Buddhism in crisis?

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europtimiste
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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by europtimiste » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:47 pm

StevePIraq wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:02 pm
europtimiste wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:23 pm
All religions are shit, all is about money, prestige, oppression.
I wouldn't agree with oppression but would say they are all about control of the people.


Moral oppression: Oppression about divorced couples, about birth control, about use of condoms, about abortion etc.

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by HHTel » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:05 pm

I'm agnostic so not really religious but I do respect other people's beliefs (as long as they don't ram it down my throat..... i.e. Jehova's Witnesses) and most, in turn, respect my right not to indulge. Just because you're a non-believer doesn't give you the right to sh*t on other people's beliefs. That's like ramming Atheism onto others just like the Jehova's already mentioned.

Incidentally, Buddhism does not fall into the category of 'a religion'.

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by pharvey » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:31 pm

HHTel wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:05 pm
I'm agnostic so not really religious but I do respect other people's beliefs (as long as they don't ram it down my throat..... i.e. Jehova's Witnesses) and most, in turn, respect my right not to indulge. Just because you're a non-believer doesn't give you the right to sh*t on other people's beliefs. That's like ramming Atheism onto others just like the Jehova's already mentioned.

Incidentally, Buddhism does not fall into the category of 'a religion'.
:agree: Well said HHTEL (though I hadn't realised Buddhism wasn't a religion :? )

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by HHTel » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:38 pm

Buddhism doesn't fit neatly into either category of religion or philosophy. When people asked Buddha what he was teaching, he said he teaches "the way things are." He said nobody should believe his teachings out of faith, but instead they should examine for themselves to see if they are true or not.
A religion is broadly defined in believing a higher entity. That entity is of course supernatural and demands blind faith.

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by Spitfire » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:39 pm

Well, getting back to topic, all three of the main "religions" are struggling to adapt to the new realities of the modern world. Never has society all over the world had it's values/expectations/freedoms changed so much in such a short space of time [last 50 years], and these mainstream religions are having issues to stay relevant which obviously creates discourse as they flap around to remain relevant/meaningful to the masses.

Most religions are dogmatically run by ancient "fire and brimstone" types that want everyone to harken back to the middle ages and that way of frugal life/values etc. but it won't fly with the new generations. Originally, it appears that religions where used to prevent chaos and offer structure to society so that communities could grow and progress without anarchy. That situation has changed and is no longer applicable to modern society where everyone wants to do as they please. The world has moved on thankfully.

The real challenge for them all [religions] is to embrace change and find their place if they want to survive instead of continually hardening their position on everything as that is doomed to fail. Although, I don't see much evidence to suggest they realise this and if anything they are hardening their positions on everything...wrong move imo.

There seems to be an ever larger display of a lack of these religious values espoused by all three of these religions on show everywhere and the personal adherence to these ideals are on the wane everywhere. Seems that Sodom and Gomorrah are more of a lure now in an indifferent, greedy and selfish world where vanity/narcissism rules.

I'm not particularly religious but I can see the problems that it faces and understand that, to many folks, this is an important issue, even if they don't mention it.

However, the younger generation is being dumbed down so maybe they won't worry about who controls what and says this, that and the other as long as they can keep their eyes locked into their smart phones or computers. Once the fossils that are running most countries now are gone then I foresee the younger generations overturning so much as the ones I talk to couldn't care less about so many things held dear by the current ones in power. Change is certainly coming, can't stop it and will have profound implication on religion [and other things] everywhere.
The state has a monopoly on violence - Max Weber

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by europtimiste » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:46 pm

hhinner wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:40 am
I remember a time when monks wouldn't touch money. But I'll bet that you could go along to market village almost any afternoon and see monks perusing smart phones and paying with cash. It's rains retreat now, but you can still see monks shopping during the afternoons when they're supposed to be in the temple.
Not only smartphones, I see them also in DVD rentals. Maybe for porno movies !!!!!

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by HHTel » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:52 pm

I see them also in DVD rentals. Maybe for porno movies !!!!!
Is there no limit to your ridiculous cynicism?

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by oakdale160 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:39 pm

Buddhism has the advantage is that there is no 'Church Hierarchy' No Pope, No Archbishop of Canterbury, No Immans, it is a kind of decentralized organization and as such is more flexible and will probably survive.

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by europtimiste » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 am

HHTel wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:52 pm
I see them also in DVD rentals. Maybe for porno movies !!!!!
Is there no limit to your ridiculous cynicism?
REALISM not cynicism HHTel...open your eyes !!!!!!

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by europtimiste » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:07 am

oakdale160 wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:39 pm
Buddhism has the advantage is that there is no 'Church Hierarchy' No Pope, No Archbishop of Canterbury, No Immans, it is a kind of decentralized organization and as such is more flexible and will probably survive.
I agree with you oakdale160. Here we are talking about crisis not only in Buddhism but generally. A religion who impose celibacy to his priests and monks create rapists, pedophiles and homosexuals (if they were not already before). Those people are human beings and have natural desires. If imposed celibacy there is only one solution: castration.

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Re: RE: Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by hhinner » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:37 am

oakdale160 wrote:Buddhism has the advantage is that there is no 'Church Hierarchy' No Pope, No Archbishop of Canterbury, No Immans, it is a kind of decentralized organization and as such is more flexible and will probably survive.
No church hierarchy. But Buddhism in Thailand is organised exactly like a religion with a hierarchy of priests and a controlling council. Not to mention a parallel state control organ - National Office of Buddhism.

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by StevePIraq » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:11 am

And Buddhism in Thailand does The Supreme Patriarch or Sangharaja (Thai: สังฆราช; rtgs: Sangkharat) is the head of the order of Buddhist monks in Thailand.
"Live everyday as if it were your last because someday you're going to be right." Muhammad Ali

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by HHTel » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:43 pm

europtimiste wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 am
HHTel wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:52 pm
I see them also in DVD rentals. Maybe for porno movies !!!!!
Is there no limit to your ridiculous cynicism?
REALISM not cynicism HHTel...open your eyes !!!!!!
My eyes are well and truly open. Everyone knows that bad news is reported far more than good news. 28,000 temples and over 400,000 monks, the majority of which I believe are genuine. The Catholic church has been through some very bad press periods. Do you believe that every Catholic priest is either a paedophile, a rapist or worse.
If a family member commits murder, does that make the whole family murderers?

You are tarring every monk with the same brush because some monks are bad. So monks go shopping in the afternoon - they're entitled to. They rent DVD's which in your eyes are probably 'porn'. That's why I used the word 'cynicism'. It's not realism by any stretch of the imagination.
You should get real!

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by europtimiste » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:32 pm

HHTel wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:43 pm
europtimiste wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 am
HHTel wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:52 pm


Is there no limit to your ridiculous cynicism?
REALISM not cynicism HHTel...open your eyes !!!!!!
My eyes are well and truly open. Everyone knows that bad news is reported far more than good news. 28,000 temples and over 400,000 monks, the majority of which I believe are genuine. The Catholic church has been through some very bad press periods. Do you believe that every Catholic priest is either a paedophile, a rapist or worse.
If a family member commits murder, does that make the whole family murderers?

You are tarring every monk with the same brush because some monks are bad. So monks go shopping in the afternoon - they're entitled to. They rent DVD's which in your eyes are probably 'porn'. That's why I used the word 'cynicism'. It's not realism by any stretch of the imagination.
You should get real!
I see regularly monks buying DVD and read what I wrote : Maybe porno movies. MAYBE , not sure.

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Re: Buddhism in crisis?

Post by europtimiste » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:37 pm

HHTel wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:43 pm
europtimiste wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 am
HHTel wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:52 pm


Is there no limit to your ridiculous cynicism?
REALISM not cynicism HHTel...open your eyes !!!!!!
My eyes are well and truly open. Everyone knows that bad news is reported far more than good news. 28,000 temples and over 400,000 monks, the majority of which I believe are genuine. The Catholic church has been through some very bad press periods. Do you believe that every Catholic priest is either a paedophile, a rapist or worse.
If a family member commits murder, does that make the whole family murderers?

You are too kind to the catholic priests. If only some cases I would agree with you, but it's worldwide: USA., Ireland, UK, France, Switzerland, Australia etc........And if the church doesn't do anything it's worse.

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