Did you know ?

[Guess]

................................When the Japanese invaded in WW2, the Thais refused the British passage through Thailand to meet them because they thought the Japanese were going to win, might be why Malaysia and Singapore fell.

I didn't know that bit, but after the Japs invaded Thailand in Prachuap, Chumporn and Nakorn Si Thamarat, on the same day that they attacked Pearl Harbor, they quickly started diplomatic talks with Thailand. The offer was join us or suffer the consequences. As Japan had just attacked the US and were on the way to take on the might of the British army in Burma the Thais felt that it was pointless to resist. (Sensible decision). For the next three years after that, all Thai official decisions were made by the Japanese.

This could be an entire new thread entitled "Was Thailand really never colonized?" I think in a nut shell they were by the Japanese, and they escaped other events in their history by giving territory away before it happened. Pete

It is generally accepted that there are two exceptions to colonizatioin/occupation/dominance in Thai history. I have the following in a Thai history book:

Thailand has never been controlled by a foreign power except in the years 1767 -1776 by the Burmese when it was the Kingdom of Ayutthya and December 1941 - April 1945 when it was occupied by the Japanese.

Neither claimed to have had colonisation on their agenda so the statement "Thailand has never been colonized" is still true.

There were other times when the Khmer empire occupied parts of modern day Thailand and the borders are still not defined properly which has what has led to this recent problem with the temple. Other brief incursions took place prior to the unification of Thailand by Lao, Shan, Vietnamese and Chinese kingdoms. As these invaders were mostly Thai speaking they are not generally seen as foreigners even thought they came from areas that have never been part of Thailand.

The exchange of Land for peace is a subject that varies depending upon who has written the history book.

A footnote to WW2. As the Thais had declared war on the allies of the US, France and the UK they were listed officially as a defeated Axis nation. The UK and France demanded reparations from Thailand. The US stated that as the Thais were forced to declare war by the Japanese that reparations would not be claimed. This decision by the US opened doors with Thailand that remain open today. The US became the new primary ally of Thailand
and were allowed a large presence her in the Vietnam war.

[Spitfire]

To reply to your question about insight Mags, the best I can do off the top of my head, without delving too deeply in the books, is tell you what my wife's Grandpa said about it when I asked him, with a lot of help from the wife.

Told me that the Japanese were mainly in the large cities or strategic points, not in the villages, think they left them alone. The grandfather says that if you didn't go anywhere like that then you didn't really notice.

Sure that would be different near the borders, but they were certainly in places like Udon, Ubon, Khon Kaen etc.

Maybe others know something about this aswell but I'm pretty sure this one's not in the Thai history/social curriculum.

Good post above Guess, pretty spot-on.

[PeteC]

To reply to your question about insight Mags, the best I can do off the top of my head, without delving too deeply in the books, is tell you what my wife's Grandpa said about it when I asked him, with a lot of help from the wife.

Told me that the Japanese were mainly in the large cities or strategic points, not in the villages, think they left them alone. The grandfather says that if you didn't go anywhere like that then you didn't really notice.

Sure that would be different near the borders, but they were certainly in places like Udon, Ubon, Khon Kaen etc.

Maybe others know something about this aswell but I'm pretty sure this one's not in the Thai history/social curriculum.

Good post above Guess, pretty spot-on.

They built Takhli Air Base in the town of Takhli, which is a bit east of Chinat and a bit south east from Nakonsawan. All we did was come in and upgrade the runway to handle jets, built a few buildings and that was it. It had basically sat dormant since WWII with a few improvements made by the Thai Air Force. I slept in one of the Japanese made hootches when I first got there in '70 and there were Japanese character pen knife carvings on the wood pillars. The Thai's were convinced the whole place was loaded with ghosts. Pete

[KelpieKiss]

This post has been edited by moderator.

Kelpiekiss, There is a separate forum for this kind of discussion and language, please keep it in there.

[STEVE G]

On the subject of the Japanese invasion, a small battle was fought at the airbase at Prachuap Kirikhan on the 8th and 9th of December 1941.
After Japanese troops landed by sea a group of Thai air force personnel put up resistance and tried unsuccessfully to launch air attacks on the invaders.
After fighting through the night they eventually received news that an armistice had been declared and stopped resisting.
116 Japanese died in the action and 38 Thai serviceman and civilians lost their lives.

[Spitfire]

Very good Steve G, didn't know the details, just that the Thais only resisted for a day or two.

While we are on this subject, did anyone see or read the stories a year or two ago, about a couple of Japanese soldiers from WW2 that wandered down from the mountains on a phillipine island and surrendered?

They were about 75-80 years old and told the local police that there last orders were to 'defend the mountain'.

That's funny, 63 years late, I can just imagine them thinking 'OK, that's enough, maybe we should let it go'.

Edited for spelling

[PeteC]

On the subject of the Japanese invasion, a small battle was fought at the airbase at Prachuap Kirikhan on the 8th and 9th of December 1941.
After Japanese troops landed by sea a group of Thai air force personnel put up resistance and tried unsuccessfully to launch air attacks on the invaders.
After fighting through the night they eventually received news that an armistice had been declared and stopped resisting.
116 Japanese died in the action and 38 Thai serviceman and civilians lost their lives.

I forget the details but there is quite a famous Thai movie about the fight against the Japanese. I think the theme was around a battle or battles in Bangkok Noi, a train station there etc. The movie was released about 8-10 years ago. Pete

[Guess]

.................................Sure that would be different near the borders, but they were certainly in places like Udon, Ubon, Khon Kaen etc.

That covers a fair swathe of land in Isan. I have just read a book of short letters which were sent by Japanese soldiers on active service in the Burma campaign.

The Japanese "invasion" of Thailand was to enable a foothold by land in South Asia on their way to the capture of India.

The Andaman sea was considered far too dangerous because of the British naval presence there.

This is why Nakhorn Si Thamarat, Chumporn and Prachuap were selected. The Japanese already has access to aerial photos and selected places where they could quickly and easily get to Victoria Point. Once that was captured they could advance northwards and free up less hazardous crossings while still using Chumporn and Prachuap as bridgeheads.

On the same day that the Japanese invaded Thailand they also invaded Malaya. By February 1942 they had conquered the whole of the peninsular and did not need the bridgeheads any more as Singapore Harbor was now available to them.

As the war in Burma moved northwards the Japanese in Thailand followed. When British air superiority got the better of Japanese ground troops the Japanese replied with attacks on the RAF in the air and against the retreating British troops on the ground. The raids were carried out from Chiang Mai.

So the Japanese had by then a presence over the whole length of Thailand.

I don't know what they would have been doing in Isan but it may have been chosen for R & R at a safe distance from allied aircraft. History books do not cover it well but there are plenty of stories from elderly village folk that confirm Japanese presence in Isan.

The Japanese military headquarters for the campaign were in Bangkok which earned Bangkok the taste of Allied bombing raids on at least one occasion.

The other significant and most infamous presence was along the course of the Burma railway. The rails were taken up between south of Kuala Lumpur and Had Yai Junction. They were then transported to Ban Pong for use on the railway construction. The Burma railway passed through Kanchanaburi and the Three Pagodas Pass to Tavoy where it linked up with the Burmese State Railway system.

The Soldiers in charge of the construction were mostly made up from Japanese who were unsuitable for combat and Korean conscripts.

There is an excellent 2001 film "To End All Wars" with Robert Carlyle that gives a great insight into the sort of lifestyle and characters that survived for over 4 years in these camps.

The majority of camps were in Thailand and many captives who survived only did so with the help of the free Thailand movement, Sri Thai, who risked their own lives to get food and medicines to the prisoners.

[kendo]

This is turning into a really good thread, thankyou all, and keep on posting, it's great to learn something new everyday, Thailand is just amazing, i think we are all lucky to have the LOS in our hearts,

[huahinsimon]

Did you know that
About 13,000 PoWs from Britain, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands and the US and perhaps as many as 100,000 Asian labourers died building the 415km railway under horrific and often brutal conditions in 1943 and 1944.

I don't know why the Thais dont make a big fuss over their people who were impressed into labor gangs by the Nips and died at a rate of about 10 times that of the Allied POW's.

anybody know?

[miked]

Guess wrote
The offer was join us or suffer the consequences. As Japan had just attacked the US and were on the way to take on the might of the British army in Burma the Thais felt that it was pointless to resist. (Sensible decision). For the next three years after that, all Thai official decisions were made by the Japanese.

good job the U.K. Australia, New Zealand, U.S., Canada etc didn't make the sensible decision
miked

[dtaai-maai]

Guess wrote
The offer was join us or suffer the consequences. As Japan had just attacked the US and were on the way to take on the might of the British army in Burma the Thais felt that it was pointless to resist. (Sensible decision). For the next three years after that, all Thai official decisions were made by the Japanese.

good job the U.K. Australia, New Zealand, U.S., Canada etc didn't make the sensible decision
miked

miked, I understand your point, but I can't see the comparison.

[STEVE G]

Guess wrote:

I don't know what they would have been doing in Isan but it may have been chosen for R & R at a safe distance from allied aircraft. History books do not cover it well but there are plenty of stories from elderly village folk that confirm Japanese presence in Isan.

I also wonder what they would be doing in Isan, perhaps looking for rice to feed their army or something along those lines.
My partner has an elderly relative who might know and I will try to find out next time I go up there.

[PeteC]

Guess wrote:

I don't know what they would have been doing in Isan but it may have been chosen for R & R at a safe distance from allied aircraft. History books do not cover it well but there are plenty of stories from elderly village folk that confirm Japanese presence in Isan.

I also wonder what they would be doing in Isan, perhaps looking for rice to feed their army or something along those lines.
My partner has an elderly relative who might know and I will try to find out next time I go up there.

I don't know what type of government Laos had at the time, or if they had resistance organizations. I do know that Ho Chi Minh was the leader of the Vietnamese resistance against the Japanese and Issan is a hop-skip-jump to Vietnam. Perhaps the Japanese tactics were to flank him. Pete

[dtaai-maai]

I'm enjoying this thread immensely. My understanding was - and I can't remember whether I read it, saw it on TV, or heard it in conversation - that Thailand declared war and were advised to hang on in there "You hold on to that declaration, and we'll pretend we never saw it".

I had a (very) quick look on Google, and the first response was:

August 16 Thailand declaration of war against United States and Great Britain ruled null and void.

As this was only 2 weeks before the Japanese signed the surrender documents (and after both nuclear bombs had been dropped), this seems at the same time a strange decision by the Thais and a feasible response by the Allies. Does anyone know more about this aspect?