Pros and Cons of Colonization

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laphanphon
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by laphanphon » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:16 am

oakdale160 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:40 am
Another problem with Colonialism is that countries did not send out their best and brightest to the colonies. Wealthy families who had a not-so-bright son could ship him off to the colonies--out of sight, out of mind.
Or those simply that didn't want to live under the tyranny any more, and waste hard earn money on taxes supporting the elite.

Why some of us are here.

@ handdrummer ...... your comparisons are apples to oranges. As an expat, yes, cheaper here. As a local, extremely expensive, considering purchasing power vs hrs worked to have.

Lived in Philly, Memphis, Detroit metro, along with NJ and WV rural. Never an issue for an affordable lifestyle. Land of opportunity for those that apply themselves and take advantage. I could live in the USA with the same standard of living I am living here. Simply chose location wisely, a state that doesn't tax you to death.

Will admit, the bushs, clinton and obama, has sacrificed the middle class for the elite's lifestyle. But the ignorant sheep accepted it, apparently voted for and endorsed their present living state.

I didn't, I left in 2001 when we started invading sovereign countries for corporate profits.
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by 404cameljockey » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:09 pm

laphanphon wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:20 pm
404cameljockey wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:33 pm
laphanphon wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:41 am
In reality, there really isn't an 'pros' for colonization, unless you are the invading force.

Difficult to have a discussion anyway when eurotrash and his shouty adversaries are polluting the thread. Mods seem happy with it though.

OK you are entitled to your opinion, and to ignore the advances that colonisation brought to civilisations that were willing to accept them (those that didn't of course did not benefit). But I think many of the comments that precede yours have more weight.
Advances ??? What advances worth dying for ???

Well not many accepted them, when they were able to defend themselves. If not wiped out. Most revolting against their foreign, far away overseers. As they seemed to be the only ones benefiting, their bank accounts.

The reason why no Empires left, nobody wanted to be part of 'colonization'. Being conquered or forced into unfair trade agreements (EIT Co) ..... is the colonization that was rejected over and over.
Hard to know where to start with that. :) Britain gave up most of its Empire willingly. If you knew any of the history, which it seems that you probably don't, the cost of running the Empire (which was mostly about global presence, to protect trading arrangements) was a huge burden even before WWII which effectively bankrupt the UK (thanks for that lease-lend, USA). The Empire was dismantled peacefully and the ex colonies kept the benefits of modernization that ad been brought to them, and many, many stayed in friendly relations (The Commonwealth?).

I'm afraid you probably know nothing of British rule (and both local political support and opposition) in Malaysia, Burma, Kenya and a host of others. I think your understanding of the pros and cons at least of the British Empire is based on the USA and Australia (where there were definitely no pros as far as the indigenous people were concerned) and maybe India (where a large part of the educated population in fact agree that British rule brought many benefits).

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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by 404cameljockey » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:15 pm

oakdale160 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:40 am
Another problem with Colonialism is that countries did not send out their best and brightest to the colonies. Wealthy families who had a not-so-bright son could ship him off to the colonies--out of sight, out of mind.
Actually a posting to India was a plum position, where decent and educated men could advance quickly, even if starting from a clerks' position. That's why purchasing an officer's commission was something that any middle class or well off father would try to obtain for his sons, together with the necessary introduction to the overseas governor from a wealthy or well connected friend or relative (to become a patron). Women also used to make the journey to find a suitable husband.

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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by laphanphon » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:41 pm

404cameljockey wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:09 pm
Britain gave up most of its Empire willingly.
That's one opinion. :shock:

I doubt very much if the 'colonials' agree with though. :roll:

History........I know, thank you. :tsk:
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by caller » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pm

laphanphon wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:41 pm
I doubt very much if the 'colonials' agree with though. :roll:
They would in Canada in 1867 and Australia in 1901. All very civilised and a natural progression from colony to nation. There are others.
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by dtaai-maai » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:23 am

caller wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pm
laphanphon wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:41 pm
I doubt very much if the 'colonials' agree with though. :roll:
They would in Canada in 1867 and Australia in 1901. All very civilised and a natural progression from colony to nation. There are others.
Yes, there are many others. Perhaps lapthingy is just think of the War of Independence, which was something of a one-off.

By the end of World War I, the Empire was dying a natural death. By the end of World War II the death rattle was deafening. Britain was broke. Both politically and financially the empire was no longer viable. The biggest problem was how to deal with making the numerous countries independent while avoiding total chaos and civil war (the obvious example being India).

On the whole it was probably handled as effectively as possible. The reason why the development of many of these countries immediately stopped is a matter of opinion, the fact that the empire handed over independence voluntarily is no more an opinion than the fact that the Allies defeated the Axis powers in World War II.
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by laphanphon » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:45 am

caller wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pm
They would in Canada in 1867 and Australia in 1901. All very civilised and a natural progression from colony to nation. There are others.
Really........Hmm, wonder what the Canadian Independence Days is all about.

OZ, the prison island. Lots of choices there, and the Aborigines, how did that workout for them.

Revolts against just England for independence:
American Revolutionary War‎
Chilembwe uprising
Cyprus Emergency‎ E
Egyptian Revolution of 1919‎
Egyptian Revolution of 1952
Indian Rebellion of 1857‎
Irish War of Independence‎
Mau Mau Uprising‎
Pontiac's War‎
Urabi Revolt
1931 Cyprus revolt
Barrackpore mutiny of 1824
Bussa rebellion
Fakir-Sannyasi rebellion
Fédon's rebellion
Irish Rebellion of 1798
Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine
Malayan Emergency

Just in Latin Americas, against a few others, and too many, just list the countries seeking independence from being; British, Spanish, Portuguese, and French colonies in the Americas:

Caribbean Is.
Argentina
Bolivia
Chile
Colombia
Ecuador
Mexico
Uruguay
Paraguay
Peru
Venezuela

Sure there's many more, finally won their freedom from under the Empires of past. Too many actually. I guess the short list would be the ones that welcome being ruled over.

Can't think of one myself, but don't really care. But 'pros' of colonization, not buying it.
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by dtaai-maai » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:28 am

Google is obviously your friend.
I'm sorry, I obviously misunderstood your original point. I thought we were talking about how the British Empire ended, not whether there was ever any opposition to it in the first place, which goes without question.
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by musungu » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:55 am

I am not going to say very much but I was brought up in East Africa many decades ago so I experienced living under Colonization and more importantly also after Independence.

I found that having set up a civil service so many things worked very well eg ( in no particular order of merit) roads and works, land Office, collection of taxes, town planning, courts of justice,police, immigration, bus services , train services, and more. Also there was never a real problem with electricity and water services.

These were continued basically unchanged after independence and gave the new administrations and excellent start up.
Over the last 2 decades traffic has increased alarmingly and as with many of the start up services they have deteriorated. Corruption is rife but that is true in many countries.

So whilst this is a huge subject I can honestly say that IMO there was a huge benefit for East Afica. What was achieved after independence is another story both good and bad. I have kept in constant contact with friends still living there and last visited 5 years ago.
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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by HHTel » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:43 pm

Good to hear from "the horse's mouth"

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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by handdrummer » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:13 pm

If we could have the benefits of colonization without the repression of the native population that would be good. Sort of a benevolent dictatorship. Ain't gonna happen.

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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by 404cameljockey » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Nice to have a balanced discussion anyway.

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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by 404cameljockey » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:12 pm

handdrummer wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:13 pm
If we could have the benefits of colonization without the repression of the native population that would be good. Sort of a benevolent dictatorship. Ain't gonna happen.
India in the 19th century and early 20th century was run by a vast class of Indian governors, judges, civil servants, etc. There were just a handful of British in India over them. India was governing itself, but under British rule.

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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by handdrummer » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:55 pm

404cameljockey wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:12 pm
handdrummer wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:13 pm
If we could have the benefits of colonization without the repression of the native population that would be good. Sort of a benevolent dictatorship. Ain't gonna happen.
India in the 19th century and early 20th century was run by a vast class of Indian governors, judges, civil servants, etc. There were just a handful of British in India over them. India was governing itself, but under British rule.
According to several history sites it wasn't until 1885 that India had "self-rule" and even then it was overseen by the British without much power given to the Indians. Once obtained, no one wants to give up power and the profits associated with it. On the surface things may look one way and underneath it's something else. Whether in the boardroom or the government that's politics and how the world has been run since forever.

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Re: Pros and Cons of Colonization

Post by caller » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:06 pm

laphanphon wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:45 am
caller wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 pm
They would in Canada in 1867 and Australia in 1901. All very civilised and a natural progression from colony to nation. There are others.
Really........Hmm, wonder what the Canadian Independence Days is all about.
Celebrating the birth of their nation. What do you think it's all about?
Talk is cheap

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