As a teenager I always dreamed of living in the tropics. It is funny because I used to tell my friends I would someday live in Asia and marry a Japanese woman who who cook fish and rice for me every day. Well I married a Thai instead and after 12 + years together I couldn't be happier with my choice of spouse. She has given me two wonderful children who are smart and happy.
That is where my turmoil starts, I am new to Hua Hin and our family is enjoying it. We are in a position that we have a beautiful piece of land to build an acreage on and I desperately want to get started however I worry about the future in Thailand.
In the dozen years I have lived here I haven't seen any social improvement to the country on the contrary Thailand seems to be evolving backwards. Deep down I know moving my family to Canada would be wise but I think I would be miserable. I worry my unhappiness will rub off on my wife and kids causing them to be unhappy also.
Should we take a chance staying in Thailand or take the safe option by moving to Canada. Tough decision to make!
Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
There is no "right" answer. Either choice will take you in a different direction with different benefits and problems. Each country will offer you lots of grief. It is up to you to make the most positive experience of whatever choice you make. Don't look outside for happiness, improvement and evolution. The answer for this lies within. Why do some people prosper during adversity and others suffer? The choice is yours. What ever choice you make, make that choice the right one!HHCanuck wrote:As a teenager I always dreamed of living in the tropics. It is funny because I used to tell my friends I would someday live in Asia and marry a Japanese woman who who cook fish and rice for me every day. Well I married a Thai instead and after 12 + years together I couldn't be happier with my choice of spouse. She has given me two wonderful children who are smart and happy.
That is where my turmoil starts, I am new to Hua Hin and our family is enjoying it. We are in a position that we have a beautiful piece of land to build an acreage on and I desperately want to get started however I worry about the future in Thailand.
In the dozen years I have lived here I haven't seen any social improvement to the country on the contrary Thailand seems to be evolving backwards. Deep down I know moving my family to Canada would be wise but I think I would be miserable. I worry my unhappiness will rub off on my wife and kids causing them to be unhappy also.
Should we take a chance staying in Thailand or take the safe option by moving to Canada. Tough decision to make!
I wouldn't have to manage my anger if people could learn to mange their stupidity!
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
HHC
have done quite a bit of soul-searching myself, and find myself still here. I see a lot of what I am going through in your post; married a Thai, and have two children here. Both have Thai citizenship. We have a property in Bangkok; it is being rebuilt after the flood damage.
Yes, the country does not look like it is moving anywhere, but as I have lived almost half my life here (and still work here) I have no plans on leaving.
I read between the lines your comment 'Doing the right thing' as 'conforming to a social norm that is expected of a family man'. Better for the kids, give them a good start in life, one they can't get here. Sacrifice the happiness, and give up the dream you dreamt about and are now living for them. Can't have both?
Ever heard of compromise?
My kids were born here. They understand this country more than I ever will. And as citizens, they have rights here too. A decent education can be had, but at a cost. They have international standard universities where one son is. He will be coming back from a one-year stint in Japan, where the uni has a reciprocal arrangement with a counterpart there. He has spent time in the US on a student exchange program. Has been offered a job by a Japanese company with the proviso he graduates first.
Bottom line, it's his choice, he has been given an opportunity. I'm still here and am not moving anywhere. It's up to the kids. That's what Mum and Dad said, we're not going anywhere, it's up to you. Your future.
Re the property. The flood damage has removed any strong attachment to material things. I'm on the wrong side of fifty anyway, and the house will eventually belong to the kids. Que Sera Sera.
I still have a 4WD and and happy with just a guitar in the back. As a friend said, life is short. Do what you want to do, not what people expect you to do.
So I am selfish. I may take a weekend off by myself to spend on a beach alone with my guitar. The kids are old enough and have their own friends, my wife would rather stay at home and watch telly (she does the same anyway if we go to a hotel somewhere as a family), so...
I go to the beach and get to keep a bit of my sanity.
P.S. As S&F says, there is no easy answer. I've found mine.
have done quite a bit of soul-searching myself, and find myself still here. I see a lot of what I am going through in your post; married a Thai, and have two children here. Both have Thai citizenship. We have a property in Bangkok; it is being rebuilt after the flood damage.
Yes, the country does not look like it is moving anywhere, but as I have lived almost half my life here (and still work here) I have no plans on leaving.
I read between the lines your comment 'Doing the right thing' as 'conforming to a social norm that is expected of a family man'. Better for the kids, give them a good start in life, one they can't get here. Sacrifice the happiness, and give up the dream you dreamt about and are now living for them. Can't have both?
Ever heard of compromise?
My kids were born here. They understand this country more than I ever will. And as citizens, they have rights here too. A decent education can be had, but at a cost. They have international standard universities where one son is. He will be coming back from a one-year stint in Japan, where the uni has a reciprocal arrangement with a counterpart there. He has spent time in the US on a student exchange program. Has been offered a job by a Japanese company with the proviso he graduates first.
Bottom line, it's his choice, he has been given an opportunity. I'm still here and am not moving anywhere. It's up to the kids. That's what Mum and Dad said, we're not going anywhere, it's up to you. Your future.
Re the property. The flood damage has removed any strong attachment to material things. I'm on the wrong side of fifty anyway, and the house will eventually belong to the kids. Que Sera Sera.
I still have a 4WD and and happy with just a guitar in the back. As a friend said, life is short. Do what you want to do, not what people expect you to do.
So I am selfish. I may take a weekend off by myself to spend on a beach alone with my guitar. The kids are old enough and have their own friends, my wife would rather stay at home and watch telly (she does the same anyway if we go to a hotel somewhere as a family), so...
I go to the beach and get to keep a bit of my sanity.
P.S. As S&F says, there is no easy answer. I've found mine.
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Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
Thanks for the input Pro & Vince. I'm not really concerned about education as they are in private school and since they both have Canadian citizenship they can get university in Canada. My main concern is what will Thailand be like when they strike out on their own. They may not want to move to a strange country after spending their entire lives in Thailand. Most of us on this forum have personalities that embrace change and the adventure that comes with it otherwise we would still be living in our country of origin.
My father is like that having lived in many countries and I followed in his footsteps. However my brother and sister are the opposite. I don't know which way my children will go but if they don't want to leave Thailand what kind of future will they have in this country 20 years from now.
The corruption here is so bad already I worry that any investment I make in land could be taken away from them at the whim of some corrupt Pu Yai. What will be the job prospect for them even with a good education? Lets face it Thailand doesn't have much talent or integrity in their politicians.
Maybe I just worry too much, hopefully the AEC starting 2015 will give Thailand a kick in the ass forcing it to change for the better.
My father is like that having lived in many countries and I followed in his footsteps. However my brother and sister are the opposite. I don't know which way my children will go but if they don't want to leave Thailand what kind of future will they have in this country 20 years from now.
The corruption here is so bad already I worry that any investment I make in land could be taken away from them at the whim of some corrupt Pu Yai. What will be the job prospect for them even with a good education? Lets face it Thailand doesn't have much talent or integrity in their politicians.
Maybe I just worry too much, hopefully the AEC starting 2015 will give Thailand a kick in the ass forcing it to change for the better.
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
my son is still in kindy here,but in 20years time with a good education behind him,living in the asean area,and having the benefit of not only speaking thai fluently and understanding how thais think,as well as speaking english fluently and understanding how westerners think,he will have a huge edge on most.if he isn't up to scratch academically,imagine the opportunities he could have in tourism and/or international companies based in thailand.
I think we are wary of the thailand of now, but the thailand in the next few decades for our children will be a better place.
Thailand will have a distinct middle class by then and with that comes better education and prosperity for the people.
You only have to visit the siam paragon shopping centre in bangkok,they have a whole floor dedicated to further education for young kids,whether it be extra tutoring,music lessons its all there and its busy
I think we are wary of the thailand of now, but the thailand in the next few decades for our children will be a better place.
Thailand will have a distinct middle class by then and with that comes better education and prosperity for the people.
You only have to visit the siam paragon shopping centre in bangkok,they have a whole floor dedicated to further education for young kids,whether it be extra tutoring,music lessons its all there and its busy
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
I personally wouldn't count on 2015 ASEAN making even the slightest difference to Thailand and/or how it's run. Thais tend to do most things their way, and I can't see that changing any time soon.
As far as your kids are concerned.......would they REALLY be better off in your home country. Would the REALLY end up in a better job? I know countless people who are trapped back in their own countries, and even those with good jobs are stuck there for one reason or another.
If you kids have grown up all their lives in Thailand, then surely they should be savvy enough to figure out how things work here. In a way, I think it's actually easier for a person to succeed in Thailand if they're savvy and willing to go out and get what they are wanting. I mean, Thais are pretty much free to do whatever they want so long as they push things too far. With only half a brain in your head you could use that freedom to your advantage, so I think much of a kids's future depends not only on schooling, but also on other aspects of learning/parenting.
As someone else has mentioned, you just have to make what you think is the best decision, and then make that decision count.
As far as your kids are concerned.......would they REALLY be better off in your home country. Would the REALLY end up in a better job? I know countless people who are trapped back in their own countries, and even those with good jobs are stuck there for one reason or another.
If you kids have grown up all their lives in Thailand, then surely they should be savvy enough to figure out how things work here. In a way, I think it's actually easier for a person to succeed in Thailand if they're savvy and willing to go out and get what they are wanting. I mean, Thais are pretty much free to do whatever they want so long as they push things too far. With only half a brain in your head you could use that freedom to your advantage, so I think much of a kids's future depends not only on schooling, but also on other aspects of learning/parenting.
As someone else has mentioned, you just have to make what you think is the best decision, and then make that decision count.
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
HHC
This place is not going to change. The same political dinosaurs will be in place, or at least their hatchlings. I tend to agree with Takiap that the ASEAN thing won't change anything either. The way business is done will also remain the same.
It is still who you know, not what you know, and has been this way for ages and ages. The patronage system is too firmly rooted for any political meanderings to upset the way things have always been done. It is more for a bigger share of the pie.
That said, a kid growing up here, fluent in at least two languages, with good connections (as in the right school) has a much better advantage here than he or she would in his or her 'home' country competing with his or her peers.
Another thing to consider: you've been here (i.e. away from your home country) for 12 years. If you find it difficult to fit in everytime you visit, and can't wait to get back here, think of how your kids would feel if they got shipped off permanently? (It's for your own good. Go!) I know I feel like a stranger in my own country.
Send them off maybe for summer holidays to broaden their horizons, but ultimately let them ask for what they may want.
My friends thought I was crazy when I pulled up roots and came here 25 years ago. These days they're asking me how they can come over.
On the ground floor, companies need (and will need even more in the future) individuals capable of speaking and fully understanding both Thai and English - though you may want to add another one or two languages to that list - that individual is an invaluable asset. I have worked for international companies so have had a first-hand look at how it is.
I certainly wouldn't want my children studying in my home country only to lose their edge here. And they certainly won't have any edge over there, either.
This place is not going to change. The same political dinosaurs will be in place, or at least their hatchlings. I tend to agree with Takiap that the ASEAN thing won't change anything either. The way business is done will also remain the same.
It is still who you know, not what you know, and has been this way for ages and ages. The patronage system is too firmly rooted for any political meanderings to upset the way things have always been done. It is more for a bigger share of the pie.
That said, a kid growing up here, fluent in at least two languages, with good connections (as in the right school) has a much better advantage here than he or she would in his or her 'home' country competing with his or her peers.
Another thing to consider: you've been here (i.e. away from your home country) for 12 years. If you find it difficult to fit in everytime you visit, and can't wait to get back here, think of how your kids would feel if they got shipped off permanently? (It's for your own good. Go!) I know I feel like a stranger in my own country.
Send them off maybe for summer holidays to broaden their horizons, but ultimately let them ask for what they may want.
My friends thought I was crazy when I pulled up roots and came here 25 years ago. These days they're asking me how they can come over.
On the ground floor, companies need (and will need even more in the future) individuals capable of speaking and fully understanding both Thai and English - though you may want to add another one or two languages to that list - that individual is an invaluable asset. I have worked for international companies so have had a first-hand look at how it is.
I certainly wouldn't want my children studying in my home country only to lose their edge here. And they certainly won't have any edge over there, either.
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oakdale160
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Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
AEC--Look at the European Union.
I agree that the essential way of doing things will remain the same, That is true in the European Union too, the Italians remain Italians and the Germans German, but slowly, through the central authorities dictats some change will evolve.
The importance of the English language will certainly increase as all AEC discussions and directives will be issued in English. The smart Thais know this. The British type 'public' schools in Bangkok, Shrewsbury, Harrow, Bromsgrove etc are full to the brim with Hi-So children who speak amazingly Thai-accent-free English.
It is noticeable that the Hi-So are not anxious for these skills to be passed down to children from more modest homes.
I agree that the essential way of doing things will remain the same, That is true in the European Union too, the Italians remain Italians and the Germans German, but slowly, through the central authorities dictats some change will evolve.
The importance of the English language will certainly increase as all AEC discussions and directives will be issued in English. The smart Thais know this. The British type 'public' schools in Bangkok, Shrewsbury, Harrow, Bromsgrove etc are full to the brim with Hi-So children who speak amazingly Thai-accent-free English.
It is noticeable that the Hi-So are not anxious for these skills to be passed down to children from more modest homes.
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
The other interesting thing about them attending these schools is that many of them cannot speak Thai any more. (No, I am not kidding. Actually ran into one.) I think part of the problem lies with them being exposed to the full English program - no Thai is spoken at all, unless as a second language - at such a young age.
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oakdale160
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Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
It is interesting how a language has a culture built into it. I worked for a company, one of the Thai senior managers had spent many years in the US, his English was perfect.
If things went wrong, he would lose his temper and shout at the staff BUT he would shout in English. It was 'permissible' to be direct and angry in English more than in Thai.
If things went wrong, he would lose his temper and shout at the staff BUT he would shout in English. It was 'permissible' to be direct and angry in English more than in Thai.
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
They don't seem to have any intermediate curse words/phrases in Thai language. They all seem to be either jovial phrases that you can have a laugh about, or horrifically insulting cusses that will most probably get you killed.
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Name Taken
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Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
In Thailand there doesn't seem to be any kind of 'middle ground', it's one extreme or the other.Pleng wrote:They don't seem to have any intermediate curse words/phrases in Thai language. They all seem to be either jovial phrases that you can have a laugh about, or horrifically insulting cusses that will most probably get you killed.
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
All the worst words can be used in jest with a friend (yes, the horrifically insulting cusses you talk about. It's all about the tone, mannerisms and situation). Using any of those words to a stranger will cause a problem. What are you saying Pleng...?Pleng wrote:They don't seem to have any intermediate curse words/phrases in Thai language. They all seem to be either jovial phrases that you can have a laugh about, or horrifically insulting cusses that will most probably get you killed.
...that you'd like to be able to use swear words to strangers without a comeuppance? Only during developed altercations are those words ever said by a Thai to a stranger. You say them during a trivial situation and you could be the cause of a dangerous situation. Pretty simple really.
Who really wants to 'f' and blind at people anyway?
You evidently
I don't trust children. They're here to replace us.
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
...no shit?Lost wrote:All the worst words can be used in jest with a friend (yes, the horrifically insulting cusses you talk about. It's all about the tone, mannerisms and situation).Pleng wrote:They don't seem to have any intermediate curse words/phrases in Thai language. They all seem to be either jovial phrases that you can have a laugh about, or horrifically insulting cusses that will most probably get you killed.
I'm not talking about fing and blinding. I'm talking about middle ground. Say you have a new colleage at work and they've made an arse up of something. You can say something like "you clutz" if you want to be jovil, if it's something a bit more serious you can say something like "you idiot" which may upset them, but not usually enough to make them want to stab you.Using any of those words to a stranger will cause a problem. What are you saying Pleng...?
...that you'd like to be able to use swear words to strangers without a comeuppance? Only during developed altercations are those words ever said by a Thai to a stranger. You say them during a trivial situation and you could be the cause of a dangerous situation. Pretty simple really.
Who really wants to 'f' and blind at people anyway?
You evidently
We're not talking about altercations with strangers. You don't generally call out somebody you've only just met. You can have a long term acquaintance with somebody, maybe employee, business partner, or somebody who's built your house.... and the only way to express displeasure with something they've done is in a jovial 'mai pen rai' kind of way, which won't really convey what you want to express or a serious tone, which risks getting you on the wrong side of people.
There's no such middle ground in the Thai language
Re: Have you decided to leave Thailand and/or Hua Hin?
What has this got to do with leaving HH or Thai. Are people really leaving HH because their ability to swear in Thai is inadequate