Legal status of illegal vehicle

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Gregjam
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Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Gregjam » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:54 pm

Here is one for those who are more familiar with Thai Law which appears on paper not so different from many western countries. I was always of the understanding that in the UK if you are in an accident and the other vehicle does not comply with the regulations (no helmet, numberplate, insurance, licence, MOT etc) then even if you are at fault it passes to the other party on the basis that as they have not followed the law they should not be on the road. I may well be wrong in this and it is more related to insurance so be sure to correct me if I am wrong.
In a similar situation here what would be the official status rather than the actual. Examples might be an impact with an unlicensed/helmetless motorcyclist, accident with uninsured/taxed vehicle.
I am well aware of what actually happens but cannot wonder what the legal status is of an uninsured driver who is allowed to continue and then has an accident resulting in a fatality. Perhaps they dont have a big enough pound for the confiscated vehicles if they followed the same practice as UK police for uninsured vehicles.

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Big Boy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:19 pm

I don't know what it says in the law books, but I was involved in an accident a few months back when a motorcyclist with no helmet, licence or insurance literally rode his bike under the front wheels of my truck. All that I could do was listen to the sound of bones and bike crushing under my truck.

Fortunately, through some miracle, the motorcyclist only suffered leg injuries (I thought I'd killed him).

We called the police, who had no interest in the motorcyclist's compliance with the law i.e. he was not charged because he had no licence, helmet or insurance. The accident was declared 50/50. I'm sure this strange decision was to ensure the damage to my truck was paid for by my insurance, rather than the other guy having to pay. He was a student, with little money (could afford a bike though). Damage to my truck was only about 3,500 Baht, which I paid without claiming from insurance.

The motorcyclist was left with no bike, a lot of pain and I'd imagine a hefty hospital bill (parents insisted he went to Bangkok Hospital - assuming the Farang had to pay).

Basically, what I am saying is it was down to the decision of the police officer in attendance. My insurance company (who I also called to the scene) had to go with the officer's decision. Maybe I could have objected, but Mrs BB's advice was to go with it, which I did.
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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Gregjam » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:35 pm

Thanks for the input Big Boy. As you can probably guess I have had a similar albeit far less traumatic experience and also on the advice of the wife did not put up too much resistance to the Police Officers verdict. My last one was about fifteen years ago near Hua Hin School on the lethal stretch of Pala-U road with similar results. Things have not changed at all.

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by buksida » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:48 pm

Similar experience a few years ago, we were hit by another car with no insurance. The police were not interested at all and we had to claim on our own insurance to repair our car which took six weeks.

The word 'law' in Thailand is a very loose term, as is the word 'police'.
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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Gregjam » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:09 am

It is interesting that there has not been a definitive response although not surprising.

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by StevePIraq » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:13 pm

Why not ask a lawyer if you want a definitive answer, I doubt anyone here fully knows Thai laws so any answer you get will only be based in personal experience. Most lawyers give the first consultation free. With Siam Legal you can even ask a question on line and in my case the response was extremely helpful and free.
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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by bluelagoon » Tue May 16, 2017 11:54 pm

buksida wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:48 pm
Similar experience a few years ago, we were hit by another car with no insurance. The police were not interested at all and we had to claim on our own insurance to repair our car which took six weeks.

The word 'law' in Thailand is a very loose term, as is the word 'police'.
So in other words, if a dishonest Thai wants to get a free operation he just needs to throw himself below a farang's vehicle :banghead: for the inefficient and/or corrupt police to verdict it's a 50/50 responsability?
Nonsense is better then no sense :laugh:

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by HHCanuck » Wed May 17, 2017 5:38 pm

I have to wonder how these 50/50 verdicts will work in the future with many people now having car cams. One would think insurance companies will not be so eager to agree with police verdicts when they have video evidence.

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by laphanphon » Wed May 17, 2017 5:53 pm

There is the law, as in court ruling, then there is the 'police law', which you can accept, or refuse. Accept, and done and over with, you know the end result. Refuse, then the law, is enforced and ruled upon in a 'court of law'.

UP2U which you prefer. Court of law takes a longer time, and maybe very long appealed, multiple times, and cost factor may be the same or even more, depending of course on the circumstance of the accident.

One thing that is a given, at least in my experiences and people I know, if going the 'court of law' route, your vehicle will be impounded until settlement is decided.
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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Name Taken » Thu May 18, 2017 9:03 am

laphanphon wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 5:53 pm
There is the law, as in court ruling, then there is the 'police law', which you can accept, or refuse. Accept, and done and over with, you know the end result. Refuse, then the law, is enforced and ruled upon in a 'court of law'.

UP2U which you prefer. Court of law takes a longer time, and maybe very long appealed, multiple times, and cost factor may be the same or even more, depending of course on the circumstance of the accident.

One thing that is a given, at least in my experiences and people I know, if going the 'court of law' route, your vehicle will be impounded until settlement is decided.
It does not work that way in the U.S., as far as I know.

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Dannie Boy » Thu May 18, 2017 9:28 am

Name Taken wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 9:03 am
laphanphon wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 5:53 pm
There is the law, as in court ruling, then there is the 'police law', which you can accept, or refuse. Accept, and done and over with, you know the end result. Refuse, then the law, is enforced and ruled upon in a 'court of law'.

UP2U which you prefer. Court of law takes a longer time, and maybe very long appealed, multiple times, and cost factor may be the same or even more, depending of course on the circumstance of the accident.

One thing that is a given, at least in my experiences and people I know, if going the 'court of law' route, your vehicle will be impounded until settlement is decided.
It does not work that way in the U.S., as far as I know.
But the thread is about the law in Thailand, not the US :banghead:

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Spitfire » Thu May 18, 2017 11:08 am

HHCanuck wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 5:38 pm
I have to wonder how these 50/50 verdicts will work in the future with many people now having car cams. One would think insurance companies will not be so eager to agree with police verdicts when they have video evidence.
Yes, it will be interesting to see how this could alter things if they bring in the proposed 5-10% discount for a dash cam and you have to provide footage of any accident. The insurance companies could well grow a spine when it comes to this sort of "police verdicts" you often hear of if this is enacted as we all know how adverse the police are to video evidence of stuff.

Since I had a dash cam installed 12 months ago I've been waved through every police check/stop operation I've been through....none of them want to end up on YouTube.
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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by bluelagoon » Fri May 19, 2017 2:43 am

Spitfire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 11:08 am
HHCanuck wrote:
Wed May 17, 2017 5:38 pm
I have to wonder how these 50/50 verdicts will work in the future with many people now having car cams. One would think insurance companies will not be so eager to agree with police verdicts when they have video evidence.
Yes, it will be interesting to see how this could alter things if they bring in the proposed 5-10% discount for a dash cam and you have to provide footage of any accident. The insurance companies could well grow a spine when it comes to this sort of "police verdicts" you often hear of if this is enacted as we all know how adverse the police are to video evidence of stuff.

Since I had a dash cam installed 12 months ago I've been waved through every police check/stop operation I've been through....none of them want to end up on YouTube.
I am tempted to put one that films the front, one on the side and one that films the back and naturally have them well visible, to avoid any attempt of making the "checks" behind the vehicle off footage, of police harassment or corruption!..Foreigners on the road seem a target with some of the corrupt boys in the Thai Police!!? :rasta: :tsk:
Nonsense is better then no sense :laugh:

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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Big Boy » Fri May 19, 2017 9:10 am

Spitfire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 11:08 am
Yes, it will be interesting to see how this could alter things if they bring in the proposed 5-10% discount for a dash cam and you have to provide footage of any accident. The insurance companies could well grow a spine when it comes to this sort of "police verdicts" you often hear of if this is enacted as we all know how adverse the police are to video evidence of stuff.
That is an interesting point.

In my example above, the kid was 100% to blame. However, the fact he wasn't insured swayed the police officer's decision to declare it 50/50. OK, repairs didn't cost much, but what if the damage was greater, and I produced video evidence. If the kid who was still at college was deemed to be responsible, would my insurance have been liable for any costs, when it was deemed the kid had no cash?
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Re: Legal status of illegal vehicle

Post by Spitfire » Fri May 19, 2017 10:33 am

Big Boy wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 9:10 am
In my example above, the kid was 100% to blame. However, the fact he wasn't insured swayed the police officer's decision to declare it 50/50. OK, repairs didn't cost much, but what if the damage was greater, and I produced video evidence. If the kid who was still at college was deemed to be responsible, would my insurance have been liable for any costs, when it was deemed the kid had no cash?
I think a video of you not being responsible will give the insurance guy that turns up the info he needs to say 'No' to paying for the kids vehicle/hospital expenses etc. but will pay for your vehicle (if you are fully comp) and they might well go after the kid or his parents for reinbursement money (not unheard of at all). I would guess that the insurance companies are getting scammed too much (even for here) if they are thinking of bringing in a discount for dash cams...the piss must be really being taken.

The reason, I think, why the cops do this 50/50 rubbish is so that both parties get sorted out a bit and if one person has insurance then let them pay...even if you are not at fault, good example of this mythical and laughable "Thainess" thing we often hear about. The fact that the kid has no right to even be on the road is lost on them somehow.

Generally, fully comp insurance for me is a given as I assume that probably 50% of other road users are essentually like this kid to greater or lesser degrees i.e no tax, insurance, license etc. and if I have one run into me (who has no insurance) I would pretty much assume that my insurance will pay for my car and then the insurance company would probably go after the responsible party for reinbursement. The key to this issue is to prove who is responsible without having to rely on some biased cops judgement because he wants to help the Thai kid or market trader that hasn't got money etc....instead of enforcing the law properly.

If you have a video and the kid has no insurance, tax, license etc. and you are on only 3rd party insurance then you would have to pay for your car, the cops should prosecute the kid whilst you should be free to go.....but as we all know, it's an unlikely set of events that is. Having fully comp insurance and a video of the incident should give you and the insurance company much more leverage than without a video, so can only be a good thing as should help keep the cop in line too. It's also a good thing if by some fluke-of-chance the other person has insurance but no dash cam then it makes the situation quickly resolved between the 2 insurance companies.

However, having a video of the incident basically takes away the cops unbalanced discretion/lies and best thing to do (if the cop seems at all biased against you) is just wait till the insurance guy turns up and let him do the talking.

The dash cam I use has readings for my speed, longitude/latitude GPS, distance to car in front, time of day/date and a couple other things plus has a 180 wide angle HD lens so has a really good image.
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