http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... of-bangkok
A tale of two sides of Bangkok
A tale of two sides of Bangkok
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
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margaretcarnes
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A tale of two sides of Bangkok
A wise and caring man. Lets hope he is typical of future generations.
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
Re: A tale of two sides of Bangkok
Hmmm....margaretcarnes wrote:A wise and caring man. Lets hope he is typical of future generations.
"A young boy approached my car, begging for money. I rolled down the window.
Me: 'Do you have something to sell, son?' (The boy shook his head.)
Me: 'Do you have a rag to wipe my window?' (The boy shook his head.)
Me: 'Don't beg for money, son. Work for it. Earn it.' "
Obviously child labour is not a problem for him!
Jaime I agree but when living in third world countries one has to accept that the family must work to support the family. Family survival is paramount.
When living in Isaan I often had conversations with headmasters and teachers who despaired at school absentees. Only when I realised that the sowing and reaping of crops is a function requiring the whole family to participate in order to make some money to survive the long periods of time when no rice or cane was being sown or harvested.
Only the relatively rich can make sure their children get a proper education such that they can climb the status/financial ladder
Compulsary education is not enforced in Thailand.
Once again. Family survival is paramount and those strong enough and able must work to keep those too old and imfirmed
When living in Isaan I often had conversations with headmasters and teachers who despaired at school absentees. Only when I realised that the sowing and reaping of crops is a function requiring the whole family to participate in order to make some money to survive the long periods of time when no rice or cane was being sown or harvested.
Only the relatively rich can make sure their children get a proper education such that they can climb the status/financial ladder
Compulsary education is not enforced in Thailand.
Once again. Family survival is paramount and those strong enough and able must work to keep those too old and imfirmed
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
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margaretcarnes
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A tale of two sides of Bangkok
I hear where you're coming from Jaime, but we can't judge by our Western standards. As Richard rightly says whole families must help out with harvests etc. I don't see that as child labour in the 'traditional' sense - sweatshops etc - but simply being brought up with work and family ethics.
The young lad mentioned in the original post was at least discouraged (once anyway) from begging - which Thais take a dim view of - and advised to work for his money. But until there is a welfare state in Thailand these things will continue.
It would be interesting to hear an American view on children working - both Americans and Brits would soon complain if our newspaper deliveries were banned!
The young lad mentioned in the original post was at least discouraged (once anyway) from begging - which Thais take a dim view of - and advised to work for his money. But until there is a welfare state in Thailand these things will continue.
It would be interesting to hear an American view on children working - both Americans and Brits would soon complain if our newspaper deliveries were banned!
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
IMO, work ethic has to start an an early age. About 3 simply by enforcing taking their own snack plate and milk container from the living room table into the kitchen and put it in it's proper place to be washed, thrown away. This has to increase step by step as they grow concerning chores, instilling a sense that they have responsibilities as well as purpose in the family/household.
As the author mentions in the article, the little emperors and princesses everywhere grow up with someone following them around picking up everything. Not a good formula in producing a responsible adult.
The above is based upon not having to work for financial survival, just teaching proper behaviour. Those who have to help support a family by working in the fields here achieves the same work ethic, but it's shouldn't be at the expense of their education. Unfortunately many parents don't understand that concept as they're not educated themselves. The government doesn't enforce education even though laws are on the books. There's a new education minister who talks similar to the author of this piece. One can only hope.
When a family sinks to the level of their children having to beg, unfortunately I'm afraid the child finds himself in a Catch 22 situation. Want to eat, beg, and no other choice. As Mags says, no social net here. Begging goes to stealing, to drugs, to organized crime etc., many times as the child has no good role model, just street people.
The author has made the issue public, and people are talking about it as Sabai Jai mentions, That's good. However, the controlling elite here will give lip service and smiles and sweeping but empty programs, and inside couldn't care less about the masses. I'm convinced this place is headed for a civil war or the resurgence of a very active communist party. Off topic but related. The three hear/speak/see nothing monkeys are alive and well in this land.
Anyway, bottom line, instill a work ethic from an early age, but don't force a child into having to make a living from an early age. Pete
As the author mentions in the article, the little emperors and princesses everywhere grow up with someone following them around picking up everything. Not a good formula in producing a responsible adult.
The above is based upon not having to work for financial survival, just teaching proper behaviour. Those who have to help support a family by working in the fields here achieves the same work ethic, but it's shouldn't be at the expense of their education. Unfortunately many parents don't understand that concept as they're not educated themselves. The government doesn't enforce education even though laws are on the books. There's a new education minister who talks similar to the author of this piece. One can only hope.
When a family sinks to the level of their children having to beg, unfortunately I'm afraid the child finds himself in a Catch 22 situation. Want to eat, beg, and no other choice. As Mags says, no social net here. Begging goes to stealing, to drugs, to organized crime etc., many times as the child has no good role model, just street people.
The author has made the issue public, and people are talking about it as Sabai Jai mentions, That's good. However, the controlling elite here will give lip service and smiles and sweeping but empty programs, and inside couldn't care less about the masses. I'm convinced this place is headed for a civil war or the resurgence of a very active communist party. Off topic but related. The three hear/speak/see nothing monkeys are alive and well in this land.
Anyway, bottom line, instill a work ethic from an early age, but don't force a child into having to make a living from an early age. Pete
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
I am not so naive as to not realise that this is Thailand and that Children work in the developing world by necessity. But there is a big difference between helping with the family rice harvest and standing at a traffic interchange in the centre of Bangkok with a rag for a journalist's windscreen.
So, the article has generated some debate - good. But it is in an English language newspaper so the Thai proles will never be aware of it. And, if the debate is about whether to buy flowers from a flower seller or not the bigger picture has been completely missed - i.e. the education system as alluded to by Richard.
Seems to me that the writer takes some moral high ground to expose hypocrisy and double standards in his fellow countrymen and, presumably, expats but exposes his own in the process.
So, the article has generated some debate - good. But it is in an English language newspaper so the Thai proles will never be aware of it. And, if the debate is about whether to buy flowers from a flower seller or not the bigger picture has been completely missed - i.e. the education system as alluded to by Richard.
Seems to me that the writer takes some moral high ground to expose hypocrisy and double standards in his fellow countrymen and, presumably, expats but exposes his own in the process.
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margaretcarnes
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A tale of two sides of Bangkok
It IS a shame Jaime that kids have to be out on the city streets late at night. And as Pete rightly says - their education shouldn't have to suffer. But it does of course - not only in Bangkok, but Pattaya and other places (Bintabahn was mentioned) where the flower sellers are out all hours.
Maybe serious civil unrest - even civil war - isn't too far away. Ideally social change should be gradual. That isn't happening, so in the meantime I think we have to stifle our western ideals to a large extent.
Lets not forget though that not so long ago school kids in the UK (and probably many other western countries) were also needed to help at harvest times. Those few days off school didn't rob them of their childhoods or education - but we have school attendance laws which are strictly applied. We also still have a hidden army of child carers, but that's another story.
At least that journalist has made his thoughts known in print, and it's a start. We shouldn't assume that it won't be understood by the 'Thai proles' - many of whom are educated in Europe. Which might just be one of the problems - assimilating European culture and carrying on with that lifestyle back home while ignoring the needs of the lower classes.
Maybe serious civil unrest - even civil war - isn't too far away. Ideally social change should be gradual. That isn't happening, so in the meantime I think we have to stifle our western ideals to a large extent.
Lets not forget though that not so long ago school kids in the UK (and probably many other western countries) were also needed to help at harvest times. Those few days off school didn't rob them of their childhoods or education - but we have school attendance laws which are strictly applied. We also still have a hidden army of child carers, but that's another story.
At least that journalist has made his thoughts known in print, and it's a start. We shouldn't assume that it won't be understood by the 'Thai proles' - many of whom are educated in Europe. Which might just be one of the problems - assimilating European culture and carrying on with that lifestyle back home while ignoring the needs of the lower classes.
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
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margaretcarnes
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A tale of two sides of Bangkok
In the absence of an edit function can I just sort my proletariats from my bourgoisie (if I can spell it!) and acknowledge the error. I should of course have said that the elite are often educated abroad. Hopefully they will read the article
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.