Motorbikes and Thai Dogs - How Big A Hazard?

[sandman67]

I think Dawn said the govt wont go culling the feral ones because its against Buddhist beliefs.... theres also the ever stupid mai pen rai attitude to take into account.

Spitfire I agree entirely....these arent "dogs" or pets.....they are semi feral threats.

I think they are a bloody menace myself, and would be happy if they were culled. Would be pretty simple to tell....no collar....BANG! Collar but running up and down a soi snarling.....BANG! The rule should be if you have a dog its stays on your property and/or on a leash.

Problem is that the Thais would be very unhappy at that, and they would only go an get more.....within a year or two the problem would be just as bad.

The problem near me is karaoke bar owners letting their snarling monsters run loose. Any that wander into my sub soi get used as paintball target practice. Seems to be working.....

Maybe if a few tourists get attacked the local govt will do something....till then I doubt anything will happen.

[PeteC]

These stories bring up old memories. When I first arrived in late 1969 at Takhli, the first job given to me was to literally ride shotgun in a jeep and shoot any and all dogs on the base. Rabies shots then were in the stomach and would warrant a man being sent home rather than stay in country. So, for the first 15 days, that's all I did, 12 hours a day. We piled the dogs on to the tailgate of the jeep and took them to the dump at the Thai side of the base. Once there, we were greeted by half the local Thai village with big smiles, who took the dogs home to the cooking pot. Black dogs first, given to the important village people, down to the white or near white dogs which went to others.

So, they don't kill them but they sure as hell eat them. Pete

[HHTel]

With regard to culling. I've seen a 100% cull when just one rabid dog went berserk. A few years ago in Nongkaam, a rabid dog, went wild on the soi. My neighbour eventually killed it with an iron bar. It took some killing. Shortly afterwards, the local authorities moved in and killed every animal in the village including newborn pups. No matter whether the dog was collared, tied up, on it's owners property or whatever. Every dog was killed. Of course, now there are just as many dogs, owned and stray, as there were before.

The point I'm making is that culling would only be effective in the short term. The local people would soon build up the dog population again.

[kendo]

I think Dawn said the govt wont go culling the feral ones because its against Buddhist beliefs.... theres also the ever stupid mai pen rai attitude to take into account.

Spitfire I agree entirely....these arent "dogs" or pets.....they are semi feral threats.

I think they are a bloody menace myself, and would be happy if they were culled. Would be pretty simple to tell....no collar....BANG! Collar but running up and down a soi snarling.....BANG! The rule should be if you have a dog its stays on your property and/or on a leash.

Problem is that the Thais would be very unhappy at that, and they would only go an get more.....within a year or two the problem would be just as bad.

The problem near me is karaoke bar owners letting their snarling monsters run loose. Any that wander into my sub soi get used as paintball target practice. Seems to be working.....

Maybe if a few tourists get attacked the local govt will do something....till then I doubt anything will happen.

Sandman and Spitfire i define a pet, as a tame animal that you keep as a companion or part of your family unit that you can give affection too, and receive a kind of affection and an emotional attachment from. These dogs don't come anywhere near this, in our village there is so many dogs, we had real problems trying to keep them off the wet concrete when the builders where constructing the drive way i had 20 people there just to shoo them away.

Sandman can you get paint ball guns and ammo in Thailand, hummm, intresting i would like to do a survey in my village, climb the village water tower and pick off as many of these muts as possible. The next day have a census and see how many there are and now many new one's that just pass through.

[DawnHRD]

[quote="HHTel"]With regard to culling. I've seen a 100% cull when just one rabid dog went berserk. A few years ago in Nongkaam, a rabid dog, went wild on the soi. My neighbour eventually killed it with an iron bar. It took some killing. Shortly afterwards, the local authorities moved in and killed every animal in the village including newborn pups. No matter whether the dog was collared, tied up, on it's owners property or whatever. Every dog was killed. Of course, now there are just as many dogs, owned and stray, as there were before.

The point I'm making is that culling would only be effective in the short term. The local people would soon build up the dog population again.[quote]

Well, at least someone has a brain.

This thread is hateful and abhorrent. It's less about any real dog problem than it is about machismo.

No point arguing. You all obviously know it all. Good luck in sorting out the problem - and there is one - I've tried to help for 5 years. I'm sure you lot'll have it solved in 5 minutes.

[Spitfire]

Nobody is having a pop at you Dawn, personally, I think what you do is very commendable, and if the posts are read properly then many have implied that. Most here are just speaking a general opinion, mixed with experience and observations as the problem is hopelessly out of control.

If there were more people that took your approach then it would probably be backed by most on this forum. It would take a massive shift in the locals opinion along the lines of responsibility, rather than the usual selfish Bull****.

But at the moment, it's just 'sandcastles on the beach' as far as that is concerned. However, keep doing what you do as someone has to start change.

[lindosfan1]

Dawn is right in what she said.
There are quite a few people involved with these soi dogs.
several points
1. They are mammals if humans are threatened or continuously taunted or annoyed they will attack that is a natural instinct. Kicking at them while riding a bike stupid idea, Firing paint pellets at them Sandman if I were a dog you would be my no 1 target I bet the dogs near you really love you, not a good idea you may become dog enemy no 1.
2. My dog will savagely bark at you if you come near to the house, good that is his job to protect the property and me.
3.I have never been chased by dogs when on my bike nor has my partner, I do not believe the picture that has been painted about all these packs of dogs chasing bikes unless they have been provoked.
4 Why are the dogs there, this is due to mostly Thais getting a puppy then kicking it out on the street when they get fed up with them also very few neuter there dogs so kick out one weeks later puppies. There is a programme on neutering in HH at the moment. which will improve the situation.
5.If you have a problem with Soi dogs in a large pack contact the tessabahn who will sort them out (Dawn can you confirm that one please)
6 The comment in the telegraph pointed out by Margeret Carnes sbout animal attacks increasing across the world one reason for this is we are depriving them of their natural habitat. we would all do that if deprived of our homes by outside sources
7 What Dawn has said is correct try to be constructive in a positive way, suggesting kicking paintballing or annoying these animals is really pathetic.

[kendo]

This thread is hateful and abhorrent. It's less about any real dog problem than it is about machismo.
Dawn please dont take this as hateful i am an animal lover, but human safety come's hire up my list than semi wild vicious dogs that rome free, you can't tell me that you havent seen a Thai kid with facial scares from a dogs bite, we have all seen many there two that i know of in our village.

For the record Dawn if myself and my wife was in HH now, we would be the first people to offer you help to move house, you may think this thread is macho crap but not all people are animal lovers, i am too a point, and thats more than some posters but i really dont see many people anywhere in Thailand that likes these dogs.

No offence intended Dawn.
Kendo.

[Spitfire]

There have been many good points made from all sides of the coin here, but the real problem is that the Thais are unwilling to 'bite the bullet' on this one.

Sorry folks, but there is a massive problem here and it's left to people like Dawn to do somethimg about it, which is, IMHO wrong.

The 'powers that be' need to do Thailand the service of 'sorting it out'.

I'm sorry, but it's completely unacceptable as it stands now. People should not wonder why so many think negative things on this one.

To be honest with everyone, my wife, kid and myself are much more important than some feral monster.

[Vital Spark]

This thread is hateful and abhorrent. It's less about any real dog problem than it is about machismo.

I agree with you totally Dawn. You work with 'ferel' dogs all the time, and how many times have you been attacked? Rhetorical question, probably very few times. I think (duck for the bullets here) that the problem may be caused by the attitude of the human, rather than the dog. They do have a sixth sense...

VS

PS: Good luck in your move, but it's a long way from Hua Hin. What's happening to the Headrock Dog Centre?

[kendo]

Dawn is right in what she said.
There are quite a few people involved with these soi dogs.
several points
1. They are mammals if humans are threatened or continuously taunted or annoyed they will attack that is a natural instinct. Kicking at them while riding a bike stupid idea, Firing paint pellets at them Sandman if I were a dog you would be my no 1 target I bet the dogs near you really love you, not a good idea you may become dog enemy no 1.
2. My dog will savagely bark at you if you come near to the house, good that is his job to protect the property and me.
3.I have never been chased by dogs when on my bike nor has my partner, I do not believe the picture that has been painted about all these packs of dogs chasing bikes unless they have been provoked.
4 Why are the dogs there, this is due to mostly Thais getting a puppy then kicking it out on the street when they get fed up with them also very few neuter there dogs so kick out one weeks later puppies. There is a programme on neutering in HH at the moment. which will improve the situation.
5.If you have a problem with Soi dogs in a large pack contact the tessabahn who will sort them out (Dawn can you confirm that one please)
6 The comment in the telegraph pointed out by Margeret Carnes sbout animal attacks increasing across the world one reason for this is we are depriving them of their natural habitat. we would all do that if deprived of our homes by outside sources
7 What Dawn has said is correct try to be constructive in a positive way, suggesting kicking paintballing or annoying these animals is really pathetic.

Lindo have you ever been up north to Isaan and spent any time in a village ?
I am sure there are others that can relate to what i say about packs of these wild dogs that run through the villages.
If you dont belive that, next year on my arrival meet me in Bangkok and you are welcome to come and spend a week at my house in a village up in Surin and see what village life is all about you can even bring your Lab as i do like domestic pets.
This dog issue is a big one, but don't you agree human safety is more important than these animals, mammal's or not.


Kendo.

[Vital Spark]

Sorry, bit of a rant here:

I've spent the last five years 'training' the kids next door not to tease my non-aggressive dog. They wave sticks at him over the wall, throw things at him, and get great delight when he gets agitated and barks

It's the people that need education, not the dogs to be culled.

Lindosfan is absolutely right in what he says.

VS

[Big Boy]

kendo wrote:

Lindo have you ever been up north to Isaan and spent any time in a village ?
I am sure there are others that can relate to what i say about packs of these wild dogs that run through the villages.

I know exactly where you are coming from. To me the worst moment is getting up for a slash in the middle of the night (too dark/scary to find the official toilet), and you're stood in a clearing doing what you have to do. Then in the distance you hear the pack of dogs coming your way, shuffling through the undergrowth, snarling all of the way. The only weapon in you hand ............ well lets just say its not big enough to fend them off. I've been there a few times - scared witless as they get closer. Fortunately, on each occasion they were not interested in either me or the piece of meat in my hand - they simply passed me by, but always growling. I have no idea what they were looking for.

[margaretcarnes]

Exactly my point VS. The battle here is changing peoples mentality, and a national policy of neutering. Sadly pigs will fly first.
Pete makes a good point though about HH itself, and has probably heard, or even witnessed, the nighttime beach shootings in Pattaya. It caused problems at one time with tourists finding bodies of dogs on the beach, so may have stopped?
I do agree that noone wants to see either adults or children mauled by dogs. Attacks on kids seem to be on the increase in the UK as well, but I always wonder if the child has provoked the animal in some way - and often the owners don't control them (the dogs, that is. But even that's debatable!)

[DawnHRD]

OK, I'm not going to argue & of course I value human safety more than dogs.

But, taking some points from posts:

I haven't seen any kids scarred from dog bites. I don't dispute that it happens or that they exist, just answering the question posed to me.

I have never been bitten deliberately by a dog. I have been bitten accidentally by trying to separate fighting dogs. Having said that, I do have lightning reflexes now where dogs are concerned & am pretty expert at reading them, so I know when I'm likely to get bitten & don't chance it. Most people don't have the benefit of that experience.

If you're waiting for the govt (local or national) to sort this problem, I wouldn't hold your breath. Their idea of sorting it out is to make microchipping mandatory & fine owners. It might work in a rich society where pet dogs are more valued than money. Here it will create more problems.

Yes, the locals are a huge part of the problem. Everything from dumping unwanted pups to refusing neutering to the way some of them treat dogs. I was up at the center alone about a week ago & two Thai guys made a detour to walk right past our center (we're not directly on the road, so no need to go past us) We have about 6 of our dogs that live outside and a few more Tessadban dogs who've adopted us. They came charging at the dogs with a cudgel. Even tried to chase them into the center itself. I screamed at them (really bright idea, that!! ) and they went. If that's the mentality of the locals, is it any wonder the dogs are wary & or viscious? We've all seen instances like that or similar. Or the kids taunting dogs, as VS mentions.



Thanks for the wishes about the move VS. HRD will continue, but I'll eventually wind the shelter part down. We'll deal more with community based projects in temples etc & neutering & vaccinating. For the moment, though, I've got a long commute by bus every day facing me.