Yamsaard school

[bigideas]

I, wholeheartedly, support freedom of choice but, why anyone chooses to spend 100,000 baht per year so that their three year old can spend SIX hours a day away from its mother is beyond me.

Perhaps that's because you're not a mother who has just spent every waking hour of the past 3 years with her 3 year old and would like to get a life of her own on track again!

[bigideas]

I wouldn't want to speak for anyone else, but for me, the main reason was that I'd put so much time and effort into making sure she spoke very good English that I couldn't justify, in my mind, wasting it by sending her to a school where she'd be educated solely in Thai. I thought she'd slowly turn into one of those "What did you do at school today?" "Mai Loo!!" kids. I also wanted to expose her to a less homogenous environment (as we may well go to England within 5 years.) The small class sizes (11 at the moment) were also a major factor. However, I can't deny that I figured that wealthier parents would be more likely to spend valuable time with their kids and so the kids would be more likely to be better informed and more confident.

I think you're kidding yourself. I've known loads of kids who have had nothing but a Thai education, and haven't spoke a word of Thai when they've arrived in the UK.

Through use of the UK state education system, several of them have gone on to University. In fact I was talking to a proud single (Thai) parent a couple of weeks ago who son has a place at Cambridge next year.

If the kid's English is lacking when they arrive, the UK state school support regime is excellent. At the end of the day, if the kid has it, the system will get it out of them.

I don't even see a class size of 11 being an advantage at kindergarten age ie they are learning to share and interact. With less kids around, there isn't going to be so much of a challenge.

Still, if you can afford 100,000 Baht per year, and it makes you feel better, then why not - it must be helping the Thai economy.

My 3 year old, sitting at the back of a class of 30 Thai kids, feeling slightly the odd one out, thinking to herself "If papa wanted me to come here, what was the point of teaching me the ABC and speaking English all the time?"
Not on my watch!
As a parent you want to do the best for your child, not set them up as a factory worker!

Our plan is to audition for a London theatre school at age 10. We are a performing family and my daughter is already showing musical talent. We have homes in South of France, London and Hua Hin, and so it will be neccessary for my daughter to be tri-lingual to reap the benefits of her inheritance. We cannot afford to think small and cheap!

[Spitfire]

GLC, I agree about class sizes and how constricting a large class can make things, especially when you couple that with cultural reluctance to 'have a go' on your own in front of a class.

I know things are different in Bangkok to elsewhere but I have witnessed many teachers that cannot do the things you mentioned that they would "of course" do and are not easy to do unless trained.

I suppose, if you read my post on the first page, the point I was getting at is that there are not enough qualified teachers here and, as a parent, I would like to check that my kid wasn't being taught by a blagger for that price. The Thais often let them slip under the radar and vetting processes can be very lax.

Perhaps you are right that expecting Oxford/Cambridge qualified teachers is a bit much but I reckon those are still the right questions to ask as it may give you a more accurate vision of said place even if they cannot meet those requirements.

It's about being able to make an informed decision, as a parent, as to where you want your kid to go. You know, stuff like, is the kindergarden set-up an early learning opportunity or is it just baby sitting till the parents finish work? Is it just a "rack em and stack em" school?

The school will just 'fob everyone off' about how wonderful it is as that gets reputation/face and 'bums on seats' because the Thai parents will just 'follow the herd' and enrole a kid at the most expensive local place. The search for the truth about educational esablishments can be hard to uncover but can often be judged by the teachers empolyed along with turnover of staff.



Edit: Typos and clarity

[Big Boy]

bigideas wrote:

My 3 year old, sitting at the back of a class of 30 Thai kids, feeling slightly the odd one out, thinking to herself "If papa wanted me to come here, what was the point of teaching me the ABC and speaking English all the time?"
Not on my watch!
As a parent you want to do the best for your child, not set them up as a factory worker!

Our plan is to audition for a London theatre school at age 10. We are a performing family and my daughter is already showing musical talent. We have homes in South of France, London and Hua Hin, and so it will be neccessary for my daughter to be tri-lingual to reap the benefits of her inheritance. We cannot afford to think small and cheap!

Kids coming to the UK without a word of English and entering Cambridge next year after being developed through the UK's state education system - oh dear, his mother must be really disappointed at how the system has failed him Who will work in the factories now?

Obviously your daughter has been born with the proverbial silver spoon. If she has genuine talent, then I wish her well.

Perhaps that's because you're not a mother who has just spent every waking hour of the past 3 years with her 3 year old and would like to get a life of her own on track again!

Why did you bother having children in the first place? I just hope that you're not one of those parents trying to buy their child success as an excuse for their own shortcomings. If she has talent, then it will out. Please don't force it on her - you could turn her against what is currently coming natural to her.

I've always been an advocate of supporting your child in what they want (maybe with a little manipulation), rather than force feeding them.

[bigideas]

Obviously your daughter has been born with the proverbial silver spoon. If she has genuine talent, then I wish her well.
Why did you bother having children in the first place? I just hope that you're not one of those parents trying to buy their child success as an excuse for their own shortcomings. If she has talent, then it will out. Please don't force it on her - you could turn her against what is currently coming natural to her. I've always been an advocate of supporting your child in what they want (maybe with a little manipulation), rather than force feeding them.

Why is it that as soon as anyone mentions stage/theatre school people start talking about "child star" syndrome and pushy parents. I'm actually a jazz musician and have enjoyed a varied and largely unprofitable musical life. Stage/theatre schools do alot more than create child stars. They encourage confidence and nurture creativity and talent. They educate the person physically as well as mentally. They are also a slightly less expensive way to give your child a decent education than "public schools" in the UK. They tend to have above average GCSE and A level results. And they tend to produce head strong individuals that stand-out from the crowd. I have known actors, musicians and dancers my whole life and they are far and away the most memorable people I have come into contact with so far, as well as life long friends. However, I certainly wouldn't push my daughter into something she had no talent in and actually hated.

[Big Boy]

I have no issue with your daughter going to stage school if she has the ability - in fact I applaud your support

The issue here, if we is whether or not there is any real justification paying 100,000 Baht per annum to put a young kindergarten aged child through such expensive education.

We will have to agree to disagree, but I doubt whether your 3 year old daughter is learning any more than my youngest grand daughter, who is attending a Thai school. In fact I would bet my grand daughter will come out of it a lot more street wise.

I am not saying paying for 'English' education is a complete waste of time - far from it. However, IMHO this 'better' standard of education should be paid for only when the child is old enough to benefit from it.

[MrPlum]

Why is it that as soon as anyone mentions stage/theatre school people start talking about "child star" syndrome and pushy parents.

Not me. My aunt danced for the London Royal Ballet and is now a senior examiner. I lived for a couple of years with an artist/musician/good at every damn thing she focussed her mind on. My mother sang with a group before marriage put an end to it and my daughter is in a punkish band. She's pretty awful but she keeps getting gigs, so someone must like her.

I think those that develop right brained activities are usually terrific characters and the lives they lead are far more interesting than those who elevate logic and reason above all else. I've been pretty able with sport, computers and selling tatty sweaters in gypsy markets and have lived a varied and interesting life but it's colour-less compared to the rich inner world of artists and musicians. You can't do or be everything in life but I would have liked to be able to sing, dance and play the ukelele.

if you are able to place your child into this world, I'm envious.

[Super Joe]

Still reading the thread with interest, thanks for all the helpful info MrPlum and others.


Big Boy wrote (good question matey):

The issue here is whether or not there is any real justification paying 100,000 Baht per annum to put a young kindergarten aged child through such expensive education.

Leaving the money to one side, is selecting the best Kintergarden really that important considering their age ?
Can it affect their ability to learn easier during the next grade, or is not all that relevant to future development ?

First child so haven't much of a clue.

Cheers,

SJ

[migrant]

Still reading the thread with interest, thanks for all the helpful info MrPlum and others.


Big Boy wrote (good question matey):

The issue here is whether or not there is any real justification paying 100,000 Baht per annum to put a young kindergarten aged child through such expensive education.

Leaving the money to one side, is selecting the best Kintergarden really that important considering their age ?
Can it affect their ability to learn easier during the next grade, or is not all that relevant to future development ?

First child so haven't much of a clue.

Cheers,

SJ

IMHO the money is secondary, the quality of education is the key, of course. I'm speaking of the experience I've had, and seen, here in the states.

I've met people who are incredible schooled in the classics, perform high math, but haven't a clue when it comes to inter-personal skills, cooking an omelet, or changing a tire. As Big Boy mentioned, there is something to streetwise.

My son attended a very expensive, highly thought of school, and it gave him a good grounding. My daughter did not, but is doing great in university.

The quality of the school is important, IMHO, but there is much, much more to a childs education. Parental input is the key.

After my divorce, I moved back to California, and eventually had custody of my kids. I visited many schools, and found many that I did not want them to attend, but the ones I thought were good varied from an expensive private school, to a free public school.

My humble suggestion is to get involved with the kids education, and their school, tough if you work, but again, what are your priorities? By being involved you will get first hand knowledge of the quality of their education.

[bigideas]

Well said Migrant! "Get involved with the kids education....."
Try to offer some kind of continuum to her life at home. If the kid speaks mainly Thai at home, then perhaps you're right not to drop her into a foreign environment at kindergaarten, but if the kid speaks about 50/50 English/Thai then try your best to support both languages as they learn to interact with others at kindergaarten.
However, I have a friend who is an excellent teacher and has worked (in his opinion) in every kind of school in Thailand from the most expensive International school to the most overcrowded government school. He says that he would never have kids here because by P6 your child would have lost all their creativity, curiousity and powers of reasoning by a system which tells kids, 'this is wrong' and 'this is right' and 'don't ask any questions'. More reason to get involved with your kids education early.

On the 100,000bht issue.
Last year, I put serious consideration into returning to the UK mainly for schooling reasons. I did alot of research on schools in the local London area. There was a local primary which was alright, though with a high majority of Pakistani kids, and there was a montessori school which had a great website done by the kids and seemed to have great dedicated teachers and no bullying (according to inspection reports). Kids were also given musical training and French at a young age. The fees were 3000 to 4500 pounds per year depending on whether you wanted your child to attend 3,4 or 5 full days per week. Yamsaard is 2000 pounds per year at present and will probably be less next year due to the recovering pound. My point is that you will not find any kind of independent school in the UK for less than 3000 pounds per year. Yamsaard is cheap by comparison.

[bigideas]

Just had another thought about this idea of "streetwise" "street savvy". I've done streetwise. Streetwise is great if you're skint and you need to find a way to sell ping-pong balls on a street corner. I know plenty of people with what we call "the gift of the gab". However, I'm sure you know and I know that in the real world, there are "glass ceilings" keeping riff-raff out of real opportunities. You probably also know that if you want success in life, you need to know people in "the right circles". Especially in Thailand. Indeed it is also true that the earlier you join the club, the better placed you are within the club.

Furthermore, I'm not suggesting for one moment that any of you chaps are guilty of this, but there are many expats here who gladly spend over 100,000bt per month on household costs, expensive hobbies, running large cars, booze and girlfriends etc! But who flinch at a mere 400bt a day to asure their kids are well looked after at school and have perhaps 70% less of a chance of contracting any of the multitude of contagious deseases that kids pass around at school from sleeping in the vicinity of pigs and chickens!

[nanyang]

My 3 year old, sitting at the back of a class of 30 Thai kids, feeling slightly the odd one out

There was a local primary which was alright, though with a high majority of Pakistani kids

A mental picture is emerging!!

[JimmyGreaves]

Furthermore, I'm not suggesting for one moment that any of you chaps are guilty of this, but there are many expats here who gladly spend over 100,000bt per month on household costs, expensive hobbies, running large cars, booze and girlfriends etc! But who flinch at a mere 400bt a day to asure their kids are well looked after at school and have perhaps 70% less of a chance of contracting any of the multitude of contagious deseases that kids pass around at school from sleeping in the vicinity of pigs and chickens!

Yes but most of them are free and easy and don't have kids. Getting the impression that you are a right snob!

[bigideas]

Nanyang,
The point I was making with both of those remarks that you've kindly taken out of context for me is, that for me, the priority is to expose my child to a multi-ethnic classroom rather than one where there is a clear majority of one particular group. Hence the choice of Yamsaard over any of the other schools (except Somtawin - where my stepson still goes).

If I have any reservations about paying 100,000 bt for kindergaarten, it is that many of the parents who send their kids there (especially parents being both Thai) do not speak any English at home, and so send their kids to the school with absolutely no English at all, hoping that the teacher will do all the work for them. Therefore, those of us with kids who were reciting ABC at one and a half years and speak alot of English at home get frustrated that they are going so slowly (ie. covering one letter of the alphabet every two weeks. ) I actually worry about her regressing and forgetting stuff we do at home using vocabulary which far exceeds 'chair', 'table', 'book' and 'pencil' which she is learning at school. For this reason, I school her at home one day a week. Gives me peace of mind that she's going forwards not back. And I recommend it to other parents, especially if you send your kid to a homogenous Thai school.

[nanyang]

Nanyang,
The point I was making with both of those remarks that you've kindly taken out of context for me is, that for me, the priority is to expose my child to a multi-ethnic classroom rather than one where there is a clear majority of one particular group. Hence the choice of Yamsaard over any of the other schools (except Somtawin - where my stepson still goes).

O.K., in order that you're not 'taken out of context' (sic), please tell me where there is a multi-ethnic classroom at Yamsaard?

99% of the kids at Yamsaard speak Thai as L1.

A significant part of any exchange within a class, purported to be conducted in English, is in Thai.

When your child socializes with almost any other child in Thailand they will speak Thai.

There is nothing multi-ethnic about it.

Yes, your child's English will regress unless ?her exposure to the English language occupies a significant part of her time.

I have two daughters and I insist that they communicate with each other in English within my hearing - plaiting fog springs to mind!!