Yamsaard school

[Spitfire]

.....I'd estimate annual cost to be 100,000.....

For that, you should be getting quite a bit, especially if that's for kindergarden. Really a teacher that teaches secondary school should have a CELTA (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) or a TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language), these are the benchmarks, although a CELTA is given more credit internationally as you can fail it as that is not the case with the TEFL. Those that have a DELTA (Diploma in English Language Teaching to Adults) are usually to be found at places such as The British Council in Bangkok or the top universities or international schools and are much more expensive. If teaching kids or kindergarden then they should have a CELTYL (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Young Learners).

Ask them and see what they say, it is possible that they will "blow sunshine up your arse" but if you meet the teacher and are happy with them that's a start.

Decent places though will want to send their teachers to get one of these certificates at the earliest opportunity as they make a massive difference in ability and competence. OK, the more far flung places may cut corners on these things but in a place like Hua Hin the shcools "should" have their act together, certainly for 100,000 a year.

Best thing to do is ask questions related to what I've mentioned above.

-Can I meet her/his teacher for 5 minutes?
-Can I see a copy of the course that he/she will be doing?
-Is the course approved by Oxford/Cambridge or a official teaching authority? If not, then who made it?
-Do your teachers participate in career developement programs, and if so, where?
-Does the teacher have a CELTYL (for kids) CELTA/TEFL (for M1 and above)? If they don't have one then what training have they done? (Trust me, teaching young learners is way different than teaching adults)
-Do the teachers elicit, modal, drill?
-Do the teachers do group/pair work?
-What is a reading skills lesson like here? How is it conducted? Do you use MRT when doing receptive skills lessons? (MRT=Mininal Response Test)

The reason these certificates are important is because they are about modern teaching methods, not just the parrot fashion and whiteboard copout.

As far as curriculums are conserned many places are using British/American ones or take something from the Internet. Many places with older students (adult courses) are using "Headway" (Oxford) or "Cutting Edge" (Cambridge) and both Oxford and Cambridge do some exellent young learner courses/books.

Find out what they're using.

These sort of schools that charge so much and claim to be the best or one of the best in a certain area really should have their act together on the teacher hiring front as you can have all the facilities in the world but if you have sub-standard teachers then it all means nothing.

Most of what I've said is just good common sense and is not particulary aimed at any particular establishment. Any parent should consider the above and ask constructive questions on subjects that consern them as it's an important subject.

I do not know either school being talked about here and have never taught in Hua Hin so I am not being biased in any of this, either for or against. Just stating what should be going on for that price.

Feel free to use the terminology or points from my post as they are all correct teaching jargon and if they (head teacher/western teachers etc) don't understand what you are talking about then it's a red flag.

If I was teaching kindergarden then I would be expecting questions of such nature, especially from western expat parents.

MrP's post is also good.

Edit: Typos

[Big Boy]

Do you really need to spend such huge amounts on kids so young? At kintergarden age (which I'm assuming to be about ages 2 to 5) the kids are basically:

- learning to be away from mum and dad
- learning to play with other kids
- learning to share

They are going to get that in any Thai school, at a fraction of the cost. Real learning will come at a later age. Regarding the Thai/English education, surely at kintergarden age exposure of both languages at home will suffice.

I'm probably going to be given a 100 reasons why you need spend 100,000 Baht per year, but personally I can't see it as being any more than a status symbol/keeping up with the Jones'.

[nadina]

Nadina,
Whilst I am mildly sympathetic to your cause, I don't think teaching English anywhere should be a free for all. Whilst it is true that it is easier for inadequate white-skinned people to slip under the radar in Thailand, many of the German, Skandinavian and East European, candidates would not have made the same grammatical errors that you have made on your posts here.
For a parent, a good English teacher is a toss-up between those that have charisma, those that are organised and those that are dedicated. Alot of candidates have one of these, fewer have two but hardly any have all three. It should be taken for granted that the candidate speaks natural English to at least the level between Oxford's First Certificate and Proficiency. In your post, you make basic prepostional errors. However, I am confident that your natural social English is good - which is what most parents require.

You're funny...

[bigideas]

I wouldn't want to speak for anyone else, but for me, the main reason was that I'd put so much time and effort into making sure she spoke very good English that I couldn't justify, in my mind, wasting it by sending her to a school where she'd be educated solely in Thai. I thought she'd slowly turn into one of those "What did you do at school today?" "Mai Loo!!" kids. I also wanted to expose her to a less homogenous environment (as we may well go to England within 5 years.) The small class sizes (11 at the moment) were also a major factor. However, I can't deny that I figured that wealthier parents would be more likely to spend valuable time with their kids and so the kids would be more likely to be better informed and more confident.

[JimmyGreaves]

I can't deny that I figured that wealthier parents would be more likely to spend valuable time with their kids and so the kids would be more likely to be better informed and more confident.

Your very funny

[GLCQuantum]

A good few years back in Somtawin parents were complaining that we had a few filipino teachers in what was supposed to be an "international school". Their argument was that they are paying 80,000 plus a year and the school is employing teachers on a lesser / cheaper salary.

The truth is that the filipino teachers we had were on more money than me due to a degree in the RELEVENT subject being taught ( physics, biology, Masters in mathematics etc. ) Before I moved to Bangkok over a year ago I didn't realise that there was a salary difference between filipinos and a white skinned race. A filipino is given less than half of the salary as a white skinned farang in bangkok. I'm not sure of the deal in Yaamsaard, but I can tell you their was no racial inequality between teachers of different origins in Somtawin. All that mattered was if you could teach or not, and for the higher grades does the teacher know enough about the subject to teach it well.

In my interview at a bilingual school (the biggest) in Bangkok I was asked if I can teach Grade 12 maths. I told them that higher level maths is my weak spot, calculus and the works, and they said " Don't worry, you have the teachers book that you can read to the students with all the mathematical formulas inside". No thanks was my reply!!!

In Yaamsaard, are the filipinos on a lower salary than the white skinned farangs?

[GLCQuantum]

Spitfire said...

-Can I meet her/his teacher for 5 minutes?
-Can I see a copy of the course that he/she will be doing?
-Is the course approved by Oxford/Cambridge or a official teaching authority? If not, then who made it?
-Do your teachers participate in career developement programs, and if so, where?
-Does the teacher have a CELTYL (for kids) CELTA/TEFL (for M1 and above)? If they don't have one then what training have they done? (Trust me, teaching young learners is way different than teaching adults)
-Do the teachers elicit, modal, drill?
-Do the teachers do group/pair work?
-What is a reading skills lesson like here? How is it conducted? Do you use MRT when doing receptive skills lessons? (MRT=Mininal Response Test)

From your last post it is obvious that you know your stuff and fair play to you but....... you are paying less than 100,000 baht a year in the Hua Hin schools, what are you expecting, a fully certified ,trained, experienced teacher??

Of course the teachers will elicit, modal ,drill ( basic TEFL course, 6 weeks 40,000 baht )

Of couse the teachers will do group / pair work, the most effective way of the students using their new lexis with their friends ( thank you TEFL ) What you do need to ask about in a school is class sizes because anything over 25 in a class makes it very difficult to do classroom activities.

Oxford / Cambridge approved teaching certificates !!!!!!! It's less than 100,000 a year, the school 'aint Harrows mate!! ( Harrows salary 100,000 plus a month, Yamsaard or Somtawin 35,000 plus a month )

[PeteC]

Oxford / Cambridge approved teaching certificates !!!!!!! It's less than 100,000 a year, the school 'aint Harrows mate!!

GLC, this thread has been slowly winding it's way in the direction you mention above.

Is it really true at Harrows for example, that the teachers are better recruited, better skilled, and better adapted to function in a foreign country than the teachers in schools charging the 100K figure, give or take?

My point is that in any foreign country when an organization comes in and hypes it's 'superiority' so to speak, of course they then charge for that hype.

The old lady in Chicago once said "where's the beef..."? Pete

PS: Was the math position you declined at Harrows?

[GLCQuantum]

In reply to Pete, I have met many people with a Bachelors or Masters of Education and their interaction with students and general classroom management has been awful. They are here on holiday for an experience. I have also met bin men, scaffolders etc who came here and gave it a shot and with some determination became a great teacher who the kids were comfortable with and the parents liked.

Not everybody can become a teacher ( a good teacher ) there is a certain knack to it and it's not about bull...t pieces of paper stating where you studied before, but about the persons ethics, commitment and concern for the kids well being that counts. Of course with higher Education you need to have studied a relevant degree for that subject.

[GLCQuantum]

PS: Was the math position you declined at Harrows?

I couldn't get into Harrows if I payed them myself... I don't have a Masters degree, or any degree in any subject relevant to teaching!

[PeteC]

In reply to Pete, I have met many people with a Bachelors or Masters of Education and their interaction with students and general classroom management has been awful. They are here on holiday for an experience. I have also met bin men, scaffolders etc who came here and gave it a shot and with some determination became a great teacher who the kids were comfortable with and the parents liked.

Not everybody can become a teacher ( a good teacher ) there is a certain knack to it and it's not about bull...t pieces of paper stating where you studied before, but about the persons ethics, commitment and concern for the kids well being that counts. Of course with higher Education you need to have studied a relevant degree for that subject.

I respect what you're saying there, and the honesty about the PS. Pete

[Big Boy]

I wouldn't want to speak for anyone else, but for me, the main reason was that I'd put so much time and effort into making sure she spoke very good English that I couldn't justify, in my mind, wasting it by sending her to a school where she'd be educated solely in Thai. I thought she'd slowly turn into one of those "What did you do at school today?" "Mai Loo!!" kids. I also wanted to expose her to a less homogenous environment (as we may well go to England within 5 years.) The small class sizes (11 at the moment) were also a major factor. However, I can't deny that I figured that wealthier parents would be more likely to spend valuable time with their kids and so the kids would be more likely to be better informed and more confident.

I think you're kidding yourself. I've known loads of kids who have had nothing but a Thai education, and haven't spoke a word of Thai when they've arrived in the UK.

Through use of the UK state education system, several of them have gone on to University. In fact I was talking to a proud single (Thai) parent a couple of weeks ago who son has a place at Cambridge next year.

If the kid's English is lacking when they arrive, the UK state school support regime is excellent. At the end of the day, if the kid has it, the system will get it out of them.

I don't even see a class size of 11 being an advantage at kindergarten age ie they are learning to share and interact. With less kids around, there isn't going to be so much of a challenge.

Still, if you can afford 100,000 Baht per year, and it makes you feel better, then why not - it must be helping the Thai economy.

[nanyang]

she's not academic

given a poor grade

simply a poor teacher

Mr. Plum, you've been here too long as you are now demonstrating Thai 'logic'.


Were the parents of the kids who got a good grade 'agitated'?

[nanyang]

At the end of the day, if the kid has it, the system will get it out of them

In a nutshell.

I don't even see a class size of 11 being an advantage at kindergarten age ie they are learning to share and interact. With less kids around, there isn't going to be so much of a challenge.

Still, if you can afford 100,000 Baht per year, and it makes you feel better, then why not - it must be helping the Thai economy

I, wholeheartedly, support freedom of choice but, why anyone chooses to spend 100,000 baht per year so that their three year old can spend SIX hours a day away from its mother is beyond me.

[MrPlum]

she's not academic

given a poor grade

simply a poor teacher

Mr. Plum, you've been here too long as you are now demonstrating Thai 'logic'.

Enlighten me. What makes this specifically Thai 'logic'?