Child abduction

[sargeant]

Herv me old china i am struggling to understand what you are getting at

So let me get this straight IF it isnt in a newspaper or on TV it did not happen

The policeman on my soi is talking b%$%#$%s

The mib who went to every school in Hua Hin to give out this information within hours of it happening were just out there scaring the living crap out of the parents and the kids for the hell of it

Answer if your kid is kidnapped dont let the media know they wont report it or broadcast it and then it will never have happened

everybody happy you bet your life we arent

[sargeant]

sorry herv that was to Zdandan

[2dandan]

Sarge, Jockey and Dawn,

I'm not naive enough to believe that everything gets reported and I'm not saying that if it doesn't get reported, then it didn't happen.

I'm saying that child abduction on the scale mentioned would be reported, somewhere, whether the Thai authorities wanted to suppress it or not.

I've searched the UNICEF website and child abduction, by strangers, is mentioned in connection with many countries. Thailand is not amongst them.

I've carried out a Google and Yahoo search in an effort to obtain any info on child abductions and the only thing that appears relevant is abductions of children by estranged spouses. This is not a crime in Thailand.

This may explain the lack of "headlines" in newspapers etc on some occasions.

The parental abduction theory, however, does not fit in with the request for info/I have heard question posed by the OP.

Which takes me back to the Urban myth suggestion.

Dawn - this one is specifically for you..... How can you prove that something didn't happen ?????

As an aside, Donald Rumsfeld, the ex American Defense Secretary said.....

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things we know we don't know. But, there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we don't know we don't know.

The above quotation may be relevant to this discussion.

I still think that my hat will remain uneaten for some time, as no proof has yet been offered.

Sarge - How come the Police are 100% reliable when trying to back up an argument, when they are unreliable, lazy, useless and corrupt on every other post on this forum.

[Jockey]

2dandan - Your quote:
To suggest that the English language newspapers don't report this, so as to not cause alarm beggars belief.

I can tell you they didn't report it - not because they didn't want to cause alarm - they didn't report it because they were told not to report it.

BTW - you using a Donald Rumsfeld quote does not surprise me. You seem to be one of these people that actually believed the USA had valid reasons for invading Iraq because the TV and papers said it was best thing to do! Also, the quote you actually chose was irrelevant and is ridiculed worldwide as one of the most stupid comments of the 21st century.

But petty point scoring over who's right and who's wrong on a subject as serious as this is not cool. Here are the facts as I know it:

1. There was a report of a Child abduction on ITV news (no retraction of story or follow up).

2. I've been told the story was in a Thai local paper by 4 different people I respect, but I amit I've not read it or seen it as the edition was gone.

3. I heard and saw a truck going around Cha Am warning people that a Child was abducted the day before. It was in Thai but I asked what the message was.

4. I have spoken to an English teacher who was at a school where a child was abducted. His account stated there was huge pandemonium followed by an instruction not to talk about it.

5. 2 posters on this thread heard the police announce at a school assembly the kidnappers were caught.

6. I know English newspapers have been instructed they can not report this - not even to disprove or investigate the story.

7. Nearly every Thai I ask in Cha Am knows about this.

After all that information, you seem to want to critisise the OP for merely asking a question if anyone knew any more about this. Are you suggesting all the Thais in Cha Am are duped by an urban myth, the 2 posters talking about the police message were liars, the frantic appeal for help on the loudspeakers was silly panic, the English teacher is a liar, the TV report was a mistake and the picture in the papers with a photo of a missing boy has been put there for no reason?

Next you'll be trying to tell us we're living in a democratic country?

[2dandan]

Jockey,

Thanks for a very full reply. However it contradicts itself.

You said.

I can tell you they didn't report it - not because they didn't want to cause alarm - they didn't report it because they were told not to report it.

You followed this up with.

1. There was a report of a Child abduction on ITV news (no retraction of story or follow up).

2. I've been told the story was in a Thai local paper by 4 different people I respect, but I amit I've not read it or seen it as the edition was gone.

6. I know English newspapers have been instructed they can not report this - not even to disprove or investigate the story.

So, they didn't report it because they were told not to... or they did report it. Doh!

7. Nearly every Thai I ask in Cha Am knows about this.

They would do whether it was true or not. Have you found one who knows the victim or his/her parents

But petty point scoring over who's right and who's wrong on a subject as serious as this is not cool.

I agree

The purpose of my posts on this thread were to suggest that things should not always be taken at face value.

If you say that this was reported in the newspaper and on the news, then I can't prove or disprove that.

I just can't abide rumours disguised as facts. They are corrosive and dangerous.

I still doubt whether this mass abduction took place, because things just don't add up and International authorities (UNICEF) don't appear to identify the problem.

We could go round and round with this.

I can't disprove it and everybody else can't prove it so we should probably agree to differ and maintain a good watching brief.

As far as the Rumsfeld quote is concerned, it was submitted in an effort to lighten my post and as far as the war in Iraq is concerned .............

[Guess]

We could go round and round with this.

As far as the Rumsfeld quote is concerned, it was submitted in an effort to lighten my post and as far as the war in Iraq is concerned .............

Yes exactly, and the reply to the Rumsfeld comment does little to the dialog.

Regarding the press. There are many reason why things are not reported or reported but not followed up.

1. The press have been instructed by superior powers as to how to handle the topic.

2. If arrests have been made the subject may be unreported for legal reasons.

3. The fact that cases happen on a regular basis in the country may be enough for the editors to drop the story.

4. Circumstances surrounding the case may not be what they first seemed and a family feud or similar may have been the motive.


The broadcasting and instructions to schools would be a natural action. We have recently had instructions by Prachuap Police to be extra diligent about things being dumbed in the street or in the garbage skips by people unknown to us. They may have had some inside information that was relevant to Hua Hin but more likely it was just a routine exercise designed to have maximum impact but without scaring the public.

I truly believe that an incident took place and a picture of a missing child has been published.

To complete my input to the debate:

Keep a close look out with your children and do everything in your power to avoid them getting into situations that leave them at risk. If you have a camera or camera on your phone take pictures of anything you see that is suspicious involving any child.

This philosophy applies in every country in the world. Fortunately if WHO stats, are true then Thailand is one of the safer countries in the world.

[sargeant]

Well put/said guess

Zdandan please read my posts all of them i have NEVER criticized the MIB in fact i defend them on virtually every occasion i can so dont brush me off by lumping me in with everybody else that does

Mrs Sarge says it WAS in the thai newspaper we get everyday and it WAS on the TV local station i will take her word for it rather than google

[Jockey]

I believe at least one boy was abducted in the Cha Am area. There may have been more. As to the OP's question of 12 kids being abducted at the same time and then another 4, I would have to agree that particular story may be panic and rumour caused by the inability to report it properly. There is no clarity in these stories and I perfectly understand why someone might think it was an urban myth. Here is my theory:

More than 1 child has been abducted. For reasons unknown to us, reporting has been restricted. The lack of clear reporting has caused rumours which have exaggerated the facts.

I've been informed the kidnappers used a mini van similar to the type used for the mini bus to Bangkok.

[Jockey]

Zdandan - as I said - it was reported on ITV and I was told in a Thai newspaper then later followed by a reporting blackout. I think that is clear so why try to desperately look for flaws in the story? Of course there will be flaws in the story - because of a reporting blackout!!!!

Your other point regarding naming the boy - a picture in a newspaper - a name - a message Have You Seen This Boy There is also a missing boy message in this months Hua Hin Mirror (which I can not claim for certain is related to this story).

The English teacher I spoke to knows the boy who was abducted.

Just how much evidence do you need before you think there might be a grain of substance to this story?

[sargeant]

Jockey i am baffled as to zdandans logic or motive for his posts on this subject
If i agreed with him (which i certainly do not) and it never happened!!! on its own its a masterpiece in child safety parents are taking more care and every kid is now aware of the dangers a reason to applaud IMHO

As for the reason for a press clampdown one reason that Thailand and other countries dont want the foreign press to get hold of certain storys is that it would be slanted and sensationilsed out of all context
On this website quite correctly certain subjects are of limits (read the rules) and then stop and have a ponder

[Big Boy]

Guess wrote:

If you have a camera or camera on your phone take pictures of anything you see that is suspicious involving any child.

Although this is very sound advice, please be sure of your facts before snapping other people's kids - certainly such action here in the UK could put you in the frame as the perpetrator. Although you could be doing it with the best of intentions, some people react very strangely.

I posted something the other day on Best of British about the death of Common Sense - many a true word spoken in jest.

[BEARHUG]

Jockey,

Thanks for a very full reply. However it contradicts itself.

You said.

I can tell you they didn't report it - not because they didn't want to cause alarm - they didn't report it because they were told not to report it.

You followed this up with.

1. There was a report of a Child abduction on ITV news (no retraction of story or follow up).

2. I've been told the story was in a Thai local paper by 4 different people I respect, but I amit I've not read it or seen it as the edition was gone.

6. I know English newspapers have been instructed they can not report this - not even to disprove or investigate the story.

So, they didn't report it because they were told not to... or they did report it. Doh!

7. Nearly every Thai I ask in Cha Am knows about this.

They would do whether it was true or not. Have you found one who knows the victim or his/her parents

But petty point scoring over who's right and who's wrong on a subject as serious as this is not cool.

I agree

The purpose of my posts on this thread were to suggest that things should not always be taken at face value.

If you say that this was reported in the newspaper and on the news, then I can't prove or disprove that.

I just can't abide rumours disguised as facts. They are corrosive and dangerous.

I still doubt whether this mass abduction took place, because things just don't add up and International authorities (UNICEF) don't appear to identify the problem.

We could go round and round with this.

I can't disprove it and everybody else can't prove it so we should probably agree to differ and maintain a good watching brief.

As far as the Rumsfeld quote is concerned, it was submitted in an effort to lighten my post and as far as the war in Iraq is concerned .............

2dandan

You have obviously researched this, hopefully it will have a happy ending?

Loads spoken about the lack of reporting oversea's, although this is terrible, a child abduction in Cha Am is not rally headline new's, sad but thats it.

Unfortunately its a case of rumours being mixed in with fact, the suggestion of taking picture's at anything suspicous underline's the misguided concept of police work. You would have people sending picture's by Post and Emails by the hour.

The few times I have had dealing's with the Police I have been quite satisfied.

I will let Jockey and 2dandan resume their sparring.

[2dandan]

I think that several of my points have been accepted and in particular, no mass kidnap of children took place.

If that is the outcome of this debate, then I'm happy because a) the crime was not committed and b) the rumours and comments that it did, have been accepted as being untrue/exaggerated.

I accept that an incident has unfortunately taken place in Cha am. I sincerely hope that it has been resolved and the child victim has been returned safe and well, although the comments do not support this (missing child photo)

The debate has achieved it's objective. The rumours have been discussed and evidence has now been offered.

It highlighted the issue, that these outrageous allegations need to be challenged and not merely accepted as facts. There's a big difference between 16 children being abducted and 1 child being abducted.

Sarge - I don't have a motive except to try and prevent rumours being accepted as fact, without any evidence. End of story. I mentioned the Police and although addressed to you, it was not a criticism of you personally, but merely used for comparison and debate purposes.

Newspapers and publicising incidents - I understand the situation regarding reporting restrictions being placed on local individual events and the absolute requirement for a news blackout on live kidnap enquiries, however to suggest the Thai Government/UN agencies/Human Rights groups/worldwide newspapers and others would all conspire not to report mass child abductions (as alleged) or make comment on them still beggars belief.

It is my submission that these incidents do not occur in Thailand, except for rare isolated events, which I believe would be reported in International media whether the Thai Government wished it or not.

[DawnHRD]

Sorry, 2dandan, not sure where you got the idea that you'd convinced everyone. I can only speak for myself, but your arguments haven't convinced me. I still don't know what has or hasn't happened. In fact my opinion of this story hasn't changed one iota since you started your posts about it. I don't see how you can be so certain that nothing happened.

[sargeant]

Totally agree dawn and he only talks about cha am doesnt even mention the kids in hua hin as i have said god knows what his agenda is i cant fathom it
And it did happen and it WAS in the news and it WAS on TV so he hasnt convinced 2 of us