New rules for farang fathers of Thai children wanting O Visa

[advocate]

You would likely not be allowed to leave the country with your children, as they are Thai citizens and minors, unless you were with their mother or you have legally adopted them. By legally adopting them, you never have to worry about custody issues or having them used as pawns for financial settlement.

[buksida]

You would likely not be allowed to leave the country with your children, as they are Thai citizens and minors.

Would this be the case if they were leaving on a non-Thai passport?

How about starting a new thread on the adoption process for those interested? It maybe a necessary step if more of these ludicrous clampdowns are in the pipeline.

[Takiap]

You would likely not be allowed to leave the country with your children, as they are Thai citizens and minors, unless you were with their mother or you have legally adopted them. By legally adopting them, you never have to worry about custody issues or having them used as pawns for financial settlement.

Out of principle, I would not be willing to adopt my own bloody children. Saying that, I am married. How on earth can you adopt kids that are already yours in the first place. just the fact that they allow such a joke to happen here shows their mentality.


BTW, you can leave the country with your children, on a Thai passport or a foreign passport. I myself have taken our kids out of the country and was never questioned by anyone. Of course if you are divorced and the courts gave your ex custody of the kids, she could have you stopped, but only if she was able to act quick enough. At the end of the day, there are many ways to skin a cat. I just feel sorry for the guys who will inevitably be held to ransom because of this new move, if indeed it is true.

[advocate]

Immigration in western countries have strict controls to prevent child abduction and are suspicious of a parent taking a child out of the country if the other parent is not present. Only a matter of time before Thailand follows suit.

As far as principles go, I would rather adopt my son than be coerced into signing a marriage certificate. I do know fathers who have been held up for ransom for wanting to see their children. That can never happen to me, as adoption is irrevocable, and she is no longer his legal mother.

Don't want to hijack this thread but thought the above merited a response.

[Takiap]

I hear you advocate, and I do understand where you're coming from. What I said about taking your kids out of the country, was actually more to do with couples who are still married, or in cases where a court has not yet awarded either parent custody of the children. If I were to wake up tomorrow and board a plane out of here with the kids, how could anyone legally stop me? After all, there's no law stipulating that a couple's children are only permitted to be in the country where they were born, or where there Mother was born. I doubt my wife could even stop me from travelling abroad with our kids because until a court decides otherwise, we would both have custody. I think the argument is even stronger if your kids have citizenship in the Father's country as well as in Thail, since Thai law actually allows this until they turn 20.

I don't consider myself to be an irrational person, and in my case, if Mrs Takiap and I were to get divorced, I would more than like consent to her getting custody, since she'll more than likely be around a lot longer than me, and also because she's a responsible person, and a very decent person. If on the other hand a wife proves herself to be an irresponsible Mother with very little genuine concerned for anyone but herself, then, if it was me, i do would do whatever it takes to protect the well being of my kids, even if it meant using questionable tactics.

We all hear stories of Farang who come here, they fall in love, they have kids, and after a few years, their wives are sleeping around, gambling, etc, etc, etc. In the past, you would have been able to divorce her and not have to worry about not seeing your kids. If this recent development is indeed true, such wives can clearly call the shots - you either shut up and do what I want you to do, or else I divorce you and you don't see you kids. If you ask me, this is actually inviting trouble.

Also, what about child support? I'm sure you'll inevitably have Fathers who think.............if I can stay in the country and see my kid/kids, why should I send money over every month to support them? The government kicked their Father out, so the government can support them.

Obviously this is not the type of attitude one should have, but it's sure to happen on occasions.


All I'm saying is, in my case, I would put the kids welfare first, irrespective of what stupid rules or regulations are passed. As a parent, I am obligated to do what's best for them.


This latest rule, if true, is a blatant denial of not only a father's rights, but also the rights of children. Who gives the prime minister or any other person for that matter, the right to decide whether or not a child can see their father, especially if their father has done nothing to suggest he's a bad or unfit Father.


Sorry guys, but although this new rule doesn't affect me, it clearly shows the current administration's true colors. Perhaps the generals weren't so bad after all....lol.

[PeteC]

We need a report from a few people applying outside of the UK. It sounds to me as if perhaps the UK statistics on type of visa application, and reason given, is way above the curve as compared to other locations. Just a hunch. Pete

[lomuamart]

It appears as though this directive has originated from the MFA and been sent to all Thai Embassies and consulates. I stress "appears" as it's very early days.
I'd agree that reports from other countries as well as the UK would be useful.

[margaretcarnes]

You would likely not be allowed to leave the country with your children, as they are Thai citizens and minors, unless you were with their mother or you have legally adopted them. By legally adopting them, you never have to worry about custody issues or having them used as pawns for financial settlement.

Not the case Advocate. We really need a post here from HHTel - who I have already e mailed about this new rule.
But Luuk Kreung children can certainly be taken to the UK by a farang father alone. It has happened. And there is also the issue of Luuk Kreung children supposedly (until now it seems) being treated as dual nationality until they are 18 - at which point they have to decide which nationality - and passport - they wish to adopt.

And still no response to my earlier point about gender in all of this mess. For the UK Consuls to issue such a directive aimed at farang fathers is ultimately discriminatory and therefore illegal. They are ignoring the fact that there could be UK mothers of Luuk Kreung children, and are thereby leaving themselves wide open to mega legal challenges.

OK, in answer to points about how we prove all this stuff one way or another, I will be doing a little research with my local Consul and will report back as and when. I don't expect a very quick response. Don't hold your breath.

[advocate]

My divorced sister was recently denied entry into the US from Canada with her children at a Canadian border crossing and was told she could not take the children out of the country w/o a notarized letter of consent from her ex or a court order. She had to get the court order.

I stand corrected, as it appears Thailand has no system in place to guard against child abduction or child trafficking at border crossings. I suggest that this will not continue forever, and that eventually Thailand will tighten it's rules on departures, and that farangs will eventually come under scrutiny and require documentation to remove children from the country.

[advocate]

If this law is challenged on the basis of discrimination, all it would take to make the law non discriminatory and legal is confirmation from the embassy that the law also applies to women.

[bapak]

As published at another place...

"Update from the Royal Thai Consulate in Hull (UK).
Following my recent message on the topic ‘Non Imm Visa When You Have Thai Child’ I can now inform you that, non-immigrant visas can be granted to persons only if they can show that they have legal custody of the Thai child living in Thailand.”

Alan P Taylor
Hon Consul

[advocate]

As published at another place...

"Update from the Royal Thai Consulate in Hull (UK).
Following my recent message on the topic ‘Non Imm Visa When You Have Thai Child’ I can now inform you that, non-immigrant visas can be granted to persons only if they can show that they have legal custody of the Thai child living in Thailand.”

Alan P Taylor
Hon Consul

Being named on the birth certificate as the father grants no automatic custodial rights unless you sign a marriage certificate. Since Thailand does not recognize common law marriage and there is a legal presumption that the mother has custody, it appears that you either have to get legally married or adopt your children, in order to qualify under the new rules.

[Big Boy]

And there is also the issue of Luuk Kreung children supposedly (until now it seems) being treated as dual nationality until they are 18 - at which point they have to decide which nationality - and passport - they wish to adopt.

The decision age was 21. However, I can confirm that it is no longer an issue.

My son, aged over 21 has just received his Thai birth certificate, and is in the process of arranging a Certificate of Identity C.I. to allow him to travel to Thailand with no visa. As soon as he gets to Thailand, he needs to be entered into my wife's Tabien Ban, at which stage he can get his Thai Passport.

Throughout the above process, he has had to show his British Passport, English Birth Certificate etc. We have also had to have documents legalised through the British FCO. There is no issue with Luuk Kreung children holding dual nationality.

Incidentally, my wife has held dual nationality for about 17 years also.

[JimmyGreaves]

Hua Hin Immigration require you to now have custody of you son/daughter to apply for an extension of stay based on supporting your family. Not sure if this has always been the case or if it started when the same O visa requirement rule came out last month. Anyway it's put me up the Kyber pass.

Any tips on getting Custody and family lawyer recommendations? Time frames etc. Ranong here I come again!

Things here are gently eating away at me arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[Big Boy]

JG, I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I know many Thai ladies who have brought their children to the UK. To do this, they have to have custody. In their case, they've needed a letter from the father, attested by the Amphur.