Catching the dog

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Gregjam
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Catching the dog

Post by Gregjam » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:00 pm

Any practical suggestions please.
One of our dogs is due for her rabies jab. Taken in when young and semi feral she is now seven and is very difficult to catch without getting bitten (last time it cost me more for my treatment than her jab and tick infestation treatment). She had a collar but while I was away at work the wife took it off her and also the long term tick collar too. The dog is kept in the garden as a result of her being a nuisance if allowed out. Unfortunately training her to walk on a lead never happened (being here only six months a year meant it had to be done by the Thai family which was a non starter).
I tried to get the family to ask the vet for a sedative so we could spike her food, put a collar on and hold her/take her to the vet but they said the vet would not give us a tablet which I find strange.
Any helpful suggestions or experiences?

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by laphanphon » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:06 am

Valiums
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Mark Twain

Thank God for Atheists

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by moja » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:23 am

there is guy at Cha'am stray dogs who has a dart gun, apparently he is very good. You can then take the dog to the vet sedated. Sorry I do not have the phone number but I am sure it is easy to find.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by RCer » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:08 am

Ask one of the shelters to come out and catch the dog for you. Make a cash donation to them for the service.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by MDMK » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:40 am

I have fostered feral cats in the past and am no hero when it comes to having to catch them and crate them. Now I know a cat is not a dog, but my method has a fair chance of working (I have used this with very timid scared foster dogs but never had a feral dog). It's not rocket science. It just takes a lot of patience and playing the long game.

Get a crate, leave it open in the the place the dog spends most time. Feed the dog in the general vicinity of the crate. But not IN the crate. Keep doing this for a week till the dog gets used to the crate just being there. At no point try to get him to go in the crate. Then slowly but surely move the food closer each day to the crate. When you first put the food into the crate make sure he can remain outside and just stick his head inside the crate to eat. Do not rush any of this. If there is any treat he is crazy for, then start giving him that treat IN the crate, Again starting putting it right at the front by the crate door so he can just stick his head in to get his treat. If you do get him to go into the crate, close the door for a few seconds, then let him right back out and give him praise and treats galore.

if you have a month (and a shed load of patience) then use it, slow and steady wins here.

if you are in a bit of a hurry and can't go through all this palaver, then do as RCer says and call the local shelter, they'll come with a loop-pole (one of those long rods with a slip loop on the end that they put loosely around the dogs neck from a safe distance, then tighten it)

try to avoid this though if you can, as you have limited amounts of tries with the pole method. You will catch him the first time around, maybe even the next time too... but clever dogs get wise to it pretty quickly, and it's not pleasant for the dog or the handler.

The best way is to USE food and treats to your advantage. Same goes for attention, if he likes attention, then he gets all of it around (then eventually, in) the crate.

I know it all sounds a massive pain.... but it needn't take much actual time at all. You just have to be consistent and patient. You won't get the reward tomorrow, but 2-4 weeks can work absolute wonders.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by Gregjam » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:41 am

Thanks for the advice so far. The wife managed to get a collar on the dog as part of a cautious grooming session (the dog is shedding its winter coat) and I am enlisting one of my nephews who looks after the fifteen dogs my wife supports out in the village. The dog likes him and he has just vaccinated all except one out there. I am trying the careful loving approach at first and if necessary will be using some of the advice gven. I will update as the story develops as we have yet to put the tick collar on.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by Dannie Boy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:07 am

Gregjam wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:41 am
Thanks for the advice so far. The wife managed to get a collar on the dog as part of a cautious grooming session (the dog is shedding its winter coat) and I am enlisting one of my nephews who looks after the fifteen dogs my wife supports out in the village. The dog likes him and he has just vaccinated all except one out there. I am trying the careful loving approach at first and if necessary will be using some of the advice gven. I will update as the story develops as we have yet to put the tick collar on.
With the collar on, will you be able to slip a muzzle on the dog?

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by Gregjam » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:59 pm

With the collar on it will be much easier to get a firm hold of her. Once she realises there is no easy escape she usually calms down. In the past it was while trying to get a grip that the problems occurred. The muzzle will be ready however should it be required.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by Homer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:22 am

My 2 cents worth that you didn't ask for. Keeping a dog that has bitten you more than once is like a battered woman staying with the man responsible for her emergency room visits. Her friends and loved ones don't understand why she doesn't leave. At least she can't get rabies.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by RCer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 am

I have a problem with the idea of using a treat or food as bait.

The first may be fine, but after that the dog will associate the treat or food with something it dislikes or is unpleasant.

I prefer keeping the 2 separate in the dog's mind. Food and treats should be used to enforce good behavior.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by MDMK » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:41 pm

RCer, in an ideal world I might even agree with you. There ARE better ways. I have never needed to bribe my own pets to get a lead on them or get them into a crate or carrier. With rescues/ferals it's a whole other kettle of fish as you're never working in anywhere near ideal (own pet) situations. The OP in this post did say his dog was semi feral.

Take one feral cat I had, he was a youngish male, feral, intact .... then he got beat up, badly. Landed in the shelter needing emergency surgery. Tail amputated as someone had "hacked" at it, open wounds everywhere (probably knife wounds), many of them needing stitched. When the vet had the cat under g.a. they castrated him as well. He came to me 24hrs after arriving in the shelter, about 20 hours after his surgery. We all knew a big problem would arise 2 weeks later as he would have to be crated to go to the vet at the shelter to have the stitches in his tail removed. 2 weeks is nigh on impossible to get a feral comfortable enough that you can pick it up and put it in a crate. So at that moment you have a difficult choice.

Handlers from the shelter come into my home with a slip loop pole and catch him that way, that is real last ditch with an animal in as poor a shape (physically as well as mentally) as this one was, or you make the crate somewhere he wants to be and will go in and out of easily. So that's what you do. Brought him home, put a dog crate in my spare room (the room the cat would recuperate in and stay in until he was ready to start socialising) and every meal/treat he got was centred in or around the crate. In the beginning we removed a whole side of the crate. Then replaced that side but removed the door. Then the door back in but taped open.

Was it ideal? No, there are better ways. Just none that any of the people in the shelter could think of. Vets and certified trainers / animal behaviourists included. Bribery/baiting in this way is often used in the rescue world.

And if the crate is the only place where food is available, well you kinda force their hand in as far as.... they want fed, then they're gonna have to go back into the crate to get it. I have never had more than a day needed to get them back in their crates eating after I have tricked/baited them.

Rescues and ferals are in so many ways totally incomparable to our own pet dogs and cats. And often you simply to have to choose the lesser of two evils, depending on the dog/cat, baiting it with food into a crate is often far more humane and far less stressful then catching it with a slip loop pole.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by Gregjam » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:39 pm

Some good points being raised and thanks to everyone for the input. In response to Homer, if I was here permanently I don't think the problems would have arisen but on a 3 month here and 3 month away rotation I feel that the dog offers some security as it lives outside the house and has only shown aggression towards threats (or vaccinations!). It is normally very close to me and being from a semi feral background I accept this quirk. If it ever bit me for no reason then it would be meeting its maker rather quickly.
The vet is due sometime this week as is the nehew so at present I am not doing anything to put the dog on edge as I am well aware that the first attempt will be the easiest, after that the dog will be very alert although reading up n it a diazepam dosed sausage will likely slow it down if it comes to it.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by Gregjam » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:21 am

An update for those interested although not much of one. Nephew arrived and, to my surprise, they did not try to do the other dog first but as expected planning was absent. Instead of gettng the jab ready knowing that if failure occured it could be used on the other dog, nothing was done until another person held the collar of the problem dog. Needless to say, the story does not have an ending as the dog resisted and the one holding her was possibly not the best person to do it (being polite here). Faced with some very sharp teeth and a noisy wriggling dog the grip was not firm enough and muzzle not ready. Dog got free and is now very wary but as I was not directly involved will still come to me which was the main idea of this.
It appears that getting the team in from the pound is not the wifes favourite plan and will only be pursued if plan B, using a sedative, fails. Wifey being overly sensitive to all of this has arranged for this to happen while we are away visiting the family in Chiang Mai. This is probably better all round as I am sure the dog is fuelled by the wifes nervousness and tension. I think she (the wife) would present a challenge to Cesar Milan! With her out of the way the dog will be calmer and I am confident the family will get the job done.

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by MDMK » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:36 pm

failure to plan is planning to fail as they say :-)

hope all works out well while you and your wife are away

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Re: Catching the dog

Post by Gregjam » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 pm

And so the final update. This morning the nephew turns up with some liquid obtained from the vet. Not sure which vet or if I would say if I knew. The dog was not fed yesterday evening and the dosed chicken hardly touched the sides on the way down. Within half an hour the dog was “woozy” and although it did not sleep was, with the use of a towel over its head, compliant. Vaccine duly given and Serestra anti bug collar in place. All this before the wife and I left for our trip.
Although I was not there the dog was attended until it recovered and while I am now in Bangkok the family have updated us that the dog is back to normal. Obviously good stuff from the vet. Almost tempted to try it on the wife so I get some peace and quiet on the long drive up to Chiang Mai later in the week.
Getting the dog catchers in was an option that was discussed and an option we fortunately did not have to take. Hopefully next year the family will remember where they got the magic liquid.

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