Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Local Hua Hin and regional Thailand news articles and discussion.
Locked
User avatar
PeteC
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 29924
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:58 am
Location: All Blacks training camp

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by PeteC »

Nereus wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:51 am With the right equipment 1,000 metres is not a challenge.
It's an ancient volcano Nereus, that can be seen from the photo map I posted this morning. Granite is a hardness 6-7 and basalt is a 6 so drilling may be long and difficult perhaps. In any event, I haven't seen any kind of 3D depth map showing the tunnels vertical distance from the surface. Pete :cheers:
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
JWWhite
Professional
Professional
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:38 pm

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by JWWhite »

Interesting analysis: Myth and politics in Thailand’s cave rescue operation

http://www.newmandala.org/myth-politics ... operation/

Good link and interesting link, JJWhite, I opened another thread so we can discuss this from cultural point of view. Bamboo Grove

https://huahinforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36597
MY in BS full of BS.
“When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.” Stephen Jay Gould
User avatar
Nereus
Hero
Hero
Posts: 10869
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Nereus »

Hmm, most caves are formed from Limestone. That's how they come to be caves. But you are correct about the geological 3D depth.
Modern diamond tipped drills, along with high pressure air, have no problem with granite or basalt. The problem here will be as it has been all along, and that is arriving at the best and safest way of getting them out. :cheers:
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
User avatar
Dannie Boy
Hero
Hero
Posts: 12031
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:12 pm
Location: Closer to Cha Am than Hua Hin

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Dannie Boy »

I’m sure they won’t have problems in getting air supplies into the area where the boys are, but teaching 13 of them how to use Scuba Equipment won’t be easy - some will probably take to it reasonably well so the first few could be out within a week or two, but for others it will undoubtedly take longer and it’s possible that some of them may be too frightened to give it a try. Although my license has long expired, I was once a fully trained open water diver, but having to navigate narrow passageways and almost “blind”, is not something I’d relish. Let’s hope they can find or create an opening to get them out, otherwise it could take the 4 months they are predicting until the water levels drop
RCer
Ace
Ace
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:48 pm

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by RCer »

Training shouldn't be a problem. They're teenage boys. Always up for an adventure. Problem will be now that threy've had a taste of it, under the worst conditions, how to satisfy their desire for more.

I agree on the black water diving. Done more than I care to ever again.

Fortunately, cave divers install a guide line or 2 as they go in, so getting out will not be a problem.
User avatar
Nereus
Hero
Hero
Posts: 10869
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Nereus »

Cave evacuation 'must happen before water rises'

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... recent_box

With more rain forecast, rescuers are racing against time to bring 12 boys who cannot swim and their coach out of flooded Tham Luang cave before the water rises again.

Interior Minister Anupong Paojinda said in Bangkok on Tuesday that the 13 footballers would be brought out of the cave in Chiang Rai's Mae Sai district through the passage to its main entrance. Rescuers would try to minimise the necessity for them to dive by pumping as much water as possible out of the cave first.

They would have to dive at some sections, especially through a narrow section where close escort was not possible. They would have to use diving gear by themselves and pass through one after another, Gen Anupong said.

"Diving is not easy. Those who have never done it will find it difficult, because there are narrow passages in the cave. They must be able to use diving gear. If the gear is lost at any moment, it can be dangerous to life," he said.

Except for narrow holes, two divers would escort each of them. Rescuers were believed to have a good plan for the evacuation, Gen Anupong said.

"As rain is forecast in the next few days, the evacuation must speed up. Diving gear will be used. If the water rises, the task will be difficult. We must bring the kids out before then," he said.

Chiang Rai Prachanukroh Hospital in Muang district, Chiang Rai, has arranged a ward where all 13 could be cared for, and accommodation for 54 relatives, Dr Thongchai Lertwilairatanapong, public health inspector-general, said.

All of the team were in good condition but in need of proper nutrients. Their eyes had been in the dark for along time and needed to adjust to normal light. They would need the protection of sunglasses, he said.

The boys must regain their strength first. None of them know how to swim, he said.

Hundreds of rescuers and volunteers helped in the search operation which finally found the young footballers in a dry area deep within winding Tham Luang cave in the Tham Luang Khun Nam Nang Non forest park in Mae Sai district, Chiang Rai, on Monday night.

Divers said the boys were in a small space around 2 kilometres into the flooded cave and between 800m and 1km below the surface, making any rescue very difficult.

They had been trapped by rising flood water caused by continuous rain the area since entering the cave system after football practice on Saturday, June 23.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
User avatar
PeteC
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 29924
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:58 am
Location: All Blacks training camp

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by PeteC »

"Divers said the boys were in a small space around 2 kilometres into the flooded cave and between 800m and 1km below the surface, making any rescue very difficult."

That answers our chamber/tunnel depth question.

I was wondering about a compressor fed air hose similar to that used by deep sea divers. If they could extend one of those in there and hook it up to a mouthpiece/mask it seems it would be much better than having them wear heavy and bulky tanks. Pete :cheers:
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
User avatar
Nereus
Hero
Hero
Posts: 10869
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Nereus »

I was wondering about a compressor fed air hose similar to that used by deep sea divers. If they could extend one of those in there and hook it up to a mouthpiece/mask it seems it would be much better than having them wear heavy and bulky tanks. Pete
Far too many nooks, crannies, bends and other obstacles to do that I believe. Big risk of the hose getting snagged up on something.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
User avatar
Nereus
Hero
Hero
Posts: 10869
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Nereus »

Some relevant information at the following. Didn't realise that there are so many caves in Thailand.

https://www.thailandcaves.shepton.org.uk/blog
Page created 30/06/2018 - 11:32, updated 30/06/2018 - 11:32
It must be stressed that the Tham Luang survey is very inaccurate and cannot be used, on its own, to select drilling targets.
On the landscape scale it looks OK – Monk's Series heads towards Pha Mi, main cave follows the spine of the mountain, avens and low wet section as the southern end of the cave passes under the gorge – but the error radius for a station at the end of the cave could be hundreds of metres.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
RCer
Ace
Ace
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:48 pm

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by RCer »

PeteC wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:06 pm better than having them wear heavy and bulky tanks. Pete :cheers:
If it were me doing the rescue, I'd tie a rope between me and the kid. I'd give him my 7ft (that's the long hose cave divers have wrapped around their neck) with mouthpiece, wetsuit, weight belt, and that's all.

I would handle tank management myself.

As for a previous comment about not knowing how to swim. In SCUBA swimming is only used on the surface. So its a non-issue. Good question though.
User avatar
Nereus
Hero
Hero
Posts: 10869
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Nereus »

The point is with not knowing how to swim; the natural reactive aversion of being not only IN the water, but under it.

These kids obviously have some grit to come as far as they have, but from my experience with HUET training even full grown adults will panic. And that is in a controlled environment in clear water. Black out the goggles used in some training exercises and be prepared to immediately rescue the subject, no matter how prepared they are.

From all reports they just do not have the time to prepare the kids for a SAFE evacuation.
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
RCer
Ace
Ace
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:48 pm

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by RCer »

Nereus wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:07 pm The point is with not knowing how to swim; the natural reactive aversion of being not only IN the water, but under it.

These kids obviously have some grit to come as far as they have, but from my experience with HUET training even full grown adults will panic. And that is in a controlled environment in clear water. Black out the goggles used in some training exercises and be prepared to immediately rescue the subject, no matter how prepared they are.

From all reports they just do not have the time to prepare the kids for a SAFE evacuation.
You're talking about adults with a learned fear.

These are kids. I could have them blowing bubbles and loving it in 10 minutes.
HHTel
Hero
Hero
Posts: 10807
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:44 pm

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by HHTel »

The government has said that the kids will be brought out of the cave in the next day or so. It's all over Thai tv. This from the Interior Minister who of course is an expert (not)
Thailand’s interior minister, Anupong Paojinda, suggested the rescue attempt will be made over the next day or so, before a fresh downpour of monsoon rain is expected.
All the experts have said that that is the most dangerous option.
User avatar
Nereus
Hero
Hero
Posts: 10869
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hua Hin and Bangkok

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Nereus »

Well, I don't think that you have to be any type of Doctor to read the concern on the face of these guys. And they are the ones that have been in there.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/genera ... recent_box
UK divers.jpg
UK divers.jpg (38.22 KiB) Viewed 128 times
Richard Stanton (left) John Volanthen (centre), the UK divers who found the boys and their coach, talk to US Special Operations Command Pacific Search and Rescue team personnel in Mae Sai on Tuesday. (AP photo)
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
User avatar
Ginjaninja
Ace
Ace
Posts: 1634
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:51 am
Location: Never lovin land

Re: Thai officials believe 12 boys missing in cave are alive

Post by Ginjaninja »

The cynic in me thought there may be a LOF issue asking for external help. Big big respect for the mayor sorting out the help required. One of the true heroes involved...
Locked