, vets and animal care.
Takiap
Rock Star
Rock Star
Posts: 3373
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Bo Fai

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by Takiap » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:50 pm

Dotx, I am not trying to imply anything here, but judging from some of your comments, you have not established yourself as the alpha dog in your home, and believe me, size and strength has nothing to do with it. You mention you dog would not allow you anywhere near the food bowl? That for one is a huge No-No. I don't advocate physical punishment, but just as with people, all dogs are different. I have successfully trained many dogs in my life, and the only one that simply would not give in to me approaching her food, is the Dalmatian I have at present. How many times she snapped at me I don't know, but eventually I got sick of it, and so, the next time she did it, she felt my hand can do more than only show affection. She was also taken by the scruff of her neck and shaken in a way she had never thought possible. Cruel? I don't think so, but I do know that the problem ended there and then. I also have a Rottweiler, and she seems too be a little more gifted as far as brain power is concerned. She has never required any physical correction, and she is an absolute dream. Even my kids, who are basically still toddlers can take her food, although she won't allow the other dog near her when she's eating. That I allow, because they are pack animals, and they have a pecking order.

Just remember, dogs can sense fear, and if your dog even suspects you're a little afraid, you can train him all you like, but he still won't obey. Another option is a shock collar. Now I know many will be outraged by this, but that's simply because they'll ill informed. The charge those collars release is nothing more than the shock you get sometime when you take off your jumper. Maybe unpleasant, but certainly not painful. BTW, I only know this through doing research as I've never need to use one myself.

Also, I must say you're setting a great example though, because many owners would simply get rid of the dog, or put it on a chain.


Good luck :thumb:
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact

dotx
Specialist
Specialist
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:45 am

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:51 am

Oh, I've always known this is partly my fault for not taking charge early on. I think what happened is that my other dog (the smaller one) has always been very obedient and a pleasure to be around. He learned commands in a day, has always been protective but respectful, never had a problem with him. So I guess I thought it would happen naturally with the second one as well.

I'm working on changing my relationship with the big dog. He now has "to work" for his food. For example, I'll put it in a bowl, call him over, ask him to sit and only then he gets it. Then I just stand there, next to the bowl, while he eats. Before he wouldn't let me even get closer, so to me this is big progress. Takiap, if you have other suggestions on how I can work on this, please share.

User avatar
PeteC
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 20952
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:58 am
Location: All Blacks training camp

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by PeteC » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:47 am

Dotx, sorry if you already mentioned it but what is the breed of your two dogs? Pete :cheers:
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source

User avatar
moja
Guru
Guru
Posts: 966
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Hua Hin

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by moja » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:56 am

can you take the food away from your dog once he has started eating it? It is important that he lets you do this. Our dog was a rescue dog and when we first got him he would not let anyone near his bowl - understandable but not a situation we were willing to live with. We started taking his food away from him and if he let us he got it straight back but if he snapped or snarled he did not get it back for at least an hour and once he got it back we repeated the process. It did not take him too long to learn if he wanted his food he had to be nice - now he could not care less and often walks away from his food for a while before going back to finish it.

Dogs are like children they will push to see what the limits are.

Takiap
Rock Star
Rock Star
Posts: 3373
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Bo Fai

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by Takiap » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:31 pm

Yes, dogs can be really strange. For example, my dalmatian dominates the rottweiler most times, but when it comes to feeding time, the dalmatian cannot go near the rottweiler, and knows better than to try her luck. With that said, both my young daughters (4 and 6) can take the rottweilers food away, although they don't of course.


Dotx, I would suggest that the next time your big dog gets aggressive with the smaller one, you need to intervene and punish the bully. This does not mean a beating, but perhaps a few harsh words and a bit of time in solitary confinement. You could also try one of those collars you can buy, and if the sound of a shock collar puts you off, you also get ultrasonic ones, and also those which produce a strong smelling spray. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have not personally used any of these, so it's only a suggestion.


:thumb:
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact

User avatar
moja
Guru
Guru
Posts: 966
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Hua Hin

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by moja » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:03 pm

In the past we have found the best way to punish a dog is to tell them off and then completely ignore them, this seems to worry them more than anything as they want to say sorry but you do not let them do this.

dotx
Specialist
Specialist
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:45 am

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:26 pm

moja wrote:can you take the food away from your dog once he has started eating it?
Not yet. It's my goal to be able to do that, eventually, but I don't want to get injured again, so I'm going at it step by step. I'm actually able to feed him off my hand now, which is huge.

dotx
Specialist
Specialist
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:45 am

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:38 pm

Takiap wrote:You could also try one of those collars you can buy, and if the sound of a shock collar puts you off, you also get ultrasonic ones, and also those which produce a strong smelling spray. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have not personally used any of these, so it's only a suggestion.
:thumb:
Can't deal with the idea of a shock collar. It just seems to cruel, even if the shock is small. The spray collar seems like the most humane of all, but all the ones I've found online seem to be triggered by barking. Not sure if that's something that can be turned off, so I need to look into it further. Never seen one in Thailand either, so I might need to order online.

User avatar
dtaai-maai
Addict
Addict
Posts: 9335
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Hua Hin

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dtaai-maai » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:28 pm

Dot, did you find someone to help you with training?
We have 2 young (4-5 months) retrievers with very different characters. The female is easy-going and very much in charge, while the bigger slightly older male is over-excitable and way too eager to please. He is also inclined to jump up.

I've looked on the internet, but most of it is common sense and not much practical use.
The groundwork has been laid, as Mrs D-M feeds them (initially) by hand and makes them sit patiently for a minute.
I don't want them to say "sausages" or count to 10, just to come when called, stay when told, and walk to heel when necessary.

EDIT: I've just read this thread more thoroughly and realise that Dot was not looking for the same thing I'd like. We have no major behavioral problems, both dogs now sleep outside quite happily and get on extremely well together. They even eat together, sometimes from the same bowl, apart from the occasional squabble over a pig's knee.
I just want some advice with the "fine tuning". Maybe I'll look more thoroughly on the Internet.
Language is an issue too, since Mrs D-M is the real leader of the pack.
Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and St George!’

dotx
Specialist
Specialist
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:45 am

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:18 pm

No, there are no trainers in Hua Hin. I did talk on the phone with a trainer from Bangkok and he gave me some pointers. The aggressive dog is now on medication for his anxiety and we've been making huge progress with training. Things are much, much better and he's such a happy dog. I'm really glad I didn't give up on him (it was never an option in my mind, anyway). If your dogs have no behavioral problems, just keep doing what you're doing.


dtaai-maai wrote:Dot, did you find someone to help you with training?
We have 2 young (4-5 months) retrievers with very different characters. The female is easy-going and very much in charge, while the bigger slightly older male is over-excitable and way too eager to please. He is also inclined to jump up.

I've looked on the internet, but most of it is common sense and not much practical use.
The groundwork has been laid, as Mrs D-M feeds them (initially) by hand and makes them sit patiently for a minute.
I don't want them to say "sausages" or count to 10, just to come when called, stay when told, and walk to heel when necessary.

EDIT: I've just read this thread more thoroughly and realise that Dot was not looking for the same thing I'd like. We have no major behavioral problems, both dogs now sleep outside quite happily and get on extremely well together. They even eat together, sometimes from the same bowl, apart from the occasional squabble over a pig's knee.
I just want some advice with the "fine tuning". Maybe I'll look more thoroughly on the Internet.
Language is an issue too, since Mrs D-M is the real leader of the pack.

lovicks
Novice
Novice
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by lovicks » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:49 pm

I am desparate to find a good dog trainer as well. My situation is similar to Dotx's. My two dogs do not get along too well. The alpha dog bullies the other one so much that it makes him scared and agressive towards other dogs and people. He even bit one of our neighbours. My husband is suggesting giving up one of them. NO! I can't do that. However I do understand his frustration. Fighting can happen any time. When we have guests coming, we cannot be sure to have a quiet and peaceful evening.

The scared dog is advised to take medication control. At the moment, the two dogs are with a trainer (I use "in jail" to describe them since the trainer puts them in cages.) It is my fault of not being able to lead them well. I love them so much and cannot give them up. I adopted them to give them a good home. How can I put them back to hell again?

I do realise it may be dangerous for other people. What can I do? Can you teach me the way you are training your dog?

lovicks

User avatar
Vital Spark
Ace
Ace
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:34 pm
Location: Nakhon Pathom

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by Vital Spark » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:00 pm

DM: In our experience (with a Thai dog) they need an alpha male to be the boss. No disrespect to Mrs.DM, but you can't have two 'leaders of the pack', and firm (single word) instructions work. You'll obviously need to decide whether the instructions will be in Thai or English - but stick to one or the other.

Retrievers are working dogs, and love to retrieve. Is there anywhere around where you live where you can let them off the lead to do what they're designed to do? They need to stretch their legs and work for you, picking up anything to return with commands like 'Go', 'Come', 'Sit', 'Give'.

Can you find any of the old Barbara Woodhouse vids on the net? She had some pretty good ideas about training dogs.

VS

P.S. I've just had a vision of you in hot persuit of your dogs chasing the horses on the beach Fenton style... :wink:
"Properly trained, man can be a dog's best friend"

dotx
Specialist
Specialist
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:45 am

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dotx » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:34 pm

If you're using the trainer recommended by the vets here in Hua Hin (the one who takes the dogs with him to his house), please stop. It's a horrible idea and it does nothing to teach the dogs who's the boss. They'll come back scared and will probably obey HIM. The dogs need to learn YOU are their master, not this guy. Taking the dogs away from you does NOT work. Dogs must be trained along with their owners (or... "owners must be trained along with their dogs").

Are your dogs fixed? Both of them? If not, that's the first step.

Second, I put the aggressive dog on medication, not the weak one. Though I don't really have a weak one per se. I have one that always starts the fights, and one that does not back off once the fights start. I put the first one on medication.

It took a few months for the medication to really kick in. During those months, I kept them separated 100 % of the time. I actually had somebody build a gate to split the yard in two so I could have them in separate areas. They could still see each other, which is a good thing. Once the aggressive dog started to calm down a bit, teaching him commands was quite easy. He learned "sit" and "come" in less than a day. I started feeding from my hand and taught him to sit if he wanted his bowl of food. It was amazing how well (and how quickly) he responded.

To stop fights, I have a spray bottle filled with water and a few drops of citronella essential oil. Dogs hate the smell. At first, I would spray the air near their heads when the growling or fighting started (never directly to their faces; just near them). Now I just have to pick up the bottle and they back away on their own (most of the time, anyway). This is the method they use to train aggressive rescued dogs at Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in the USA. They deal with dogs that were deemed "a lost cause" and were about to be put to sleep, so that gives me hope.

The medication was a lifesaver in my case. I was very reluctant to try it at first, but it's been wonderful.

Also, this is not going to get better in a month or two, so you'll need a lot of patience.


lovicks wrote:I am desparate to find a good dog trainer as well. My situation is similar to Dotx's. My two dogs do not get along too well. The alpha dog bullies the other one so much that it makes him scared and agressive towards other dogs and people. He even bit one of our neighbours. My husband is suggesting giving up one of them. NO! I can't do that. However I do understand his frustration. Fighting can happen any time. When we have guests coming, we cannot be sure to have a quiet and peaceful evening.

The scared dog is advised to take medication control. At the moment, the two dogs are with a trainer (I use "in jail" to describe them since the trainer puts them in cages.) It is my fault of not being able to lead them well. I love them so much and cannot give them up. I adopted them to give them a good home. How can I put them back to hell again?

I do realise it may be dangerous for other people. What can I do? Can you teach me the way you are training your dog?

lovicks

User avatar
dtaai-maai
Addict
Addict
Posts: 9335
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Hua Hin

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by dtaai-maai » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:12 am

Vital Spark wrote: I've just had a vision of you in hot persuit of your dogs chasing the horses on the beach Fenton style...
The wonderful JesusChristFenton clip! Our dogs are called O-Buck and Whisky, so if anyone sees a panting farang wandering the streets apparently swearing and in need of a drink, you'll know I've lost my dogs!
Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and St George!’

Takiap
Rock Star
Rock Star
Posts: 3373
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Bo Fai

Re: Dog Trainer?

Post by Takiap » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:54 am

Lovicks......it all comes down to being firm, and showing your dogs that you are the alpha dog, and also the only alpha dog. Forget what some people say about never using any form of physical correction. Dogs ARE NOT humans, and they cannot be reasoned with. I suggest you read a post made (I think) by Homer earlier in this thread. In a pack, a lesser dog that pushes its luck with the alpha dog gets a bite. Not a serious bite, but a bite nonetheless. Wagging your finger and saying "bad doggie" has absolutely no effect at all. A good slap and a thorough shaking achieves far more. I have never yet had a problem dog, and none of my dogs have ever been scared of me, but they have always respected the fact that I am the boss. You also need to have a zero tolerance policy. If your dog is not allowed to do something, then it's never allowed to do it.


I would also recommend a shock collar if you feel you don't want to physically correct bad behavior. Contrary to popular belief, shock collars are not inhumane, and they do not cause any pain at all. I have looked at a few and felt a few myself, but have never had to use one yet.


Lastly, I agree with what others have said, in that only you can train your dogs. Again, if you're looking for a quick, easy, effective, and humane way to stop fighting, get a shock collar.


:cheers:
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest