Today has been FA Cup 3rd Round day in England. I've just been watching the results, and all the 'Giant Killing' that has been going on.
I remember the FA Cup as being magical and something to really look forward to. Nowadays it is a complete farce.
Most Premiership teams only bother to field their fringe players/reserve team, so the fans are paying top dollar to watch reserve team football. The only exceptions are sometimes the poorer Premiership Teams whose only chance of winning a trophy is to progress in the cups competitions.
Even my team, Plymouth from the Championship, playing against another team from the Championship, Hull who are equal on points fielded a weakened side against a weakened Hull side. The only good point of the match was a bucketful of goals, and Plymouth dropped the entrance fee to 10 Pounds to watch reserve football.
I think there is too much pressure on teams at all levels these days that they don't want to risk the bookings, sending offs and injuries that come with cup games. The pressure is to maintain their league position at significant cost to what used to be the world's best cup competition.
Because of this lack of commitment, surely somebody in authority must re-think the need for the Carling (League) and Eon (FA) cup competitions. The clubs don't want it, and the fans are being ripped off.
Has Domestic Cup Football had its Day?
Has Domestic Cup Football had its Day?
Championship Stoke City 3 - 0 Plymouth Argyle 
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redzonerocker
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fa cup
i think that both the carling & fa cup favour the big four clubs.
they are the only ones able to field a 'weakened' side & manage to get away with it, generally.
the money side of things has taken over in football, the need for survival in the prem or promotion from the championship has more relevance financially than a cup run.
the champions league is also another golden carrot for the top sides.
i have to agree that football is losing its way & drifting further away from the average fan
they are the only ones able to field a 'weakened' side & manage to get away with it, generally.
the money side of things has taken over in football, the need for survival in the prem or promotion from the championship has more relevance financially than a cup run.
the champions league is also another golden carrot for the top sides.
i have to agree that football is losing its way & drifting further away from the average fan
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
rzr,
You have hit the nail on the head
How much would fans normally be expected to watch the reserve team play? Many teams are abusing their fans in these competitions. No wonder attendances are down in the earlier rounds.
You have hit the nail on the head
If they are taking the competition seriously, why should they field a 'weakened side? Mind you, Oldham fielded 5 reserves yesterday and didn't do too badly.they are the only ones able to field a 'weakened' side & manage to get away with it
How much would fans normally be expected to watch the reserve team play? Many teams are abusing their fans in these competitions. No wonder attendances are down in the earlier rounds.
Championship Stoke City 3 - 0 Plymouth Argyle
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redzonerocker
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fa cup
the top four sides in the prem between them have won the fa cup for the past 12 seasons & more often than not played each other in most of the finals.Big Boy wrote: If they are taking the competition seriously, why should they field a 'weakened side? Mind you, Oldham fielded 5 reserves yesterday and didn't do too badly.
one solution to give the fa cup a much needed boost, scrap 4th place champions league qualification & allow fa cup winners into the champions league??
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
I know the top 4 sides regularly win the competition, but it is the farce en-route.
If my team are lucky enough to draw one of the top 4 in the next round, tickets will be as rare as rocking horse dung, and for what? Thousands of Plymouth supporters will pay top money to see their heros play against a team of reserves.
In the unlikely event of Plymouth winning, what will they have achieved - a victory against a team of players who are not good enough to play in the Premiership. Yes, we'd feel great about the victory, but it would be meaningless.
Maybe teams should be made to name a 'cup squad' at the start of each season of maybe 16 players. There could be provision to allow a small number of changes (through transfer) to that squad. That way, the squad playing in round 3 should be the same squad playing in round 8 - eliminating the farce that currently goes on.
If Man Utd or Arsenal name a squad of reserves, so be it. Fans will know exactly what they're getting for their money. At least the glory boys will not be brought in just for rounds 7 and 8.
If my team are lucky enough to draw one of the top 4 in the next round, tickets will be as rare as rocking horse dung, and for what? Thousands of Plymouth supporters will pay top money to see their heros play against a team of reserves.
In the unlikely event of Plymouth winning, what will they have achieved - a victory against a team of players who are not good enough to play in the Premiership. Yes, we'd feel great about the victory, but it would be meaningless.
Maybe teams should be made to name a 'cup squad' at the start of each season of maybe 16 players. There could be provision to allow a small number of changes (through transfer) to that squad. That way, the squad playing in round 3 should be the same squad playing in round 8 - eliminating the farce that currently goes on.
If Man Utd or Arsenal name a squad of reserves, so be it. Fans will know exactly what they're getting for their money. At least the glory boys will not be brought in just for rounds 7 and 8.
Championship Stoke City 3 - 0 Plymouth Argyle
Points 48; Position 20
Points 48; Position 20
Thai Tam,
I've just come to my computer to re-open this thread myself - you've beat me to it.
WHAT A FARCE - THE 2 MANAGERS THOUGHTS WERE OBVIOUSLY ON THE LARGER COMPETITIONS - COULDN'T RISK PLAYING A FULL TEAM
OK, lets not take anything away from the Barnsley supporters - the scenes at the end of the match showed what this cup competition is all about. I feel really pleased for them.
Unfortunately, the best team is not going to win the competition this year. All of the big 4 have exited through sheer complacency. Yes it was fun watching Chelsea getting stuffed - it was just unfortunate that the Chelsea team comprised several second stream players.
If the Chairman was serious about winning domestic as well as European competitions, he should be giving serious thought to his employment strategy.
I've just come to my computer to re-open this thread myself - you've beat me to it.
WHAT A FARCE - THE 2 MANAGERS THOUGHTS WERE OBVIOUSLY ON THE LARGER COMPETITIONS - COULDN'T RISK PLAYING A FULL TEAM OK, lets not take anything away from the Barnsley supporters - the scenes at the end of the match showed what this cup competition is all about. I feel really pleased for them.
Unfortunately, the best team is not going to win the competition this year. All of the big 4 have exited through sheer complacency. Yes it was fun watching Chelsea getting stuffed - it was just unfortunate that the Chelsea team comprised several second stream players.
If the Chairman was serious about winning domestic as well as European competitions, he should be giving serious thought to his employment strategy.
Championship Stoke City 3 - 0 Plymouth Argyle
Points 48; Position 20
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redzonerocker
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[quote="Big Boy"]Thai Tam,
I've just come to my computer to re-open this thread myself - you've beat me to it.
WHAT A FARCE - THE 2 MANAGERS THOUGHTS WERE OBVIOUSLY ON THE LARGER COMPETITIONS - COULDN'T RISK PLAYING A FULL TEAM
quote]
did you see the line ups??
man utd had giggs missing injured, thats all.
they missed to many chances & paid the price.
portsmouth are a decent side & they certainly rode their luck today!!!
chelsea had cech,lampard, drogba & cashley cole missing but cudicini,ballack, bridge & anelka are hardly second rate deputies!!
barnsley did what the underdog always does, gave 110% & grafted out a result.
the last 12 years have been dominated by arsenal, man utd , chelsea & liverpool, so this year its a welcome change in my opinion
I've just come to my computer to re-open this thread myself - you've beat me to it.
WHAT A FARCE - THE 2 MANAGERS THOUGHTS WERE OBVIOUSLY ON THE LARGER COMPETITIONS - COULDN'T RISK PLAYING A FULL TEAM quote]
did you see the line ups??
man utd had giggs missing injured, thats all.
they missed to many chances & paid the price.
portsmouth are a decent side & they certainly rode their luck today!!!
chelsea had cech,lampard, drogba & cashley cole missing but cudicini,ballack, bridge & anelka are hardly second rate deputies!!
barnsley did what the underdog always does, gave 110% & grafted out a result.
the last 12 years have been dominated by arsenal, man utd , chelsea & liverpool, so this year its a welcome change in my opinion
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
I do not think that the Cup has lost a lot of its charm, what is happening now at least for the teams that are in Europe, is that it is now a squad game and not just 18 players.
Most players in the squads are internationals and have to be of a quality to perform at the highest level, and have to have game time, so the League Cup and to an extent the FA Cup these players tend to get a lot more game time in those games that Europe or the EPL.
You cannot have squads of 26-30 players and only play the top 11 every game. One they would be burnt out halfway through the season, and secondly the rest would be fed up with being on the bench all the time.
It also gives the management a guide to what these type of fringe players can do if put under pressure. Do they panic, can they perform at the highest level, are they as good a player as what the club signed.
A couple of years ago, both Arsenal & Chelsea basically done that from the the 1st round of the league cup that they played in, and kept these teams right the way through the compatition even in the final.
Both these teams beat full strength teams along the way to the final and then put on what was a great final down at Cardif.
It shows the strengths of both of those squads that they were able to do that, and really looking at the league position now, is probably paying dividends.
I read a very relevant article yesterday that Sir Alex had wrote regarding the playing of the semi finals at Wembley now, and not on Neutral Grounds.
He stated, that this more than anything could take the romance out of trhe FA Cup as we know it. Now you do not have to wait till the final to get to play at Wembley. There are players from the past that have never go to play there. Now the glory of reaching the final is taken away as you only have to get to the semi to play at Wembley.
I heard an interview last night after Pompey had beaten Man Utd and some of his first words were Silvain Distan said was "I have waited all my life to play at Wembley", now my dream has been fufiled. Not that his dream to win an FA Cup at Wembley, but just to play there.
I think this kind of greed by the FA will go a long way to killing the spectical of the FA Cup not the playing of squad players in the rounds.
Most players in the squads are internationals and have to be of a quality to perform at the highest level, and have to have game time, so the League Cup and to an extent the FA Cup these players tend to get a lot more game time in those games that Europe or the EPL.
You cannot have squads of 26-30 players and only play the top 11 every game. One they would be burnt out halfway through the season, and secondly the rest would be fed up with being on the bench all the time.
It also gives the management a guide to what these type of fringe players can do if put under pressure. Do they panic, can they perform at the highest level, are they as good a player as what the club signed.
A couple of years ago, both Arsenal & Chelsea basically done that from the the 1st round of the league cup that they played in, and kept these teams right the way through the compatition even in the final.
Both these teams beat full strength teams along the way to the final and then put on what was a great final down at Cardif.
It shows the strengths of both of those squads that they were able to do that, and really looking at the league position now, is probably paying dividends.
I read a very relevant article yesterday that Sir Alex had wrote regarding the playing of the semi finals at Wembley now, and not on Neutral Grounds.
He stated, that this more than anything could take the romance out of trhe FA Cup as we know it. Now you do not have to wait till the final to get to play at Wembley. There are players from the past that have never go to play there. Now the glory of reaching the final is taken away as you only have to get to the semi to play at Wembley.
I heard an interview last night after Pompey had beaten Man Utd and some of his first words were Silvain Distan said was "I have waited all my life to play at Wembley", now my dream has been fufiled. Not that his dream to win an FA Cup at Wembley, but just to play there.
I think this kind of greed by the FA will go a long way to killing the spectical of the FA Cup not the playing of squad players in the rounds.
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Wanderlust
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and well said chelsea. I actually think the old semis at neutral grounds had a much better atmosphere as well, simply because not only was there the incentive of getting to the Cup Final but as you say, getting to play at Wembley. The semis were often better matches than the Final itself too. I think what has been forgotten is that we watch football not just to see the highest quality and skills, and more often get as much pleasure from a fully committed performance with blood and thunder tackles. The 'keep ball' play of teams like Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool is very well done and looks very pretty, but I personally enjoy more seeing a marauding run by Gerrard or Giggs, or a fantastic saving tackle by Carragher. I'm not a fan of any of these teams but I wish they would play more committed football sometimes. Of the 'Big Four' I think only Manchester United really play with passion, power and pace, with proper wing play (and I'm not a fan of theirs either but I would much rather watch them than any of the other 3).
Wanderlust, I really hate to admit this but so far this year, I think Arsenal have been playing by far the best football this year.
The best thing that they ever did was to get rid of Theirry Henry, before he left the younger players in the side looked scared to try things on their own, they always looked to pass the ball to him to try and score. Now they are scoring from everywhere.
Man Utd for me have not been so bad, but take Ronaldo out of that side and you take out the most effective weapon they have. If you look at the other sides in the top 3 they do not seem to have the depth that the others have at present.
Chelsea this year after all of the crap that happened at the begining of the season, have done much better than I could have imagined. For all of the crap that Avan Grant had to put up with to start with, I think really he has done a great job.
The christmas/new year could have been a minefield for them, serious injuries to John Terry & Carvallio to name only two, then all of the players missing for the African Cup and I think in that time, might have only lost one game.
We continued ok in the Champions League, and up till the last couple of weeks were still in with a chance of all 4 trophies.
What I said in my last post I think has been shown in the last 3 months at Chelsea, and that was in regard to how the squad systen works well. The players that have gained experience in the cup comps, were able to step into their positions and perform at the top level and still win games.
Without that valuable experience, this would have probably not happened and we would not have been in the position of where we are still now. It has been a real team effort.
These days, the players who think that they are the dogs bollolks and think that they should be in the team all the time, are not the players that a lot of the managers want now.
Look what happend to Joe Cole when Mourhinio 1st went to Chelsea. The Special One was having none of it as he was trying to build a team enviroment, not 11 individuals out there every Saturday. Lucky for Joe he took the advice on board and we can now see what a good player he is. A weaker manager might have let him go his own way and perhaps we would not have ever seen the best of him at Chelsea or for England.
The best thing that they ever did was to get rid of Theirry Henry, before he left the younger players in the side looked scared to try things on their own, they always looked to pass the ball to him to try and score. Now they are scoring from everywhere.
Man Utd for me have not been so bad, but take Ronaldo out of that side and you take out the most effective weapon they have. If you look at the other sides in the top 3 they do not seem to have the depth that the others have at present.
Chelsea this year after all of the crap that happened at the begining of the season, have done much better than I could have imagined. For all of the crap that Avan Grant had to put up with to start with, I think really he has done a great job.
The christmas/new year could have been a minefield for them, serious injuries to John Terry & Carvallio to name only two, then all of the players missing for the African Cup and I think in that time, might have only lost one game.
We continued ok in the Champions League, and up till the last couple of weeks were still in with a chance of all 4 trophies.
What I said in my last post I think has been shown in the last 3 months at Chelsea, and that was in regard to how the squad systen works well. The players that have gained experience in the cup comps, were able to step into their positions and perform at the top level and still win games.
Without that valuable experience, this would have probably not happened and we would not have been in the position of where we are still now. It has been a real team effort.
These days, the players who think that they are the dogs bollolks and think that they should be in the team all the time, are not the players that a lot of the managers want now.
Look what happend to Joe Cole when Mourhinio 1st went to Chelsea. The Special One was having none of it as he was trying to build a team enviroment, not 11 individuals out there every Saturday. Lucky for Joe he took the advice on board and we can now see what a good player he is. A weaker manager might have let him go his own way and perhaps we would not have ever seen the best of him at Chelsea or for England.
Always Borrow Money from a Pesimist. "They Never Expect it Back"
I completely agree that the semi-finals should be played on neutral grounds.To play the semis at Wembley makes a mockery of the competition.
There are enough big grounds in England to stage the semis.....Old Trafford,Emirates Stadium,St.James Park,Villa Park,possibly Anfield or Stamford Bridge.......dont know about the capacity or state of Hillsborough nowadays,but I'm sure its possible to find two decent sizes venues.
As regards the games last night,I didnt see the Chelsea game but was very surprised by the result when I woke this morning.But,well done Barnsley,beating Liverpool & Chelsea you deserve every success.
I watched the United game and the last 25 minutes was edge of the seat stuff ! United did play a full strength team and paid the penalty (literally) for missing a host of chances.
Portsmouths defence was heroic,particularily Campbell,Distin & James.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think Harry Redknapp has never won a major trophy ??
For 24 years he's been an excellent manager with Bournemouth,West Ham,Portsmouth and to a lesser extent,Southampton.
It would be fitting if he could lift the trophy and Portsmouth must be favourites now.
So Arsenal,United & Chelsea now have the Premiership & Champions League to fight for......Liverpool,the Champions League & a battle to qualify for next seasons competition.
One thing is for certain....at least two of them are going to end up with nothing this season.
It will be interesting to have two different teams in the final this season......what odds would you get for Barnsley v Bristol Rovers ? Maybe not much after todays match.
I'm a United fan and I think they and Arsenal are by far the most entertaining of the english teams but give credit where its due to the smaller teams for their performances in this years FA Cup.
Zidane
There are enough big grounds in England to stage the semis.....Old Trafford,Emirates Stadium,St.James Park,Villa Park,possibly Anfield or Stamford Bridge.......dont know about the capacity or state of Hillsborough nowadays,but I'm sure its possible to find two decent sizes venues.
As regards the games last night,I didnt see the Chelsea game but was very surprised by the result when I woke this morning.But,well done Barnsley,beating Liverpool & Chelsea you deserve every success.
I watched the United game and the last 25 minutes was edge of the seat stuff ! United did play a full strength team and paid the penalty (literally) for missing a host of chances.
Portsmouths defence was heroic,particularily Campbell,Distin & James.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think Harry Redknapp has never won a major trophy ??
For 24 years he's been an excellent manager with Bournemouth,West Ham,Portsmouth and to a lesser extent,Southampton.
It would be fitting if he could lift the trophy and Portsmouth must be favourites now.
So Arsenal,United & Chelsea now have the Premiership & Champions League to fight for......Liverpool,the Champions League & a battle to qualify for next seasons competition.
One thing is for certain....at least two of them are going to end up with nothing this season.
It will be interesting to have two different teams in the final this season......what odds would you get for Barnsley v Bristol Rovers ? Maybe not much after todays match.
I'm a United fan and I think they and Arsenal are by far the most entertaining of the english teams but give credit where its due to the smaller teams for their performances in this years FA Cup.
Zidane
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JimmyGreaves
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F.A. Cup back to it's best. Great excitement. Just show's how team spirit can overcome the dollar on occasions. Most moan about the F.A Cup when there out of it, if there still in the competition their comments are usually different!
Answer to the OP 'No domestic football has not had it's day, it's as exciting as ever' What I would say is players all over the world are not as loyal as they used to be.
This says it:
I have to say this is the best FA Cup for decades. I am a Liverpool fan but that doesn't stop me from saluting the lower division teams that have thoroughly deserved to reach the hallowed Wembley turf this year. In these money driven days of football we need times like this when the magic of the Cup reminds everyone what the game is really about - passion and commitment. I realise that the semi final team will relish some extra cash, but they have fought with blood and sweat to get there. All "big four" fans and the rest should stop moaning and enjoy the Cup for what it is, the best leveller of team in the world.
Answer to the OP 'No domestic football has not had it's day, it's as exciting as ever' What I would say is players all over the world are not as loyal as they used to be.
This says it:
I have to say this is the best FA Cup for decades. I am a Liverpool fan but that doesn't stop me from saluting the lower division teams that have thoroughly deserved to reach the hallowed Wembley turf this year. In these money driven days of football we need times like this when the magic of the Cup reminds everyone what the game is really about - passion and commitment. I realise that the semi final team will relish some extra cash, but they have fought with blood and sweat to get there. All "big four" fans and the rest should stop moaning and enjoy the Cup for what it is, the best leveller of team in the world.
Great post by Chelsea about Chelsea!
My only concern with Grant is that in the cup final and yesterday - he's messed up. And a few weeks ago he was talking of the importance of winning these tournaments.
The Carling cup team had the players but the balance was all wrong, which was evident from the start and yesterday, as others have said, he just didn't show enough respect, IMHO, to Barnsley. When push comes to shove, each manager will have their best 11 and ours has Lamps and Drogba.
But all credit to Barnsley for a great performance and win.
Also like to echo the view that for me, Arsenal are the most attractive team to watch (but Ronaldo the top individual). Their performance against Milan was sensational.
So who's gonna win it? My money is on Pompey - they'll out muscle everyone else.
My only concern with Grant is that in the cup final and yesterday - he's messed up. And a few weeks ago he was talking of the importance of winning these tournaments.
The Carling cup team had the players but the balance was all wrong, which was evident from the start and yesterday, as others have said, he just didn't show enough respect, IMHO, to Barnsley. When push comes to shove, each manager will have their best 11 and ours has Lamps and Drogba.
But all credit to Barnsley for a great performance and win.
Also like to echo the view that for me, Arsenal are the most attractive team to watch (but Ronaldo the top individual). Their performance against Milan was sensational.
So who's gonna win it? My money is on Pompey - they'll out muscle everyone else.