I though this an interesting question and decided to make it a poll. I realize there are always shades in between but everyone will tend towards one or the other. You probably know already which one you are, so please vote first then read the following text, which should get you thinking as to what experience you are creating for yourself.
'The optimist is right. The pessimist is right. The one differs from the other as the light from the dark. Yet both are right. Each is right from their own particular point of view, and this point of view is the determining factor in the life of each. It determines as to whether it is a life of power or of impotence, of peace or of pain, of success or of failure.
The optimist has the power of seeing things in their entirety and in their right relations. The pessimist looks from a limited and a one-sided point of view. The one has their understanding illuminated by wisdom, the understanding of the other is darkened by ignorance. Each is building their world from within, and the result of the building are determined by the point of view of each.
The optimist, by their superior wisdom and insight, is making their own heaven, and in the degree that they make their own heaven are helping to make one for all the world beside. The pessimist, by virtue of their limitations, are making their own hell, and in the degree that they make their own hell are they helping to make one for all mankind.
You and I have the predominating characteristics of an optimist or the predominating characteristics of a pessimist. We then are making, hour by hour, our own heaven or our own hell; and in the degree that we are making the one or the other for ourselves are we helping make it for all the world beside.'
From 'In Tune With The Infinite' by Ralph Waldo Trine...
http://www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTekITWTIContents.html
Are You an Optimist or Pessimist?
Re: Are You an Optimist or Pessimist?
Interesting topic given the current climate but this definition is way too simplistic and I certainly don't feel I belong in either camp.MrPlum wrote:'The optimist is right. The pessimist is right. The one differs from the other as the light from the dark. Yet both are right. Each is right from their own particular point of view, and this point of view is the determining factor in the life of each. It determines as to whether it is a life of power or of impotence, of peace or of pain, of success or of failure.
The optimist has the power of seeing things in their entirety and in their right relations. The pessimist looks from a limited and a one-sided point of view. The one has their understanding illuminated by wisdom, the understanding of the other is darkened by ignorance. Each is building their world from within, and the result of the building are determined by the point of view of each.
The optimist, by their superior wisdom and insight, is making their own heaven, and in the degree that they make their own heaven are helping to make one for all the world beside. The pessimist, by virtue of their limitations, are making their own hell, and in the degree that they make their own hell are they helping to make one for all mankind.
Does, for example, recognising the current political and economic situation in Thailand and weighing up your options, make you an optimist, a pessimist....or a pragmatist? And does burying your head in the sand and just hope everything is going to get better make you an optimist and how will that affect your happiness and prosperity?
I think 'Pragmatist' should be added to the poll as I feel that quite a few of us would feel a lot more comfortable under that category.
Answers on a postcard.
Never trust a hippy....
Hi Heebio
'never trust a hippy...' That's funny.
I think Shakespeare said 'there is no good or bad, only thinking makes it so' (or words to that effect). I don't think he was a hippy.
You are right. I certainly see myself as more of a pragmatist. With the world being the way it is, it's not easy to be universally positive. I've also had long periods where I've had neither highs nor lows. More a constant steadiness. I also would take issue with the idea that pessimists are in a state of ignorance. Perhaps they actually know too much! In fact I took some comfort from a belief expressed to me by a Guru in India that those who suffer the most are the 'oldest souls'.
I think by ignorance the author is suggesting that even though pessimists may be right, that they are nevertheless still creating their own state of being and in that respect are 'ignorant'. They could reframe their view of the world by focussing on the positive aspects rather than the negative or as meditators do, simply observe the drama and not get drawn into it.
There are times when passing clouds send us into a bit of a funk, like losing our assets in the markets, but optimists tend to come out of this much more quickly than pessimists. Equally someone who tends towards pessimism might be currently madly in love and floating on a cloud. These are transient states where we can distract ourselves for brief periods but we always have to come back to ourselves.
This is why I talked about tendencies rather than get into the grey areas.
70% Positive and 30% Negative so far. It seems HH is blessed with a generally happy crowd...
...unless the pessimists are too depressed to vote
I'm tempted to ask a follow up question... 'Why are you an optimist?' but I think it has been asked before in different ways.
Sunshine, good food, affordable living, attentive partners, beautiful setting, few signs of violence, great massages, golf? and foreigners who are generally pleasant to each other. I know my neighbours are a tolerable lot.
I won't ask why the nays are pessimistic, since illness, divorce, loss of job/financial security, being violently assaulted are all justifiable reasons for feeling the blues and are maybe a bit too personal to declare on a public message board.
Thanks for voting.
'never trust a hippy...' That's funny.
I think Shakespeare said 'there is no good or bad, only thinking makes it so' (or words to that effect). I don't think he was a hippy.
You are right. I certainly see myself as more of a pragmatist. With the world being the way it is, it's not easy to be universally positive. I've also had long periods where I've had neither highs nor lows. More a constant steadiness. I also would take issue with the idea that pessimists are in a state of ignorance. Perhaps they actually know too much! In fact I took some comfort from a belief expressed to me by a Guru in India that those who suffer the most are the 'oldest souls'.
I think by ignorance the author is suggesting that even though pessimists may be right, that they are nevertheless still creating their own state of being and in that respect are 'ignorant'. They could reframe their view of the world by focussing on the positive aspects rather than the negative or as meditators do, simply observe the drama and not get drawn into it.
There are times when passing clouds send us into a bit of a funk, like losing our assets in the markets, but optimists tend to come out of this much more quickly than pessimists. Equally someone who tends towards pessimism might be currently madly in love and floating on a cloud. These are transient states where we can distract ourselves for brief periods but we always have to come back to ourselves.
This is why I talked about tendencies rather than get into the grey areas.
70% Positive and 30% Negative so far. It seems HH is blessed with a generally happy crowd...
...unless the pessimists are too depressed to vote
I'm tempted to ask a follow up question... 'Why are you an optimist?' but I think it has been asked before in different ways.
Sunshine, good food, affordable living, attentive partners, beautiful setting, few signs of violence, great massages, golf? and foreigners who are generally pleasant to each other. I know my neighbours are a tolerable lot.
I won't ask why the nays are pessimistic, since illness, divorce, loss of job/financial security, being violently assaulted are all justifiable reasons for feeling the blues and are maybe a bit too personal to declare on a public message board.
Thanks for voting.
Last edited by MrPlum on Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Let no one who has the slightest desire to live in peace and quietness be tempted, under any circumstances, to enter upon the chivalrous task of trying to correct a popular error."---William Thoms
I've always been an optimist as in youth one's options are always wide and open
Now I'm on a fixed pension and due to ill health virtually restricted in my options, I'm growing a little bit more pessimistic. However my optimism always wins.
Must be a bit of Eastern blood in me as I find 'never despair, don't worry. there's a solution round the corner'
How many really stressed Thais have you met? Go to sleep and wake up with 5 solutions syndrome
Great thread
My options in the current situ here is to sit tight and wait and see and then
Stay in HH
Go to the UK
Go elsewhere
Go to Isaan
Now I'm on a fixed pension and due to ill health virtually restricted in my options, I'm growing a little bit more pessimistic. However my optimism always wins.
Must be a bit of Eastern blood in me as I find 'never despair, don't worry. there's a solution round the corner'
How many really stressed Thais have you met? Go to sleep and wake up with 5 solutions syndrome
Great thread
My options in the current situ here is to sit tight and wait and see and then
Stay in HH
Go to the UK
Go elsewhere
Go to Isaan
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
Mr P and Richard....I agree with both of you, it's a very grey area and IMO is very much about indvidual tastes and perspectives.
Take music as an analogy - some people think artists like Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits and even The Smiths are completely depressing. Others, myself included, chuckle at these opinions and feel completely uplifted by the dry humour and intelligence of the lyrics and beauty of the music.
Who's right and who's wrong? Does it make me an optimist or a pessimist for having tastes that some people perceive as dark and depressing. All in the perspective.
Back to the current situation. I'm personally coming round to the conclusion that I have no choice but to look at working options back in the UK, but only for a couple of years, when I am firmly of the opinion that the global and Thai economy will be getting back on their feet and I will hopefully be able to return here.
To me that makes me both pragmatic and, longer term, optimistic. But some people might think I'm being pessimistic. There's no right or wrong.
But I still can't vote in this poll because I really can't say if I'm leaning one way or the other.
Take music as an analogy - some people think artists like Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits and even The Smiths are completely depressing. Others, myself included, chuckle at these opinions and feel completely uplifted by the dry humour and intelligence of the lyrics and beauty of the music.
Who's right and who's wrong? Does it make me an optimist or a pessimist for having tastes that some people perceive as dark and depressing. All in the perspective.
Back to the current situation. I'm personally coming round to the conclusion that I have no choice but to look at working options back in the UK, but only for a couple of years, when I am firmly of the opinion that the global and Thai economy will be getting back on their feet and I will hopefully be able to return here.
To me that makes me both pragmatic and, longer term, optimistic. But some people might think I'm being pessimistic. There's no right or wrong.
But I still can't vote in this poll because I really can't say if I'm leaning one way or the other.
Never trust a hippy....
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sandman67
- Rock Star
- Posts: 4398
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:11 pm
- Location: I thought you had the map?
im a sort of optimistic pragmatist.....
i believe the human race will "get there" eventually....but i also recognise we are a bunch of small minded ars*****es who will kick the stuffing out of each other getting there....
put another way:
when asked whether the glass is half full or half empty.... I ask whose round it is!
i believe the human race will "get there" eventually....but i also recognise we are a bunch of small minded ars*****es who will kick the stuffing out of each other getting there....
put another way:
when asked whether the glass is half full or half empty.... I ask whose round it is!
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
Following on from my last post it all depends on your individual circumstances
Some guys who've been her some time may have wife and family, business connections. Their options are even more restricted
Some guys who've been her some time may have wife and family, business connections. Their options are even more restricted
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
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Wanderlust
- Legend
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
richard,
I think your choice of word there - restricted - indicates pessimism, as some might see it differently and say something like less complicated, an easier choice or similar. Basically if you have no choice why bother worrying about it? In fact why bother worrying at all? Easy to say of course but worrying never solved anything, just makes you feel bad. If you can think of a way to give yourself more choices, then do it. I think this is part of what makes up optimists and is one of the differences with a pessimist. The pessimist will say it's not worth trying it won't work, and the optimist will say, why not and you won't know if you don't try.
I think your choice of word there - restricted - indicates pessimism, as some might see it differently and say something like less complicated, an easier choice or similar. Basically if you have no choice why bother worrying about it? In fact why bother worrying at all? Easy to say of course but worrying never solved anything, just makes you feel bad. If you can think of a way to give yourself more choices, then do it. I think this is part of what makes up optimists and is one of the differences with a pessimist. The pessimist will say it's not worth trying it won't work, and the optimist will say, why not and you won't know if you don't try.