Leaving a bar

Discussion on where to go when the sun goes down in Hua Hin; bars, pubs, clubs, karaoke and general nightlife.
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littlebird
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by littlebird »

advocate wrote:I don't think belittling the OP is the right thing to do.
What's done is done.

The least we can do, especially from those of us that have been here long enough to know the ropes, is give him our best advice and wish him well.
Thankyou for that, I expected, of course, the usual 'what a prat, I know everything about Thailand and have never been taken for a ride' responses which are, sadly, often typical of many comments on here.
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by advocate »

Your welcome!
I do feel sorry for your friend though.
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by richard »

I don't know whether to laugh or cry

:roll: :roll:

Some good points from both sides of the fence but 'up to you' may be the appropriate thing

Time, IMO, to let the thread RIP :duck:
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Super Joe
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by Super Joe »

littlebird wrote:
advocate wrote:With respect, while she may be an "asset" to the bar, the same as any pretty girl in a bar anywhere in the world, she is still a human being and a casual employee, not property or an asset to be sold by someone else.

Just because something is customary does not make it right.
The above is the point I guess I was trying to get at (obviously unsuccessfully). Anyway, after much heated discussion the owner (who rips off the girls tremendously) did give me a receipt, obviously not stating exactly what the money was paid for (as in human trafficking), my satisfaction being that at least with an 'official' receipt the owner may have to pay tax on it. A small but significant up yours to the owner
We can forget all talk of what is 'right or wrong', 'contractual obligations' to the bar and all that stuff if we want to be consistent. If we're just looking for excuses to save a few bob, then fine use them. If the 'custom' was that everytime one of their 'girls' get to be looked after there was free drink flowing all night, we'd all have f.o. hangover already, no question about it.

Everything about the bar is 'wrong' or 'contractually-crippled' from the prostitution aspect to the lack of minimum wage to the flouting of every Thai labour law going, all of which... makes it about the best going don't it? When was the last time you were quiteWhen was the last time we complained or asked for a receipt while watching the Champions league final at 4am 50 yards from HH Temple!? When Man U won it, that's when. We embrace all these other perceived 'wrongs' with open arms and no questions asked when they suit us, so why not this 5,000 Baht one, hmmm. Where is our moral compass when we give this mean, horrible bar owner an extra 40b on a lady drink so she'll sit on our lap. How many times have we 'wronged' a bar owner by agreeing to meet the girl over karaoke in an hour rather than pay the barfine :wink:

Surely this comes down to two things, firstly... is it a 'bar custom' or not? ----- Secondly, wtf's a 'bar custom' :laugh: ----- Clearly it is generally/a lot of the time/if the owner feels like it etc. I've paid it twice, both around 5k I think. And it's a custom in many bars in Hua Hin that I know of, plus the owner-partner of one of HH's longest established and respected bars, had just confirmed the practice at theirs. I can't understand why people think paying 6k in nightly bar fines for a 3 week holiday is ok, but paying 5k to take the bird home on the airplane with you is morally wrong. Because you're not 'contractually obliged' to :laugh:

I think cos it is a custom, a done thing, then it's a bit of a slap in the face for the girl if you don't pay it and there's a fuss in front of her mates... or she can't go back when you dump her for her mate. And likewise I think she's out of order if she pockets her half, that is if they do get half, not sure what the arrangement is. I know this'll never happpen but... she should get it and say to the fella, c'mon lets go on the pi$$ with this...

Personally I think it is 'right' an owner charges it, very right that he considers how much the both of you have contributed already to the bar, right down to waiving it if she's worked there years, or you've been drinking there say 6 months plus. But think it's 'wrong' if the girl get's it, and just pockets her half.

:cheers:
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by uncle tom »

Without wishing to enter the debate as to whether the OP got a good deal - or not - I would point out that any guy who is happy to take care of a single Thai mother will find himself indecently spoilt for choice, with ladies who have mostly never set foot in a bar; if he browses the various dating sites.

Being a single mother is not a clever place to be in Thailand, and most want nothing more than a kind guy who can afford them a little security and respectability. Looks and age difference count for little.

However, one should be wary of taking on a girl with a poverty stricken extended family, as they will always look to the richest member of the tribe, whenever there's a crisis..
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TheBludger
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by TheBludger »

Forcing a receipt for a bar girl? If you feel that strongly about the injustice, I think that abstinence may be the best option.
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by advocate »

In the end the amount of money being debated here is of little consequence.
Does that justify abandoning principles?
Maybe so, as there is little point going through life sweating the small stuff.
Only time will tell if it was worthwhile.
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margaretcarnes
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by margaretcarnes »

littlebird wrote:The question was to try to find out other peoples experiences of this - is it accepted practice or should the the owner just be told to F off
OK a sensible answer - yes in my experience (as an ex bar owner) it is not common practice for a receipt to be given. A bin might be made out - as they are for ordinary bar fines - but that is just for a farang owner to balance the takings.
What normally happens is that a bar fine of any sort is split between bar and girl. But that's in a fair society - what bars actually do can, and does, vary.
And remember that at the end of the day it is up to the girl. As Richard says they are free to leave a job at the drop of a knicker leg any time.
What does irk any bar owner is when a girl quits her job to spend time with a farang without the bar fine being paid - that is seen as unfair - and when it happens it is doubtful that the girl would get her job back anyway. She has in effect cheated the bar.
Then of course you have another problem of knowing whether a girl is employed or freelance. And believe me often a farang owner isn't even sure. A freelancer though is still expected to earn fines for the bar, because they are using the premises. Best to just go with the flow and cough up. TIT.
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by Takiap »

I'm still trying to get my head around this......lol. I can understand the concept of bar fines, I can't understand why anything would need to be paid if the girl is leaving her job. Anyway, I guess you learn something new in Thailand every day, even if you've been here for 14 years...lol


:cheers:
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by advocate »

It is in the bar owners best interest to have people believe the the fine is customary, but fail to provide any rational reason for it, other than that they want the money.

The girl is quiting the bar, why should the man have to pay the barfine if she doesn't work there anymore. Thats the point of quiting, she will no longer be working there and so responsibilites to the bar should end when her employment does. If she is going to live with a man, then why does she expect to need her job back.

If she quits for any other reason besides meeting a falang, then no bar fine is due. Seems the bar owners want to be paid just bc the falang can pay, not bc the money is rightfully owed.

Having said the above, it may just be better to pay than risk violence.
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malcolminthemiddle
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by malcolminthemiddle »

These girls have little in the way of security. The bar offers a modicum of security. The rationale behind the “leaving fine” or "compensation" is to maintain that modicum of security if the relationship doesn’t work out.

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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by advocate »

To my mind living with a falang provides far more security than any bar. Usually all living expenses are paid, often in a nice home, and usually with an allowance.

I'm not sure whether a girl receiving half of the bar fine would consider that amount as providing a modicum of security and doubt she would decline to live with a falang who refused to pay the fine.

But this is Thailand after all so maybe they do rationalize the fine as malcom says.
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by malcolminthemiddle »

Moving from the bar to living with a falang is just one step up a very long ladder when starting close to the bottom.

It is not a share of the “compensation” that provides the modicum of security but the knowledge that she can return to the bar if the relationship doesn’t work out.

If any one should be asking for a receipt, it should be the gal.
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by advocate »

Refusing to allow the girl to return to the bar unless the bar fine is paid is a way to ensure she puts pressure on the falang to pay.
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Re: Leaving a bar

Post by margaretcarnes »

malcolminthemiddle wrote:Moving from the bar to living with a falang is just one step up a very long ladder when starting close to the bottom.

It is not a share of the “compensation” that provides the modicum of security but the knowledge that she can return to the bar if the relationship doesn’t work out.

If any one should be asking for a receipt, it should be the gal.

Spot on. Farang who are simply on holiday (I don't know if the OP is - but lets assume) are going to disappear in a week or two. The girls need the security of having a job to go back to. The bar owners need staff to cover for the girls absence.
How many times do we see farang on holiday - take girl out of bar - go home - arrange to send regular money to girl on the understanding that she doesn't work the bar again?
Things aren't often like that. The girls - quite rightly IMO - want to keep their options open. Even if the new relationship is with a known expat it still takes time to find out if it's going to work out for BOTH of them. (And for the family, farm, buffalo, pickup truck, ailing granny.... :naughty: )
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