Strong Competition Between Hua Hin's Language Schools....

[pharvey]

Have heared a couple of stories recently where a number of language students on attempting to transfer from one school to another have had a fairly hard time of things - threats of visa cancellation etc. etc.

Has anyone else heared anything on this?

[Spitfire]

I obviously don't know for sure in HH, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it is so Pharvey. I have heard of similar ongoings in other places than HH along these lines too.

Sorry to be negative but............I suppose what we have to remember is that the field of education is not so "clean" either (OK, not quite as bad as property developing) once you venture behind the snappy facade. It's a profitable business, well here in LOS it is, and it's the bottom line that matters, plus throw in the percieved loss of face for the school the students are switching from and the gained face of the school being switched too.

If they get them their visas as they are foreign students then they have power over them, probably not resposible enough to have it though, "We'll threaten you because we can" sort of thing, that's fairly Asian, period.

Students here, both native and foreign, can be easily bullied by by such types of place/teachers ("You won't pass at normal school unless you attend this course run by this private school or come round to my house for lessons with 20 others"). This is including these private schools which cater for Thais and are often run as an automonous fiefdom of some Thai guy who runs it as his sideline cash cow in the evenings etc.

Of course, this doesn't apply to all language schools, some are very good. It's the transparency, or lack thereof, of them that really gives the game away.

Edit - Typos

[bapak]

Not sure if I should buy into this as I may be considered biased...

The Learning Centre does not consider ourself to be a language school as the bulk of our business is various type of computer training.

However, we do offer Thai and English language courses, and with both the Thai and Computer courses, we are entitled to provide documentation for the so-called ED Visa.

At least one other school in the area markets ED Visa courses as its main means of survival and will fight to the grim death to protect their market.

The government procedure to follow for a student to change schools is for the student to advise the school he/she is enrolled at that he wishes to cancel and request the school to give him a cancellation notice for the Education and Immigration Departments.

Two recent examples we can cite...

French student studying English for the past year with a "ED Visa" decided to quit and study a computer course with us. The other school refused, made threating phone calls and the main person actually went to the person's home and made threats regarding his visa. The Frenchman stood up to the threats and successfully transferred to us.

A Norwegian studying Thai for the past year with a "ED Visa" decided to change and enrol with us for one year. Mainly because he liked the teacher who was previously taught at the other school but was now at the Learning Centre. Many threats were made both in person and phone to him (mainly you will lose your visa)... some of which I have seen on SMS on his phone. As he only had 2 days left on his extension to stay, he surrendered... and resigned at the original school.

The main school in question has the practice of considering money received for 1 year in advance is there to be spent immediately with no plan to provide refunds if things go bad. Whereas, I am pleased to say, the Learning Centre consider such advance payments as just that, and is only utilised as the student progresses thoughout their course.

Forgive me if I seem to be rambling but at my age I am entitled to a little senility.

And Spitfire, I think you hit the nail on the head "..plus throw in the percieved loss of face for the school the students are switching from and the gained face of the school being switched too".

[Elaine]

Following an unfortunate experience I had with a "visa consultant" on the 4th floor of the Wongchomsin Building late last year, I went to the 3rd floor and made inquiries regarding Thai language classes at a school there. From the moment I entered I was being pushed to sign up for a education visa, almost to the point of harassment. But I finally walked out when I was offered for an extra payment of Baht 7000 ( it may have been 8000. Cannot remember for sure) that I would not have to renew my visa extension every 3 months. I knew that this was legally impossible from inquiries I had made in Bangkok the previous month. This arrangement may be ok for some people but I am of the firm belief that somewhere/sometime it will come unstuck.

[Procyon]

Holding students to ransom over their visa is a despicable act, these 'schools' should be named and shamed, they seem to be no more than mafia businesses.

[bapak]

Holding students to ransom over their visa is a despicable act, these 'schools' should be named and shamed, they seem to be no more than mafia businesses.

Problem is Thailand's libel law... Even if you prove that what you are saying/writing is the absolute truth, you can still be guilty of both criminal and civil law.

In the Thai Press you often see a politician accusing Mr S or Mrs X... everybody knows who they mean but the pollie will not be sued.

And I think that a large number of readers of this Forum are aware of who is being talked about..

Another factor is student are scared of making waves and having their visa cancelled.

[pharvey]

Another factor is student are scared of making waves and having their visa cancelled.

I'm absolutely sure I'm being completely naive here, but surely the students' visa is issued by the relevant authority (not the school) based on the fact that he or she is undertaking the requred course, for the required period to justify the afore mentioned visa. If the student changes schools, but is still undertaking the same or similar course and would still qualify for the visa........ what grounds would there be to cancel it?

[Roel]

Must be the same as having a visa or extension of stay based on employment. This is issued based on the paperwork provided by a particular employer. If the employment ends at any moment the visa becomes void the same day. I heard from people changing jobs it is possible to keep the visa but it is quite complicated and it requires not only co-operative authorities but also the former employer and the new one must both agree and co-operate. So there we have the problem.

[Spitfire]

Yeah Roel, agree, and you can add that some of these places might well like to keep the permit issued at the school, rather like some schools/colleges attempt to keep the blue book work permit of foreign teachers as it stipulates it has to be produced upon request or kept on the premises of the work place, either or is OK.

Best thing to do is to insist that you keep it or say that you have to buy a car or motorbike and need it, then just "forget" to give it back as the work place keeping it is in their interests, not yours.

This situation can also arise regarding returning the physical permit to the Labour Department at the termination of the the contract or learning course. Not returning it gets the school or place a real earful from the ministry, frowned upon completely and does the nameholder no good either should you want another one someplace else in the same area.

[bapak]

Another factor is student are scared of making waves and having their visa cancelled.

I'm absolutely sure I'm being completely naive here, but surely the students' visa is issued by the relevant authority (not the school) based on the fact that he or she is undertaking the requred course, for the required period to justify the afore mentioned visa. If the student changes schools, but is still undertaking the same or similar course and would still qualify for the visa........ what grounds would there be to cancel it?

Quite true, pharvey... but many ED Visa holders are ill-informed... and the hint or threat about there visa status is enough to make them afraid.

However, it is mostly smooth sailing... we recently had a student at Webster University who transferred to us... whole thing over and done within 1 day. Webster gave release and we had Education Department approval already in hand, so off to Immigration to get new stamp in passport (Baht 1900). It is only when the relinquishing school plays silly games that it becomes a problem.

[da]

Webster Thailand
Great to hear of folks waking up to smell the coffee and transferring out of Webster Thailand.

Highly fraudulent situations of the bad-acting director.
Also the long time the long time false-academic.

Cheers,

[JimmyGreaves]

Webster Thailand
Great to hear of folks waking up to smell the coffee and transferring out of Webster Thailand.
Highly fraudulent situations of the bad-acting director.
Also the long time the long time false-academic.
Cheers,

Where they going?

[Noz]

Do any of the local language schools offer ED visa courses for anything other than the Thai language?

[bapak]

Yes... Sirada - The Learning Centre is licensed to teach Thai/English/German/Japanese... and soon Mandarin.. What language are you interested in? Can email: info@learningcentre.co.th

[SunandFun]

Met the staff and owners there and I would definitely recommend it. I will be taking classes in December. They are also Forum Sponsors. I believe in supporting our sponsors. But regardless, this is a first class teaching academy.