Foreign property lures are rejected

[Khundon1975]

I can’t understand anyone building a house on land they don’t own in Thailand, using a 30 year lease. Easier to buy a beachfront condo.

[Benroon]

I can’t understand anyone building a house on land they don’t own in Thailand, using a 30 year lease. Easier to buy a beachfront condo.

With a Usufruct, whats the problem?

House versus Condo? I'll take a house with a private pool thanks

[buksida]

I can’t understand anyone building a house on land they don’t own in Thailand, using a 30 year lease. Easier to buy a beachfront condo.

Indeed. Usufruct's are only as good as the land office's word (which can be bought). I know people who have still lost property with these and leases (most of which aren't worth the paper they're written on). A condo is the safer way if you want some ownership rights. Renting is even safer.

Maybe they'll give the Chinese property rights with their free visas (they own most of the country anyway) ...

[HHTel]

I've known a few guys with a usufruct. The real danger is if you're married to the owner. On divorce a court can cancel all agreements made between the couple which would include a usufruct.
Here's what the law says, for what it's worth.

https://thailawonline.com/usufruct-agreements-thailand/

[Benroon]

I can’t understand anyone building a house on land they don’t own in Thailand, using a 30 year lease. Easier to buy a beachfront condo.

Indeed. Usufruct's are only as good as the land office's word (which can be bought). I know people who have still lost property with these and leases (most of which aren't worth the paper they're written on). A condo is the safer way if you want some ownership rights. Renting is even safer.

Maybe they'll give the Chinese property rights with their free visas (they own most of the country anyway) ...

The people you know who have lost property holding a usufruct - what was the reason they 'lost it'?

Usufruct documents are very much worth the paper they are written on, infact for the price they are a no brainer imo. Before every sale land is checked against these and if in place cannot be sold from under you. (How many times have we heard that has happened), similarly if a land owner wants to take out a LEGITIMATE loan from a bank etc against land with a usufruct' that will be checked too (according to Bangkok bank) so the wife won't be able to feed her gambling habit from that. Though it may not help if she's borrowed it from the lcal mafia!

With a land office seal, whether it has been bought or not is the land offices problem, it won't be yours. You will have a registered stamped document with a searchable reference number and they presumably won't have any record of any payment if there is anything suspect to implicate you (payment to a lawyer to arrange it legitimately is circa 10k)

There is so much nonsense written about usufructs derailing expats with stuff that just isn't true. With a good lawyer it's as safe as houses (excuse the pun). Divorce is of course another aspect but then personally if I'm getting divored I'm probably not going to want to stay in the house and would happily settle for the judges split of assets. But then again of course under the 'undue enrichment' laws, with a very very good lawyer you might just get more than is the norm but thats another can of worms.

[buksida]

The people you know who have lost property holding a usufruct - what was the reason they 'lost it'?

Divorce/separation, dodgy lawyers, corrupt land office officials. Definitely not "nonsense" or another "old wives tale" for the poor bastards that have lost property they paid for.

Caveat emptor ... and don't listen to dodgy real estate developers or agents who say you can own land by whatever means.

[GroveHillWanderer]

I've known a few guys with a usufruct. The real danger is if you're married to the owner. On divorce a court can cancel all agreements made between the couple which would include a usufruct.
Here's what the law says, for what it's worth.

https://thailawonline.com/usufruct-agreements-thailand/

According to that article, the idea that a usufruct can be cancelled by the court on divorce is only a theoretical argument put forward by some lawyers but based on their knowledge of the legalities, that theory is incorrect and as of, "August 2023, we still do not know any usufruct cancelled by the Court if the usufruct was registered."

[Benroon]

The people you know who have lost property holding a usufruct - what was the reason they 'lost it'?

Divorce/separation, dodgy lawyers, corrupt land office officials. Definitely not "nonsense" or another "old wives tale" for the poor bastards that have lost property they paid for.

Caveat emptor ... and don't listen to dodgy real estate developers or agents who say you can own land by whatever means.

Divorce possibly, the others all fall under ' a fool and his money are soon parted' which will happen in any country they're in. But I would love to see actual reasons a court in Thailand ignored a Land Office stamped and fully searchable usufruct and their reason for doing so. If you know of any please pass it on, would be a fascinating read.

[Benroon]

I've known a few guys with a usufruct. The real danger is if you're married to the owner. On divorce a court can cancel all agreements made between the couple which would include a usufruct.
Here's what the law says, for what it's worth.

https://thailawonline.com/usufruct-agreements-thailand/

According to that article, the idea that a usufruct can be cancelled by the court on divorce is only a theoretical argument put forward by some lawyers but based on their knowledge of the legalities, that theory is incorrect and as of, "August 2023, we still do not know any usufruct cancelled by the Court if the usufruct was registered."

Exactly!

Forums can be dangerous places

[buksida]

Forums can be dangerous places when people are telling farangs they can own land. Courts and govt officials in Thailand can all be bought for the right price so a stamp on a piece of paper isn't worth much at the end of the day as some have found out.

[GroveHillWanderer]

Forums can be dangerous places when people are telling farangs they can own land. Courts and govt officials in Thailand can all be bought for the right price so a stamp on a piece of paper isn't worth much at the end of the day as some have found out.

Nobody is claiming that a usufruct allows a farang to own land. It quite clearly doesn't. But just to reiterate, according to the article linked to earlier, written by a legal firm with extensive experience in the use of usufructs, they know of no case where a properly-registered usufruct was cancelled by a court.

[buksida]

I am not a lawyer and don't have the court details, but I do know people who have lost property regardless of having these "fail safes" in place. Certain land offices have very dodgy practices so my comments are just cautioning that nothing here is as black and white, and to be aware of the risks.

The old adage, "never spend more than you can afford to lose" is appropriate, but those involved in selling real estate here may disagree.

[Dannie Boy]

I don’t know of any specific examples of this happening but it wouldn’t surprise me if occasionally it happens due to rogue practises - many of us have seen/experienced it in other forms of life, so in property scams it can possibly be done too.

Whether or not you should be unduly worried about it is down to the individual - probably 99% of individuals will never be affected!!