England Football Geography

[Jaime]

As Guess and Steve G have posted, 'Great Britain' means the island of mainland Britain. Use of the term to describe the political state is inaccurate. Great Britain is also a purely geographical term, having nothing to do with military or political greatness. Bretagne (Brittany) is a part of northern France and Grande Bretagne referes to its larger cousin across the English Channel. The term is a relic of a time after the massed Celtic migrations from Britain, especially South Wales and the West Country, to Brittany (Bretagne) by evangelising Celtic monks and their followers during the so called Dark Ages. This period immediately after the fall of the Roman Empire in the island of Brittania is also known as 'The Age of Saints.' This distinction between 'Little Britain' (!) and 'Great Britain' has stuck over the course of time and its origins have been forgotten or deliberately corrupted for jingoistic purposes. Nothing changes, eh?

[Guess]

As Jaime has clarified Great Britain is as I wrote "For the pedants among you, Great Britain is the largest of the islands in the group of Islands situated just of the coast of the cheating French mainland of Europe."

You learn something everyday. I always thought that Brittany (Bretagne) was named thus because of its proximity to the British Isles.

As for the UK islands bit I did state the mainland Island only so Steve is correct although I had 6 degrees 14 minutes west. If we discussed all the Islands then it is possible that West Falkland could be included.

West Falkland being the location of a battle ground where many decent people died in many of the NATO vs rest of the world clashes over oil rights.

Anyway I am running out of Geographical trivia so who else has got some.

[PeteC]

Anyway I am running out of Geographical trivia so who else has got some.

I don't have the answers and will take some research.

In what century/time frame was the Kingdom of Siam the smallest in it's history, geographically. And the largest, encompassing what other existing countries as we know them today. Pete

[Guess]

Good one for me Pete. I have a fairly good knowledge of Thai History. However most needs checking. So not today.

All I can say for sure at the moment is Thailand was not united until after the purge of the Burmese by Nuerasuan and Rama 1 in the late 18th (latin) centuries. Various chunks have been passed about as the result of shifting of colonial powers, world wars and clever manilpulation by the Rama dynasty, mainly IV and V.

I shall report back.

[PeteC]

Don't forget that little strip of Burma that runs south, west of you guys. I think that was ceded to Burma much later than when other pieces of The Kingdom were cut and pasted? In the past I think Burma stopped at almost a direct straight line from the northern shore of the Gulf. I read something that most folks over in that area still speak a dialect of Thai. Pete

[Bamboo Grove]

prcscct is right about that part of Burma. Also most of Malayan peninsula, Cambodia and Laos belonged to Thailand or were its tributary states in the early 1800's.

[Jaime]

I always thought that Brittany (Bretagne) was named thus because of its proximity to the British Isles.

Just to clarify that one Guess, it only became 'Brittany' as a result of the strong cultural influence of the inwardly migrating Britons. Hence the linguistic similarities between the Breton and Welsh languages.

I will have a think about the Siam question (and probably some Googling!)

[Guess]

I will have a think about the Siam question (and probably some Googling!)

Good I will check out Encarta and Brittanica.

BTW, is the Cornish dialect that is still spoken today a direct relative of Welsh and Breton.

[Guess]

I believ it will be impossible to get a definitive answer on this as cartography was not in common usage here in the 18th & 19th centuries. However it looks like that under Rama II that Siam occupied all the territories that it ever did although borders are not clearly defined.

BG's post ties up with my knowledge. As for the Thai Language, Pete is correct there, in fact Thai is still the mother tounge of peoples from 7 different modern nations but in most countries in a dialect that would not be understood by Central Thais (the common dialect spoken today by most Thais). Even Lao as spoken in the country of Lao is not easily understood today outside of the region. I have experienced this myself in Lao where two young Thai men could not make themselves understood in Vientianne.

Anyway as to the original question, this is what I have dug up.

When his (Rama I) son succeeded him as King Rama II (Phraphutthaloetla) in 1809, the Thai kingdom was stronger and more extensive than ever, encompassing all of present-day Laos as well as portions of northeastern Burma, western Cambodia, and the northern Malay Peninsula.

By rough estimation that would make it about twice the size it is today. Vast areas were ceded by colonial (British and French) powers on many occasions since with the largest shift being the splitting up of the Laos into Isan and Lao. I believe that the small area of Lao west of the Mekong is still under (inactive) dispute.

There seems to be very little evidence regarding the sourthern borders locations probably because there were none. The six states have always (well at least since the Kingdom of Ayutthia and Sukhothai were at their heights) been contested over and is the root cause of the problems there today.

[Guess]

Back on English Football Geography. A converstaion came up last night with BG and friend as to what was the most central English Soccer Team.

That then posed to question, how to calculate the centre.

The first ide was to draw line from the northern most point to the southernmost point and again from the most easterly point to the most westerly point and see where they cross.

I have done that and the lines cross at aTruro in Cornwall. Hardly the centre.

The second method was to use the longest line of longitude and the longest line of latitude and see where they cross. That worked out to be Birmingham. That was a bit more like the expected answer. However not really the centre. Birmingham is 74 KM from the Welsh border and a whole 261 KM from the East Coast making it considerably off centre.

Has anybody any ideas how the centre can be accurately calculated.

There are many towns that claim to be the centre including Aylesbury and Northampton. Has anybody heard of any others?

[chelsea]

Guess if you have a UK map available. try taking lines across these points and see what you come up with

The Ness at Lowestoff (most easterly point of Great Britain)
Berwick on Tweed (the most Northerly point of England)
Land's End (most Westerly point of England)
Lizard Point (most southerly point of England)

According to what I have read the traditional centre-point of England is marked by a stone cross at Meriden (a village set midway between Birmingham and Coventry)

All the info above I found in an article on this web site. It give you all of the cardinal points of England & the UK and also the various meridian lines.
http://www.sterlingtimes.org/memorable_images41.htm

Hope that helps to clear up your question