Tax Residency (bank requirements)

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dundrillin
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Re: Tax Residency

Post by dundrillin » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:57 am

JohnD wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:55 am
A Singapore bank recently asked where I was resident for tax purposes, when opening a second account.
As my main account was at another local branch and I was a long term customer, I bluffed my way out of the question.
Looks like this was new requirement for new customers.

A few years ago, I worked in India and they would not pay me (tax free) until I produced a document stating that I had paid tax in the previous year. Basically, I had to prove I was resident elsewhere for tax purposes.

My point is that soon a document will be required to show that you paid tax (or nil tax) recently, before you can access banking services, etc. This is based in escalating international agreements for such, to combat tax evasion.
Can such document be obtained in Thailand for those here on long term stay visas, with no income here (or anywhere)?
This is quite correct,I went to Singapore and tried to open an account with Standard Chartered,I was rejected as I did not live or work there.
I am exploring further possibilities as I can foresee a future Labour Government bringing in exchange controls.( they are already planning for it) Has anybody got any suggestions?

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Re: Tax Residency

Post by Dannie Boy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:38 am

dundrillin wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:57 am
JohnD wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:55 am
A Singapore bank recently asked where I was resident for tax purposes, when opening a second account.
As my main account was at another local branch and I was a long term customer, I bluffed my way out of the question.
Looks like this was new requirement for new customers.

A few years ago, I worked in India and they would not pay me (tax free) until I produced a document stating that I had paid tax in the previous year. Basically, I had to prove I was resident elsewhere for tax purposes.

My point is that soon a document will be required to show that you paid tax (or nil tax) recently, before you can access banking services, etc. This is based in escalating international agreements for such, to combat tax evasion.
Can such document be obtained in Thailand for those here on long term stay visas, with no income here (or anywhere)?
This is quite correct,I went to Singapore and tried to open an account with Standard Chartered,I was rejected as I did not live or work there.
I am exploring further possibilities as I can foresee a future Labour Government bringing in exchange controls.( they are already planning for it) Has anybody got any suggestions?
Who else do you bank with e.g. HSBC in the UK offer HSBC Offshore accounts and they have pestered me in the past to open an offshore account?

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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by JohnD » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:47 am

I did a quick check on Google - lots of data and forms pop up from different countries - regarding "certificate of residence for tax purposes".
DBS Bank in Singapore, has one for "SELF CERTIFICATION ON TAX RESIDENCY STATUS".
Bulgaria requires that you live there for 183 days a year....
Etc. Etc.

If you are filing annual tax returns somewhere, then this certificate can be obtained from those tax authorities.
But if you are not working and not permanently resident somewhere, this certificate which will subsequently become a routine document required for banking - becomes a problem.
Like to think one could be obtained in Thailand if you are retired and living here for most of the year, as the requirement on 'residency' could be met?

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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by JohnD » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:03 pm

One thing I missed in my post above - the TIN (Tax Identification Number) - as issued by country concerned.
You need this on your piece of paper, so that the new bank can share your information with any other bank or authority.
Don't think you pass the sniff test unless you have this (formally issued) ready for your new bank.
Hopefully, existing bank accounts held for some years will not push for this just yet.

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Re: Tax Residency

Post by dundrillin » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:07 pm

Dannie Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:38 am
dundrillin wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:57 am
JohnD wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:55 am
A Singapore bank recently asked where I was resident for tax purposes, when opening a second account.
As my main account was at another local branch and I was a long term customer, I bluffed my way out of the question.
Looks like this was new requirement for new customers.

A few years ago, I worked in India and they would not pay me (tax free) until I produced a document stating that I had paid tax in the previous year. Basically, I had to prove I was resident elsewhere for tax purposes.

My point is that soon a document will be required to show that you paid tax (or nil tax) recently, before you can access banking services, etc. This is based in escalating international agreements for such, to combat tax evasion.
Can such document be obtained in Thailand for those here on long term stay visas, with no income here (or anywhere)?
This is quite correct,I went to Singapore and tried to open an account with Standard Chartered,I was rejected as I did not live or work there.
I am exploring further possibilities as I can foresee a future Labour Government bringing in exchange controls.( they are already planning for it) Has anybody got any suggestions?
Who else do you bank with e.g. HSBC in the UK offer HSBC Offshore accounts and they have pestered me in the past to open an offshore account?
Thanks Dannie Boy. I'm with RBS at the moment, I'll try HSBC. They should be a better bet all round as RBS charge £30 to transfer cash abroad.

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Re: Tax Residency

Post by johnjar » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:51 pm

dundrillin wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:07 pm
Dannie Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:38 am
dundrillin wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:57 am


This is quite correct,I went to Singapore and tried to open an account with Standard Chartered,I was rejected as I did not live or work there.
I am exploring further possibilities as I can foresee a future Labour Government bringing in exchange controls.( they are already planning for it) Has anybody got any suggestions?
Who else do you bank with e.g. HSBC in the UK offer HSBC Offshore accounts and they have pestered me in the past to open an offshore account?
Thanks Dannie Boy. I'm with RBS at the moment, I'll try HSBC. They should be a better bet all round as RBS charge £30 to transfer cash abroad.
You were rejected ...That’s true if you want to open a normal account in Singapore.

Best to apply for an offshore account which is the best account for an expat’s like us, and most of their banks offer this facility, though you will need to answer a multitude questions inc. passport details, residency details, your financial details and also your tax residency status number.

If you are accepted then as non-resident in Singapore, you are tax free from interest / dividends payments etc. Singapore is up there with the safest and best places to bank in the world...Hope this helps :)

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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by JohnD » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:35 am

If you need 'tax residency' or more specifically a TIN, then you may be able to get one issued in Thailand, as discussed under:

[Mod Edit] Links to rival forums not permitted.

The quotes below are taken from the essence of the above discussion:

!. "Anyone who has fixed accounts here has 15% withheld. Getting a Thai tax ID is the first step in getting that withholding back".

2. "Thai TIN because the U.S. demands it if I want to claim a reduced withholding tax rate on U.S. source income under the Thai-U.S. tax treaty. So there is a real benefit to me in the U.S. if I get the Thai TIN".

3. "I actually needed it to open an offshore account with Santander Jersey".

You may be one (or more) of the 3 categories above?

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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by StevePIraq » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:25 am

Lloyds have come back to me stating my statements that I am not resident for taxation purposes anywhere are not acceptable. The form I received now states the following
For individuals, tax residence generally relates to the country(ies) where you live and work or where you have, or have had, the obligation to file a tax return.
Question.
As I do not file a tax return in Thailand how can I be resident here for taxation purposes
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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by StevePIraq » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:35 am

As to opening an offshore account anywhere, here is a dedicated thread

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22793&p=302569&hili ... ng#p302569
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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by buksida » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:00 pm

I had a similar invasion of privacy from HSBC who wanted all kinds of info I wasn't prepared to give them. Closed the account and moved to Standard Chartered Singapore instead.
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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by Dannie Boy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:46 pm

StevePIraq wrote:Lloyds have come back to me stating my statements that I am not resident for taxation purposes anywhere are not acceptable. The form I received now states the following
For individuals, tax residence generally relates to the country(ies) where you live and work or where you have, or have had, the obligation to file a tax return.
Question.
As I do not file a tax return in Thailand how can I be resident here for taxation purposes
I managed to speak to somebody at HSBC and explained my circumstances i.e. that I have no income in Thailand and no tax obligations but that I had UK state and private pensions and therefore pay UK tax on both. He said he was happy to record the UK as my only country for tax residence purposes - hopefully I will not hear from then again (until they ask the same questions in 3-5 years).


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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by JohnD » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:28 pm

I think international banks now have an obligation to carry out due diligence regarding (new) customers tax affairs.
A credible story helps a lot. Being an prior long term customer can make the questions go away, as I found out.

What is interesting for me - after reading on the web - is that it is possible to get a Thai tax ID - with no local income.
Depend in which part of Thailand you live.
If I remember.,, the Thai Tax Office in Pattaya will tell you to go away, and not waste their time.
In some parts, the authorities do issue a Thai ax ID without any local income.

If you were trying to get back Thai withholding tax on say a deposit account, then I think they would be obliged to issue a Thai Tax ID.
My fall back position is try to get a Thai Tax ID, if it becomes a 'must have' at a later date (e.g. they say they will close your bank account without Tax ID). Eventually, it will come to that as they gradually tighten requirements.

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Re: Tax Residency (bank requirements)

Post by StevePIraq » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:51 pm

It is all explained at the following link, it appears Thailand has not signed up to sharing of data

http://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-excha ... .en.345489
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