Urgent Answer Please!. Resort owners committees.

[Green Nomad]

Hello All,

I am needing to find out soonest. The question is---

On a resort residential development, once the builder has completed the work, is it normal for the residents to self manage the running of the place as a residents committee, accepting money for maintenance and the like. Bearing in mind that as farangs, we are not legally allowed to run such a thing even with not being paid. Unless a work permit is held.

Anyone had similar experience with this?...Thanks GN

[Takiap]

Not sure from a legal point of view, but many developments are run that way. I think the authorities simply turn a blind eye, safe in the knowledge that you're at their mercy, should they ever wish to flex their muscles.

[Green Nomad]

Thanks Takiap,

Thats what some of us have been saying, however we want to be sure we are not taking on a problem and also have to deal with immigration officials. But yes, if its the norm and we plan correctly than should be ok, but we have lots of residents who believe to the contrary, and that the builder is obliged to continue the control of the development..GN

[dtaai-maai]

... but we have lots of residents who believe to the contrary, and that the builder is obliged to continue the control of the development..GN

I'm trying to think why that would be the case, and also in many cases why you would want it to be!
The development I am in is about 8 years old and a partnership between the residents and the developer seems to work well enough. The last one I lived in, it was all down to the owners. When I say 'owners', I mean farang owners. By and large, Thai owners aren't interested.
In my experience of renting on 2 developments, the main problem is some ex-pats falling back into "committee member" mode and getting all self important.

[icebear]

Either the development is under management by the developer or by the residents themselves (with a juristic company set up), depending on the contract.

The developer has to complete at least 75% of all the development and has to give notice by registered letters to owners of the impending change. Until then they're also responsible for the security of the place.

Eventually, the owners have to come together and form a committee and take over, but this will take time.
Also an official hand-over should take place and probably their is seed-money from the developer to be handed-over much later. For this action at least 3 house owners have to sign upon transfer, etc. and everything has to be in order.

If you follow all the required steps, the land department will back you up should an owner decide not to pay the dues/water/elec, etc.

Foreigners can run the association without work permit.

[Shakeman]

Hi

If you feel you may not have the capabilities of running the development due to various reasons after sign over, which the developer can legally do with notice and usually with a handover period to help with any learning curves. You could also instruct a management company to take control of this answering to all owners via period letter of accounts.

Some one like engle volkers, cbre, colliers international would take care of this . Obviously you would have to take in account a payment for this , so your communal charges may well increase. Or maybe not ,the appointed agents may find a solution too minimise certain costs the developer couldnt and they may run a tighter ship.

Hope that helps

[Arcadian]

My house in on a development which is now run by a residents` committee, a mixture of European and Thais. It works very well and the annual fees are non-profit making unlike when it was run by the developer who saw it as a profit making exercise. It has been a bit of a struggle to get everyone to pay their share but now all is up to date.

[Green Nomad]

Thanks all, we had a meeting today and all was explained to us to the same effect. So yes we are hoping that ours also works well. GN

[hhfarang]

It's kind of all up to the will of the Thai Gods and the particular developer. Some want to keep control so they can milk you for extra money on top of the electric, water, and common area maintenance bill, but if you can I would think it would be better for all that it be taken over by a homeowner's association once construction is completed.

[Whaler]

It's kind of all up to the will of the Thai Gods and the particular developer. Some want to keep control so they can milk you for extra money on top of the electric, water, and common area maintenance bill, but if you can I would think it would be better for all that it be taken over by a homeowner's association once construction is completed.

I think it's how much you trust your developer ours at RM is unquestionable and part of our purchase contract and keeps the developement at a high standard

IMO anyone is welcome to a few bhts for organising and paying our electricity/water/Internet/tv/gardening/pool/waste/secuirty/taxi shuttle/street lighting/basic maintenance and painting etc etc

Maybe if you getting less you may want a homeowner's association, best of luck.

[Super Joe]

WERACHON LAW OFFICE:
What is the Juristic Person Homeowners Association ?
Juristic Person means legal entity or a person created by law.
Moobaan means a housing estate project having a license from the government. The law requires that the housing developing project having more than nine plots (ie: 8 house plots and a road) must obtain the license.

Homeowners Association:
Under the Housing Estate Development Act 2000, the developer is responsible for management of the project for up to 2-3 years, but once more than half the houses have already been sold and the developer cannot object to handing over to the owners. The owners can then register the Juristic Person, which must be made at the Land Office.

How accurate, current or otherwise the above is I have no idea, I've never been able to track down an official version of the 'Act'.

There's two important points to bear in mind when considering these 'Home Owners Associations'...
.
1) The legal right to join/vote etc is the 'owners', not the 'residents' / 'leaseholders' / 'Usufructaries' etc. If you leased off your wife, or developer, then that person can/should be the person at the meeting voting on the properties behalf.
.
2) If the development was not issued with a 'Land Allocation' license/permit to sub-divide the plots, then the owners are not entitled to the above, and instead have to form very complicated Limited Company structures I believe. Most developments outside Bangkok Metro do NOT obtain the permits/licenses. In this case informal 'residents associations' are often formed, as Arcadian's example.

It's kind of all up to the will of the Thai Gods and the particular developer. Some want to keep control so they can milk you for extra money on top of the electric, water, and common area maintenance bill

Not according to the law, but obviously trying to enforce it is a entirely different matter which I guess is where you're coming from HHF. And from a practical point of view, ie: you're dealing with a well-connected developer, then I would put my money in their corner before what the law says. But according to the 'Act', once the 51% number has been achieved then the owners have the legal right to take over the management of affairs.

Hello All,
I am needing to find out soonest. The question is---
On a resort residential development, once the builder has completed the work, is it normal for the residents to self manage the running of the place as a residents committee, accepting money for maintenance and the like. Bearing in mind that as farangs, we are not legally allowed to run such a thing even with not being paid. Unless a work permit is held.
Anyone had similar experience with this?...Thanks GN

So I think the answer to your question in the OP is the following:
1) If owners want to take over, they can once 51% of plots are sold... BUT presumably that requires a majority, & the developer may well be the majority land holder!?
2) If owners do not want it, & nor does the developer it seems developer is 'stuck' with it for "2-3 years"... is that '2-3 years' from start, finish, once 51% are sold or what!?
Under the Housing Estate Development Act 2000, the developer is responsible for management of the project for up to 2-3 years, but once more than half the houses have already been sold and the developer cannot object to handing over to the owners.

Clear as mud ain't it anyone know anything more concrete??

SJ

[Super Joe]

Thanks all, we had a meeting today and all was explained to us to the same effect. So yes we are hoping that ours also works well. GN

On the 'working well' front, if you are not able to form a 'Juristic' Association because of the license/permit issue, and you do not go the official Limited Company route, then the association would lack the rights to enforce payment from disgruntled current owners or future new owners who were not happy with arrangements. All can be well until the estate Hitler gets to be Chairman, I've seen this occur.

Whereas under the Juristic set-up I believe you can suspend utilities in event of non-payment, even access to common areas which may be the entrance road, and an owner will be prevented from selling/leasing their property by the Land Office until they cleared their debts with the Association.

SJ