The Rugby Thread

[PeteC]

SCO by 5
WAL by 3
IRE by 21

Picks from the heart, probably not reality!

[dtaai-maai]

Picks from the heart, probably not reality!

"WAL by 3"

"From the heart"???

May the fleas of a thousand camels infect your armpits and your extremities be bitten off one by one by an alligator snapper turtle.

[PeteC]

^ The only way it may happen is if Wales drink whatever tonic they have in the locker room at half time, and put on a 2nd half display like they did last week against Scotland.

(This advertisement was paid for by Pharvey)

[pharvey]

Well..... B*ll*cks!! I don't think either Test Match was the greatest for the neutral, but certainly edge of your seat stuff for respective supporters. There'll certainly be some "discussion" over a few of the refereeing decisions, but overall (for once) I thought the refereeing was pretty much fair overall - some rules however should be questioned perhaps.

England vs Wales

NOT the result I wanted for obvious reasons. Wales will be hurting at the result, but ultimately the major difference for me was at Fly-Half - Ioan Lloyd was no doubt targeted by England and it showed as did his inexperience in the position. He was given very little time on the ball, got flustered at times and his indecision/poor decision making led to the Lillywhites' first try. Ford on the other hand controlled the game superbly for England, his kicking game was top notch where Lloyd's was poor in comparison - England won the aerial game throughout.

England's Rush/Blitz defense worked far better than it did against Italy, but Wales did break it at times - they did to be fair also take their chances well on the whole. Wales' defense was superb at times, but there were lapses out wide at times also - England took full advantage..

Some great performances in both forward packs - Tommy Reffell (Wales) and Earl (England) in particular, the latter taking "Player" of The Match

Zero to question over the 3 Yellow Cards (England x 2, Wales x 1) other than the fact Wales should have done far better with the advantage. England managed them better than Wales, slowing the game down (legally) and must have "skimmed" a good 5 minutes with slow walks to lineouts, slow, slow scrums, rucks and mauls - and ultimately excellent control from North.

I truly hate to say it, but a fair result and win for the Lillywhites - Wales though can take away a lot of positives (including another Bonus Point)!

Scotland vs France

Well, this is where the "discussions" regarding refereeing decisions and "rulings" will come into play!! The Sweaties will feel absolutely robbed of the win as their "Try" in the final seconds of match was not given. Many (including myself) believe it was a try, but this is where rules in the strictest sense come into play. The Ref's on-field decision was "No Try - Ball Held Up" - it was then taken to the Video Ref. After initially being held up (by a leg/arm), the ball then "seemed" to have been rolled off and grounded for a Try. BUT as the initial decision was "No Try" and there was no "CONCLUSIVE PROOF" otherwise, the initial decision stood.... No Try!

France were again far from their best and they are certainly missing Dupont at Scrumhalf, both for his play and captaincy. They just seemed rudderless at times and the coach's mass substitutions did little to help - he'll be under a spot of pressure I believe....

This was Scotland's for the taking and they lost it rather than France winning it. A couple of poor decisions cost them very dearly IMHO - they certainly should have come away with more points from France's Yellow Card.

Here's to an Italian win tomorrow - that'll blow things wide open!!

[pharvey]

Just a Note regarding this season's 6 Nations and today's matches. It's the first time Smart Mouth-Guards have been brought into play at international level with HIAs. They were brought into Men's Rugby on January 1st: -

Taken From: - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67441501

"Smart Mouth-Guards are the latest innovation in smart sports technology. They aim to improve player welfare and provide a key to understanding the hidden damage of head trauma.

Thanks to research carried out at Ulster University, smart mouthguards are, for the first time, due to be incorporated in the head injury assessment protocols (HIA) at the elite level in time for the next Six Nations in February 2024.

The mouthguards are fitted with micro-sensors that measure the force and acceleration in the head when there is a collision.

The sensors also calculate the number of knocks a player experiences, as damage to the brain can also be caused by an accumulation of smaller impact events.

The data is then fed back to the medical team's computers on the touchline, where it can be assessed to determine whether a player should be called off for a head injury assessment (HIA).

The mouthguards have already been in use in the men's and women's Premiership in England"

[pharvey]

SCO by 5
WAL by 3

Picks from the heart, probably not reality!

They weren't far from reality PeteC!!

[404cameljockey]

England vs Wales
I truly hate to say it, but a fair result and win for the Lillywhites - Wales though can take away a lot of positives (including another Bonus Point)!

One definite positive is that you fixed your lineout.

I understand the ref's comments on the video of the last non-try, but can't agree, there was no way even a finger could be between that ball and the grass! But it's a tough job, and he considered it thoroughly, so no crying from me, bonus point gone. As you say, some other decisions were mystifying, and I look forward to rules clarification on when a conversion kicker's approach to the ball has started.

[dtaai-maai]

... but overall (for once) I thought the refereeing was pretty much fair overall

Somehow I didn't think you'd have a problem with the ref in the England-Wales game, since most of the questionable decisions were in Wales' favour!

James Doleman from NZ was the ref, and I hope I never see him again. Humourless, pedantic and far too slow is how I would describe him. And hopeless at the scrum: he let the outclassed Welsh youngsters get away with murder as they did what they could to avoid being pulverised. Reset after reset after reset, particularly in the 1st half.

- some rules however should be questioned perhaps.

Oh boy!

Law 8.14
The opposing team at a conversion
All players retire to their goal line and do not overstep that line until the kicker moves in any direction to begin their approach to kick. When the kicker does this, they may charge or jump to prevent a goal but must not be physically supported by other players in these actions.

Why are the words 'in any direction' in there FFS? How can a sideways or backwards movement be an approach to the ball? No sane person could honestly say that Ford had started his approach, even the Welsh lads were half-hearted about it, except for one eternal optimist who'd seen the ref wasn't going to do anything. There has to be room for an element of common sense to be applied.

Which leads nicely into the closing moments of the Scotland game...

I understand the law - it quite clearly states that the on-field decision must stand unless there is clear evidence to the contrary. But again, common sense should come into it. No one, anywhere, of any nationality, could possibly believe that the ball did not touch the ground.

Test cricket had an almost identical problem a few years ago. If there was some doubt about a catch being taken cleanly, the umpire would have to give a 'soft' - i.e. on-field - decision when requesting a review. The 3rd umpire would then have the same remit as in rugby; complete certainty in order to overturn that soft decision. The problem was solved quite simply by leaving the decision to the 3rd umpire. If rugby had the same sensible approach, Scotland would have won and justice would have been done.

[dtaai-maai]

Lightening the mood a tad, have you seen this article about Ray Gravell, Pietro? I hope not, as you'll love it.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... source=nba

[pharvey]

Somehow I didn't think you'd have a problem with the ref in the England-Wales game, since most of the questionable decisions were in Wales' favour!

Oh dear another Sunday moan dearest .... And what questionable decisions were they in particular? Certainly not with the Yellow Cards... Perhaps with the Ref ignoring Ford taking out Dyer late on (I guess not)? Oh, the "Charge Down"!! Well, I could give you that - but then again it's the Ref's interpretation and the rules do state...

James Doleman from NZ was the ref, and I hope I never see him again. Humourless, pedantic and far too slow is how I would describe him. And hopeless at the scrum: he let the outclassed Welsh youngsters get away with murder as they did what they could to avoid being pulverised. Reset after reset after reset, particularly in the 1st half.

Oh come on... "Reset after reset after reset, particularly in the 1st half....." - indeed, along with the slow walks to the Lineouts.... All during England's Yellow Card periods when they wanted to slow the game down and waste time!! Wales, pulverised..? Err... Nope

Test cricket had an almost identical problem a few years ago. If there was some doubt about a catch being taken cleanly, the umpire would have to give a 'soft' - i.e. on-field - decision when requesting a review. The 3rd umpire would then have the same remit as in rugby; complete certainty in order to overturn that soft decision. The problem was solved quite simply by leaving the decision to the 3rd umpire. If rugby had the same sensible approach, Scotland would have won and justice would have been done.

Well, as I've said, I also believe it was a Try but the decision also followed the Rules (daft as some may be). As to the "3rd Umpire" as you put it, the decision was ultimately made by the TMO after he had looked at multiple camera angles and advised the "On-Field Referee" .....

Cheer up, you'll have the chance to shout for Scotland again in a couple of weeks.... Oh, hang on!!

[pharvey]

Lightening the mood a tad, have you seen this article about Ray Gravell, Pietro? I hope not, as you'll love it.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... source=nba

Good God DM.... What's happened? Have you had a crack to the head? YOU, reading Wales Online?

Yes, I've seen/heard the stories - something I'd loved to have seen!! Thanks for the link though, an enjoyable read.

"Grav" actually took our training at Age Grade Rugby a few times in my (much) younger years - cracking guy. Can't believe it's 17 years since he passed

[404cameljockey]

Italy: After England laboured to victory over the Azzurri in Rome in Six Nations round one, there were hopes that Quesada’s upwardly-mobile team might pose Ireland a few questions in Dublin. But the visitors were completely outclassed, Ireland showing England how to despatch inferior opposition."

As I said, it seemed possible that Italy has turned up with an improved team/style this year, unless Ireland beat them by 30 points. It happened. My jury's still out though, I'm waiting to see how they fare against the other three teams, after being beaten by the side that looks streets ahead of the rest.

[pharvey]

Italy: After England laboured to victory over the Azzurri in Rome in Six Nations round one, there were hopes that Quesada’s upwardly-mobile team might pose Ireland a few questions in Dublin. But the visitors were completely outclassed, Ireland showing England how to despatch inferior opposition."

As I said, it seemed possible that Italy has turned up with an improved team/style this year, unless Ireland beat them by 30 points. It happened. My jury's still out though, I'm waiting to see how they fare against the other three teams, after being beaten by the side that looks streets ahead of the rest.

Unfortunately, I completely missed the first half.... But I think I can still make the odd comment after seeing the highlights of the first 40 and the next...

Ireland have a multitude of players to select from, strength in depth and an incredible Regional/Club scene - the support is similar to that of the French sides. England also have a mass to choose from.... Wales, Italy and Scotland don't have the same luxury unfortunately, but can and will certainly give a game to many whilst building up towards 2027 - France are a worry, World Champions in the making and then in troubled times (?), simply due to the loss of a Scum-Half and Captain? I'd love to see Edwards getting pissed off and come back to join Gatland in Wales....

You mention Italy being much improved (which they are) cameljockey and the 30pnt defeat you foretold with your Crystal Bollocks - you also seem to have forgotten to mention the injuries Italy suffered before facing Ireland and the effect that had on the (limited) squad.

Would be interesting to see what teams would/could be selected if qualification laws were changed to Parents only and 5 years + residency. Ireland and Scotland would look VERY different, England and Wales would lose/gain a couple and France......(?)

[dtaai-maai]

Unfortunately, I completely missed the first half....

Are you not going to share with the forum the reason why you missed it...?

[404cameljockey]

Unfortunately, I completely missed the first half....

Are you not going to share with the forum the reason why you missed it...?

If it were me (having gone to sleep and missed a whole match sometimes) the answer would be boring. So yes, I'd love to know too!