Things that really shocked you about Thailand

[Takiap]

One thing which I suppose falls into this category, was my surprise at how even the police will refuse to enforce certain laws. Sometimes this is a bad thing, but sometimes, at least in my opinion, it's a good thing.


For example, having more than two people on a motorbike, bikes with sidecars, and etc. How many families would end up suffering if the police decided to put a stop to all this. For many, owning a car is nothing more than a dream, and for many, a modified motorbike and side hack are what puts food on the table. Many families simply can't afford to pay for two taxis everyday in order to get their kids to school and back, so overloading a motorbike is their only option. Alternatively, they could take their kids out of school, or better still, just don't have any kids, but that would mean only the rich can have a family. The government could also take it upon themselves to provide school transport, and to provide decent unemployment wages so that people don't have to drive around selling things from the modified bikes. Of course that money would have to come from the "wealthy" taxpayer, which of course would make a lot of people very unhappy, and quite rightly so.

Personally I think the "live and let live" attitude is wonderful. I wonder how much money countries like the UK would save if they followed suite by telling those who sit around receiving benefits to get off their asses and go earn their living. My guess is, there would probably be a decrease in the population as well because I'm sure a lot of leeches would leave if the well ran dry.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's far easier for Thais to support themselves than it is for people in most westernized nations, and this is partly due to people like the police who understand the hardships of others, and are therefor willing to turn a blind eye.

Changing your life around from one of poverty to one which is comfortable, is in a way, well withing the reach of nearly all Thais. For most locals, the biggest hurdle they are faced with is self pity and/or laziness. I have personally seen a guy in Takiap start of with virtually nothing apart from a few pots, a few plastic plates and etc. Before long he had a thriving noodle business going, and then another, and then a number of other little ventures going as well. Today he has a nice home and drives a nice car, and that all with no outside help. Of course he had ONE crucial thing in his favor - FREEDOM.

[Siani]

One thing which I suppose falls into this category, was my surprise at how even the police will refuse to enforce certain laws. Sometimes this is a bad thing, but sometimes, at least in my opinion, it's a good thing.


For example, having more than two people on a motorbike, bikes with sidecars, and etc. How many families would end up suffering if the police decided to put a stop to all this. For many, owning a car is nothing more than a dream, and for many, a modified motorbike and side hack are what puts food on the table. Many families simply can't afford to pay for two taxis everyday in order to get their kids to school and back, so overloading a motorbike is their only option. Alternatively, they could take their kids out of school, or better still, just don't have any kids, but that would mean only the rich can have a family. The government could also take it upon themselves to provide school transport, and to provide decent unemployment wages so that people don't have to drive around selling things from the modified bikes. Of course that money would have to come from the "wealthy" taxpayer, which of course would make a lot of people very unhappy, and quite rightly so.

Personally I think the "live and let live" attitude is wonderful. I wonder how much money countries like the UK would save if they followed suite by telling those who sit around receiving benefits to get off their asses and go earn their living. My guess is, there would probably be a decrease in the population as well because I'm sure a lot of leeches would leave if the well ran dry.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's far easier for Thais to support themselves than it is for people in most westernized nations, and this is partly due to people like the police who understand the hardships of others, and are therefor willing to turn a blind eye.

Changing your life around from one of poverty to one which is comfortable, is in a way, well withing the reach of nearly all Thais. For most locals, the biggest hurdle they are faced with is self pity and/or laziness. I have personally seen a guy in Takiap start of with virtually nothing apart from a few pots, a few plastic plates and etc. Before long he had a thriving noodle business going, and then another, and then a number of other little ventures going as well. Today he has a nice home and drives a nice car, and that all with no outside help. Of course he had ONE crucial thing in his favor - FREEDOM.

I know you mean well in what you say...BUT...I would never put my family at risk the way the Thai 's do with issues like road safety

When I was a child I walked to school, yes, not in the blazing heat, but got there sometimes in the freezing cold, soaking wet.

Turning a blind eye is not solving a very serious problem here in Thailand....safety. No crash helmets, driving like maniacs...not only are they putting their family at risk, other lives, including mine!

Freedom? That is debatable

[Vital Spark]

That was a great post Takiap. You summed up the life of a working-class Thai family superbly.

Living for 6 years in a poor rural village the other side of the by-pass really opened my eyes to the options that these people have. They literally lived hand to mouth, with most of them working at the Dole Thailand factory down the road on the minimum wage of 167 baht a day. The nearest high-school was 5kms from the village, and the kids had to be there before 8am. Those that were lucky enough to be given a bicycle under the Taksin regime found that the pedals fell off after about 6 months.

There were only a couple of places to buy food in the area and the only option for a day out is the trusty motorcycle. When the choice is to buy a helmet with the day's wages, buy some food, or pay the electricity bill, it's a no brainer. Add onto that the Buddhist belief that your life is pre-destined, then the safety aspect doesn't come into the picture at all.

There's a lot of freedom here Siani, which is why it suits us down to the ground, and, as Takiap says, offers some rare opportunities to those with the ability to capitalise on it.

VS

[richard]

One thing which I suppose falls into this category, was my surprise at how even the police will refuse to enforce certain laws. Sometimes this is a bad thing, but sometimes, at least in my opinion, it's a good thing.


For example, having more than two people on a motorbike, bikes with sidecars, and etc. How many families would end up suffering if the police decided to put a stop to all this. For many, owning a car is nothing more than a dream, and for many, a modified motorbike and side hack are what puts food on the table. Many families simply can't afford to pay for two taxis everyday in order to get their kids to school and back, so overloading a motorbike is their only option. Alternatively, they could take their kids out of school, or better still, just don't have any kids, but that would mean only the rich can have a family. The government could also take it upon themselves to provide school transport, and to provide decent unemployment wages so that people don't have to drive around selling things from the modified bikes. Of course that money would have to come from the "wealthy" taxpayer, which of course would make a lot of people very unhappy, and quite rightly so.

Personally I think the "live and let live" attitude is wonderful. I wonder how much money countries like the UK would save if they followed suite by telling those who sit around receiving benefits to get off their asses and go earn their living. My guess is, there would probably be a decrease in the population as well because I'm sure a lot of leeches would leave if the well ran dry.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's far easier for Thais to support themselves than it is for people in most westernized nations, and this is partly due to people like the police who understand the hardships of others, and are therefor willing to turn a blind eye.

Changing your life around from one of poverty to one which is comfortable, is in a way, well withing the reach of nearly all Thais. For most locals, the biggest hurdle they are faced with is self pity and/or laziness. I have personally seen a guy in Takiap start of with virtually nothing apart from a few pots, a few plastic plates and etc. Before long he had a thriving noodle business going, and then another, and then a number of other little ventures going as well. Today he has a nice home and drives a nice car, and that all with no outside help. Of course he had ONE crucial thing in his favor - FREEDOM.

I know you mean well in what you say...BUT...I would never put my family at risk the way the Thai 's do with issues like road safety

When I was a child I walked to school, yes, not in the blazing heat, but got there sometimes in the freezing cold, soaking wet.

Turning a blind eye is not solving a very serious problem here in Thailand....safety. No crash helmets, driving like maniacs...not only are they putting their family at risk, other lives, including mine!

Freedom? That is debatable

IT'S BUDDHAS WILL

That is drilled into them from birth

Do not try and impose western logic on a Buddhist country you are

[charlesh]

Another 1 for pleng - how quickly the Thais gave into the Japs in WWII. Maybe explains the sushi phenomena in shopping complexes.

[HHADFan]

"The original type of sushi, known today as nare-zushi (馴れ寿司, 熟寿司), was first developed in Southeast Asia, and spread to south China before..."

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sushi

This shocked me a little. Wikipedia says sushi originated SE Asia, of which Thailand is a part, and originally involved fermented rice. Now sushi has come home in a big way.

[HHADFan]

IT'S BUDDHAS WILL

That is drilled into them from birth

Do not try and impose western logic on a Buddhist country you are

Yeah, try having a conversation about how maybe putting on those f***ing seatbelts might make people safer than having so many icons hanging from the mirror that the driver can't see!

Indeed.

I always wear my seatbelt and the Thai family thinks I'm crazy. When the inevitable wreck happens, at least I'll be there to help with triage. Grim, ain't it?

Edit to add: They think all farang are crazy, so my 'seatbelt fetish' and my 'helmet fetish' are just written off as normal farang craziness. The laws of physics (f = ma) don't apply here, but the laws of Buddha do. Richard, you nailed it.

[Siani]

Add onto that the Buddhist belief that your life is pre-destined, then the safety aspect doesn't come into the picture at all.

There's a lot of freedom here Siani, which is why it suits us down to the ground, and, as Takiap says, offers some rare opportunities to those with the ability to capitalise on it.

VS

I do not think that religion comes into safety of your family. I realise that it is expensive to kit out a family with helmets. I know that in many rural areas the family budget stretches to bottles of whiskey. I suppose it’s a matter of getting things into perspective Also does it take the whole family to take the children to school? I see 4 people plus dog on bikes, why can't one of them take the children to school?

My comment on freedom was that it was debateable. Takiap spoke about the man with the plastic plates, doing well and buying a car. A success story for him apparently. When this successful man tries to get any of his children a visa to travel to Europe etc, he may find that the application is refused. It is not easy for Thai people to travel abroad. That is what I meant by freedom VS.

IT'S BUDDHAS WILL

That is drilled into them from birth

Do not try and impose western logic on a Buddhist country you are

Richard I would not try the impose western logic on a Buddhist country, why would I want to do that?? I respect the Buddist faith.

What we must remember here is that is is now Thai law to wear helmets apparently. The Thai enforced this law, nothing whatsoever to do with Buddists. There are muslims, other foreigners here also, do they abide by the law, no, don't think so, not all of them.

[Siani]

Add onto that the Buddhist belief that your life is pre-destined, then the safety aspect doesn't come into the picture at all.

There's a lot of freedom here Siani, which is why it suits us down to the ground, and, as Takiap says, offers some rare opportunities to those with the ability to capitalise on it.

VS

I do not think that religion comes into safety of your family. I realise that it is expensive to kit out a family with helmets. I know that in many rural areas the family budget stretches to bottles of whiskey. I suppose it’s a matter of getting things into perspective Also does it take the whole family to take the children to school? I see 4 people plus dog on bikes, why can't one of them take the children to school?

My comment on freedom was that it was debateable. Takiap spoke about the man with the plastic plates, doing well and buying a car. A success story for him apparently. When this successful man tries to get any of his children a visa to travel to Europe etc, he may find that the application is refused. It is not easy for Thai people to travel abroad. That is what I meant by freedom VS.

IT'S BUDDHAS WILL

That is drilled into them from birth

Do not try and impose western logic on a Buddhist country you are

Richard I would not try the impose western logic on a Buddhist country, why would I want to do that?? I respect the Buddist faith.

What we must remember here is that is is now Thai law to wear helmets apparently. The Thai enforced this law, nothing whatsoever to do with Buddists. There are muslims, other foreigners here also, do they abide by the law, no, don't think so, not all of them.

I meant to add that should any of these bike accidents result in severe disabilities, can the hospitals cope with it all? Can the family cope with looking after the child, mother, father in this situation should they be severely cripped or unable to work and support their family?

I think that is really important to wear helmets, maybe more than school uniforms. Progress is important. Knowing dangers from accidents, disease etc. Even down to HIV ..wearing condoms. Yes in rural towns where the traffic is not so busy, maybe a blind eye is turned. In down town Hua Hin where the traffic is manic, no it should not be turned. Outside the MV the police pull up mainly foreigners for not wearing helmets...why we ask? Simple answer...money spinner

There are such things as progress in all countries. The King has always been a highly respected head. The people respect and trust what the King says and does. Quite rightly so, we should take a leaf out of their books. This is a little history...

Modernisation history of Thailand

Commonly known as King Mongkut (Phra Chom Klao to the Thais), Rama IV was a colourful and innovative Chakri king. He originally missed out on the throne in deference to his half-brother, Rama III, and lived as a Budd­hist monk for 27 years. During his long monastic term he became adept in Sanskrit, Pali, Latin and English, studied Western sciences and adopted the strict discipline of local Mon monks. He kept an eye on the outside world and, when he took the throne in 1851, immediately courted diplomatic relations with a few European nations, taking care to evade colonisation.

In addition, he attempted to demythologise Thai religion by aligning Buddhist cosmology with modern science, and founded the Thammayut monastic sect, based on the strict discipline he had followed as a monk.

King Mongkut loosened Thai trade restrictions and many Western powers signed trade agreements with the monarch. He also sponsored Siam’s second printing press and instituted educational reforms, developing a school system along European lines. Although the king courted the West, he did so with caution and warned his subjects, ‘Whatever they have invented or done which we should know of and do, we can imitate and learn from them, but do not wholeheartedly believe in them’. Mongkut was the first monarch to show his face to Thai commoners in public.

Mongkut’s son King Chulalongkorn (known to the Thais as Rama V or Chula Chom Klao; r 1868–1910) continued his father’s tradition of reform, especially in the legal and administrative realms. Educated by European tutors, Rama V abolished prostration before the king as well as slavery and corvée (state labour). Siam further benefited from relations with European nations and the USA: railways were built, a civil service was established and the legal code restructured. Although Siam still managed to avoid European colonisation, the king was compelled to concede territory to French Indochina (Laos in 1893 and Cambodia in 1907) and British Burma (three Malayan states in 1909) during his reign.

Rama V’s son King Vajiravudh (Mongkut Klao or Rama VI; r 1910–25), was educated in Britain and during his reign he introduced educational reforms, including compulsory education. He further ‘Westernised’ the nation by conforming the Thai calendar to Western models. His reign was clouded by a top-down push for Thai nationalism that resulted in strong anti-Chinese sentiment.

Before Vajiravudh’s reign Thai parents gave each of their children a single, original name, with no surname to identify family origins. In 1909 a royal decree required the adoption of Thai surnames for all Thai citizens – a move designed to parallel the European system of family surnames and to weed out Chinese names.

In 1912 a group of Thai military officers unsuccessfully attempted to overthrow the monarchy, the first in a series of coup attempts that have plagued Thai history. As a show of support for the Allies in WWI, Vajiravudh sent 1300 Thai troops to France in 1918.

[lomuamart]

The first couple of times over here in 1989 and a few years later, it was on holidays. Fancy hotels and never saw much of anything except said hotels and the "sleepy fishing village" that HH then was.
When I came over to live 9 years later, the ex was dragging me around the country, especially the Northeast and it was quite an eye opener.
The one thing that really struck me was the amount the rural Thais drank. Up until my first introduction, I had this view of the Thais as a people who occasionally enjoyed a beer or maybe two but not as out and out dipsos.
Of course, most aren't off their faces all the time but it did surprise me when I was introduced to village life and had the obligatory bottle of Chang/beer or some other more potent concoction thrust at me at 5-6am every day. Of course, I had to join in. Would have been rude not to.
I loved it, but the longest I managed to last was about two weeks before I had to high tail it back to HH before my liver gave out.

[richard]

Siani

I know it is law to wear a helmet but as with most laws a lot of Thais ignore them after a few days

I have been present at Buddhist ceremonies where cars and motorbikes are blessed and the Thai owners have been instructed that the vehicle is now blessed and safe and whatever happens after that is Buddhas will.

I've seen old people withdrawn from hospital to go home to die cos its Buddhas will.

Have you tried having a conversation with Thais about health & safety? They will nod, smile and mutter 'crazy farang'. Had relative of the wifes have a horrendous crash (when full of Lao Khow)on a motorbike. No helmet and dismissed from hospital as only cuts and lacerations. Watched him die slowly in his hammock and when I pointed out that a helmet would have saved him I got a 'don't interfere look' as I did when warning about open wounds going black would lead to Gangrene (read my article about living in Isaan)

Once again

[Takiap]

Siani


I think you will find Thais can travel abroad with relative ease. My wife has done so several times, sometimes with me, and sometimes on her own, and not only to my country. I also know of other Thais who have traveled around Europe, some of which are self employed.

Anyway, the freedom I was referring to is the level of freedom they/we have here in Thailand. I know some disagree, but I feel I have more freedom here than I have had anywhere else, and in fact, it's the main reason I'm still here.

[richard]

Anyway, the freedom I was referring to is the level of freedom they/we have here in Thailand. I know some disagree, but I feel I have more freedom here than I have had anywhere else, and in fact, it's the main reason I'm still here.

[Coldmike]

I also agree there is more freedom in Thailand and I like it that way. Yes, foreigners have to report in and can't work, buy land etc, but I feel more free than in the US. I would clarify though that the authorities do look away from minor violations of the poor, but the wealthy get much much more leeway, almost to the riduculous level.

Takiab, only wealthy Thais are able to get visas to many European countrys or USA. Even student visas are only granted if there is significant $. In the US, even wealth students have been finishing (or not) their education and overstaying their visas to earn money in restaurants or any other work they can find. This has caused a bit of a tightening on visa granting to young Thais of all levels.

I also totally disagree with Siani. If any of us had to support a family on 200 - 300 baht per day we would all probably kill ourselves. Budda's will, who knows. I could see myself taking many more shortcuts and risks if I had to survive on very little money. Choices and compromises have to be made. Obviously helmets and other safe driving and living measures should be automatic and required if they can be afforded.

The reliance on Bhudism as a safety net is a defense mechanism over things we can't control. Really no different than Christian failth that Jesus, Mary, St. Christopher or God knows who will protect us.

Every time I fly or drive long distance my wife makes me wear an amulet to protect me. If the plane crashes, Richard, your right...Budda's will

[Siani]

Takiab, only wealthy Thais are able to get visas to many European countrys or USA. Even student visas are only granted if there is significant $. In the US, even wealth students have been finishing (or not) their education and overstaying their visas to earn money in restaurants or any other work they can find. This has caused a bit of a tightening on visa granting to young Thais of all levels.

I also totally disagree with Siani. If any of us had to support a family on 200 - 300 baht per day we would all probably kill ourselves. Budda's will, who knows. I could see myself taking many more shortcuts and risks if I had to survive on very little money. Choices and compromises have to be made. Obviously helmets and other safe driving and living measures should be automatic and required if they can be afforded.

Yes, only wealthy Thai's. My son has been trying to get a visa for his girlfriend to vast his home in the UK. It was refused. Really difficult, even though she has a long term respectable job

I agree it is difficult to manage on 200 baht a day, impossible for Thai's let alone for westerners. I wonder though, why the use of a bicycle is not used more here in Thailand. Everyone has motorbikes. There would be no fuel costs if used more and also not necessary to wear a crash helmet. I went to school on a bicycle from the age of 6, I cycled 3 miles, sometimes in the dark, rain & snow. I even cycled when I outgrew the bike with my knees knocking on the handlebars! If my pedal fell off, my father fixed it back on. Back in the 50's we did not have a car, all the family had bicycles, second-hand. Both my parents were teachers, not on great money at the time.