Education Visas crackdown

[chopsticks]

This article is from the Pattaya Times :

According to the Deputy Director, the Thailand Ministry of Education is warning all schools who offer Education Visas to foreigners to be legitimate and make sure students adhere to attendance and testing requirements.

At the Pattaya City Expats Club meeting on Sunday, Immigration Volunteer and former British Consul Barry Kenyan stated the problem with Education visas as he observed it first-hand in the local Immigration office on Jomtien Beach Road, Soi 5.
“A guy came in and wanted to renew his Education visa for a 7th straight year. He waited in the queue and when it was his turn he sat at the Immigration officer’s desk in charge of Education Visas. He had all of his documents from the school. His application was completed and he had the two photos now required for any visa. So the officer looked at him and said, ‘You have been learning Thai for six years already. Is that right?’ The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, ‘The big fish eat the little fish.” The foreigner looked at him without a clue. The officer smiled and picked up a big red stamp and stamped “CANCELLED” on the remaining portion of the current visa and told the fellow he would not again receive an Education visa,” Barry reported.
The Deputy Director of the Thailand Ministry of Education recently summoned all language schools’ owners in Pattaya along with senior Chonburi Immigration Police Investigators to address this issue and notify the schools of the crackdown.
“Now any school found to be selling the Education visa simply to allow the foreigner to stay in Thailand and not attending the school will be closed down and lose their license. All of the school’s students, whether attending or not, will have their visas cancelled,” the representative of the Ministry of Education stated.
Going to school and learning Thai is one option for people to "long stay" in the Kingdom without having to constantly do "border runs." It is especially popular with those who can self-fund themselves living here and do not need to work but are not yet 50 years of age thus not being able to qualify for a Retirement Visa. A Pattaya Times undercover investigation has discovered that some schools are selling discounted "courses" where the "student" pays a reduced fee that gets them a visa but they have no intention of ever attending a class.
Every school in Pattaya has a maximum allocated student base dependent on classroom availability. One school in particular was named and shamed. The school in question has a maximum capacity of 160 students based on if the classrooms were full every minute of every day. Most schools have 40% of students sign up for second and third years, thus reducing the capacity of the school of new students in the second year by 40%. In the case of the capacity of the school above reducing the intake of new students to 96.
The education department in very strong language asked the particular school if they thought the education department was foolish and if they do not keep records. In the last three months this school had new sign ups of 80 students and was asked where they sit their students and where are the three extra classrooms they would require to cope with this over capacity. Even if the school opened all night they still would not be able to facilitate all the students.
It has also come to the notice of the Education Department that a lot of schools are using teachers to teach Thai who are not educated to Degree standard and they have warned this must stop.
Pol. Capt. Samruai Sa-Mann from Chonburi Immigration police then told all the schools that five foreign nationals are now working undercover on behalf of immigration trying to buy the visa from schools without attending classes.
He added, the schools will be prosecuted if the undercover investigators gather evidence of such practices.
They are also to investigate visa shops who are offering the Ed Visa and law firms who offer the Ed Visa as it is only registered schools who can offer these visas, Deputy Inspector Samruai said.
The Police Captain also added that it had also come to his attention that some schools were using foreign nationals teaching without work permits. Recently two Pattaya schools have been raided by his officers.
"If we catch teachers working in schools without a work permit, we will recommend to the Education Department that these offending schools should be closed. We will also be calling all people who advertise language lessons with a visa. We will book some lessons and on arrival we will be asking for work permits of people who we believe are working without work permits," said Pol. Capt. Samruai Sa-Mann from Chonburi Immigration.

[E-Dork]

So the officer looked at him and said, ‘You have been learning Thai for six years already. Is that right?’ The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said in Thai, ‘The big fish eat the little fish.” The foreigner looked at him without a clue.

If you have been here for 6 years and can't understand that simple sentence - you deserve to be on a plane back home.

It shows complete arrogance that a guy can't understand as much as that after being here so long. We scream blue murder when the stinkin' Pakis do the same in England. England would be a better place without the stinkin' Paki's and their children, just as Thailand would be a better place without the guys who come here with NO intention of intergrating and learning the ways of the people for whom we are merely guests.

You don't appreciate the country you live in..... well fck the hell off back home!

[dtaai-maai]

England would be a better place without the stinkin' Paki's and their children,

Way over the top.

You're an absolute disgrace.

[Spitfire]

Not a huge surprise that they are getting this visa into line, they've been threatening it for a while, as the piss has been completely taken by piles of garbage like the man in this post.

If you are here that long and just want to fornicate around in Pattaya all the time and the only way to stay is an education visa, well 'som-nam-na'.

These types of 'wash-outs' are too flaky and will probably end up in Cambodia with the rest of the baffoons that can't cut it in Thailand, goodbye to bad rubbish, I say.

[Korkenzieher]

Sorry, I read this thing entirely different.

The example of the individual who couldn't speak Thai having professed to have been learning it is fair enough but the reforms suggested are aimed at schools that are run as thinly disguised Visa mills - note the comments about underqualified teachers. The clear implication is that unqualified Thais are using the Visa program to make money by selling the visas and failing to educate or enforce attendance.

Surely, since it is the Ministry that regulates the schools, this is where the fault lies. You can hardly blame someone for doing an ED visa, as it is the easiest option, but you don't *have* to learn Thai - just a sanctioned course of education. That can include flower arranging, if it is OK'ed by the Ministry. In the case of the individual, he gets a slagging for not having learned Thai in 6 years. If you read MacW on TV, you'll see that he is in a position to offer Russian (I should declare that I know Mac). I myself am looking at doing an International Business School course next year - it also qualifies. There's people been here a lot longer than that chap who haven't learned a word. But they don't *have* to, because they aren't on ED visas specifically to learn the language. And so what? It is their passage through life to choose, and if they choose not to make it easier for themselves, I could care less.



@E-Dork - since you obviously can't keep your racist diatribes to yourself, you are now on my blocked list.

[Spitfire]

Korkenzieher,

OK, perhaps I was a little negative/harsh going with the assumption that he was a scammer, probably wouldn't be a surprise if he was though.

Both sides are culpable of course for creating the mess and not a surprise if the piss is being taken by the blaggers as it's an opening for them, but the holes are slowly being closed. Guess you were more forgiving of him as I just marked him as a Pattaya 'bar-fly' that wants to continue his physical gratification policy, maybe unfair.

I guess though, from the article, you can't discern which end of the stick he was from. You would have had to have been in the room with the Thai official to get that right, ie his manner/dress/attitude/approach etc.

Maybe he was a pile of crap or maybe the official was a racist fascist, can't tell, both equally likely.

Perhaps I was judgemental on him but it wouldn't be too 'wide-of-the-mark' to go with the scammer scenario, of course there are exceptions though.

I just thought that he appeared as the piss taking type as staying long term here now is not easy, unless you legitimately work, are rich and of retirement age, don't mind travelling a lot to border-hop every few weeks or just travel around with other stuff. The eduction visa has become a slightly lame excuse in recent times to stay 'on-the-cheap' here, with the connotations now attached to it, and has definitely been abused.

I do take the slant of your post, but there won't be any admissions of fault from the indigenous side of this on anything.

Guess it sounds like a 'stick waving' advert of intent from the ministry, whether they follow though effectively remains to be seen, but we'll sure here about it if so.

Yes, also interesting about the teachers working without work permits etc as there are many offenders of that one, certainly outside the main cities. The days of the blagging teacher are far from over in so many ways and places. Again though, the schools and the Thais that run them are just as guilty as the back-packer teachers scamming his way around the world.

I definitely agree though that the locals are to blame as they are the ones benefiting financially out of this with no regard to the law, which is pretty normal.

There's people been here a lot longer than that chap who haven't learned a word.

That is definitely true too, but they are often the bigoted old fools that won't be around for much longer. Sadly though, they screw it up for the rest of us on many fronts, not just this one.

[Korkenzieher]

I view the ED visa as an attempt largely to give people the option to stay legitimately if they want, without having to leap through the loops of age, marriage etc. - and that it is quite intentionally a soft touch. In other words, they are saying 'You can stay, but do something useful - like learn the language!'. It probably costs less these days to do ED than to fund the visa runs anyway. If you play the game it is easy - IMO quite rightly so. At the end of the day, that is a philosophical perspective. Perhaps one others don't share.

There are many who are not doing that (whatever it was they signed up to do) and I actually do think it is fair to challenge them on it. But if you look at it from the Thai side, then while it is quite reasonable to say 'stay, but learn some lingo', the downside is that the schools are largely concentrated in tourist locations - because that is where the people are - rather than in places where one might prefer to stay when one has made that choice. Try finding a language school in KhonKaen, Udon, Ubon, Nong Khai and the like. So if you want to stay, but not with the low-life (so to speak), it is really quite an awkward system.

[johnnyk]

They have these "schools" in Taiwan as well. Same idea. They are businesses operated by smart guys who saw a loophole big enough to drive through in a truck. They need to go after those people if they are serious though falang boy's ignorance of Thai is inexcusable after 6 years of residence.

[bozzman101]

may be in his case it should be the big bar girl eat the big fish !!!!!!!!!!!!! and little fish too !!!!he might have understood that one!!! pla yai kin pla len lor???

[johnnyk]

pla yai gin hoy?

[E-Dork]

Dtaii Maii said...

Way over the top.

You're an absolute disgrace.

When YOUR son is left in coma from a mugging by a group of young pakis in London, let me know if YOU are able to speak wonderful things about them.

[KateB]

To E-Dork

Firstly, I am truly sorry about your son and hope he made a full recovery.

Secondly, your racism has left me feeling physically sick.

Thirdly, I was mugged at knife-point in London a few years ago. There were two of them, both white, medium build, fair and in their mid-twenties....there are some violent, disgusting, frightening people out there.....I've found through 20 years of living in a particularly multicultural part of London that race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Lev]

E-dork, this thread is about ED visa crackdowns, please leave your racist comments at home.

[E-Dork]

To E-Dork

Firstly, I am truly sorry about your son and hope he made a full recovery.

Secondly, your racism has left me feeling physically sick.

A while back... son made a full recovery.

Racism??? Okay the 'stinkin' part could be left out but it's no different to what you hear every day with the 'farang' thing here. I didn't think people would start crying over it!! Jeeez.

[dozer]

Dork takes great pleasure in antagonizing this forum with his hate filled, bigoted rhetoric, I really don’t think he should be allowed to continue.