Foreigners can lead by example

[sandman67]

indeed mate.....

lets just say its been a long day.

[dtaai-maai]

Aren't they all, sandman - tough old life, eh?

[clive]

Morning Wanderlust, rather than bore the hell out of everyone on here I have sent you a reply on a pm.

[Cowtown Comedy]

Why do we consume so much time analyzing, judging and comparing the behaviors of kon thai? And please don't attack for saying this because i fall victim to this as well. I give myself a slap on a regular basis when I catch myself criticizing the behavior or attitude of thai people. Were we sent here on a mission to reform these people? I don't recall getting those marching papers. Why did I move to LOS? Was it for the money?...hahahahah...Was it to educate kon thai about the west?....No..I moved here to escape the idealistic beliefs of the western world. Take a moment and forget about the west, and enjoy the thai culture.

[margaretcarnes]

Mission Impossible Cowtown! Agreed, if you can't beat 'em join 'em. It's much easier that way, and as the great BT said many times - 'huMAN natURE'

[crazy88]

Nereus wrote

"But in my experience it is very difficult to instruct Thais in anything, which again goes back to the education "system", in as much that it is completely foreign to them to accept anything outside the box that they have grown up in. If you can get around that I have found that they learn very quickly. (most of them, anyway!)"

Nereus,please do not take this as a dig but rather possiible fuel for constructive discussion .Who's box is it here ? Are we retiring/emigrating to a foreign land/culture with the aim of converting the locals to our ways ? Should we be trying to apply our own values and opinions on any nation or people rather than trying to understand theirs ? IMO many of us do so without realising .Over to the forum .

Crazy 88

[Nereus]

Nereus wrote

"But in my experience it is very difficult to instruct Thais in anything, which again goes back to the education "system", in as much that it is completely foreign to them to accept anything outside the box that they have grown up in. If you can get around that I have found that they learn very quickly. (most of them, anyway!)"

Nereus,please do not take this as a dig but rather possiible fuel for constructive discussion .Who's box is it here ? Are we retiring/emigrating to a foreign land/culture with the aim of converting the locals to our ways ? Should we be trying to apply our own values and opinions on any nation or people rather than trying to understand theirs ? IMO many of us do so without realising .Over to the forum .

Crazy 88

No offence taken. I was referring more to technical / practical everyday things, rather than trying, (or wanting) to change any cultural ways.

Building methods are one example. In the past they have built some incredible structures, but try and get them to lay some concrete with some fall / slope on it, so that the water runs away from the front door, or the B----dy drain hole in the shower, and you immediately get the blank look. How about we lay some plastic sheeting to stop moisture rising through the same concrete. What about running an earth / ground wire to that shower or socket outlet, so that your kids don`t get electrocuted.

Walk on the side of the road facing the (normal) traffic flow. What???, Baa! Put a helmet on your kids head before you go off 4 up on that motorsai.

My point was and is, that the concept of applying some logic, rather than just accepting what the teacher told them, is surrounded by a box.

[margaretcarnes]

Not so long ago, in little old England, we went to school and sat quietly and (sometimes) attentively while teachers told us what they thought we needed to know. This went on for the first 7 or 8 years of school life. Then we were encouraged to ask questions a bit more, and to do that we had to put up our hands and wait until noticed.
We were, in fact, in those little boxes. Straying outside of the boxes could result in a well aimed board rubber whizzing past our ears, or detention or lines.
Only in fifth or sixth form was debate encouraged.
Now primary school agendas include teaching 5 year olds their rights. Their right to be treated equally, have good food, learn in a safe environment etc.
The point is - we have moved on. Maybe too quickly for some. Maybe too far for others. Have our educational standards improved as a result? Are we turning out literate, numerate, and polite young adults? Is this the example we want Thailand to follow?
Let them take their own time, and find their own ways, to get outside of the box. Encourage and help by all means. As already pointed out, some will get to grips with concepts like lateral thinking - when they are good and ready. (And when their teachers are ready to cope with the change.) And by the time that happens, maybe little old England will be leading the way again, by churning out unqualified, illiterate social misfits, whose only skills are knowing their rights.
Just a thought.

[cozza]

Jaime

Out of the Asian markets, Japan has been hit the worst. Apart from them who else is really being effected?

Correct me if I am wrong, Hong Kong and China seem pretty steady and unaffected by the whole thing so far, though I am sure the downturn in spending and growth in the West will effect them, which further supports my argument that the West is responsible for the bleak upcomings predicted.

My initial point is that the problem with globalisation mainly headed by the 'former???' economic superpowers, USA and EU, has set a poor example to lead for the Asian economies.

I think the way the West does business in general is becoming outdated and Asian countries are catching up fast because they are learning from our mistakes.

[margaretcarnes]

Good points Cozza, though I think some of Chinas' trade with the West has already been affected for reasons other than economic. There's been some very bad press this year in the UK about their faulty and substandard toys for example, and many withdrawn from sale here. Also about the use of so called 'child labour', which was investigated in connection with clothing manufactured in China for Primark.
Small potatoes in the overall amount of Chinese products about, but with people now also cutting back its bound to have some effect.

[cozza]

margaretcarnes

Yep, and the milk scandal recently that hurt mainly Chinese is a reminder of the un-regulated system also.

Its like the wild west.

[Jaime]

Jaime

Out of the Asian markets, Japan has been hit the worst. Apart from them who else is really being effected?

Correct me if I am wrong, Hong Kong and China seem pretty steady and unaffected by the whole thing so far, though I am sure the downturn in spending and growth in the West will effect them, which further supports my argument that the West is responsible for the bleak upcomings predicted.

My initial point is that the problem with globalisation mainly headed by the 'former???' economic superpowers, USA and EU, has set a poor example to lead for the Asian economies.

I think the way the West does business in general is becoming outdated and Asian countries are catching up fast because they are learning from our mistakes.

Who else is really effected (sic) ..... The west is responsible....Setting a poor example to lead for the Asian economies.... Learning from our mistakes?

Cozza, I'm sorry mate but this just seems like unsubstantiated waffle to me. More than a little patronising too I contend, as I'm sure those fellas working the Asian markets know rather a lot more about the way it all works than you or I! However, if in doubt, blame the white man.

The fact that Asian economies are 'catching up' (debateable) means that they are behind to start with doesn't it? Of course China generates its own economic impetus but much of it's achievements are the result of a one party state system and all the problems that go with that! The divide between rich and poor is probably more acute in China than anywhere else in the world right now, despite having the advantage of the World's oldest civilisation. If anything, they've probably had more practice than the rest of us put together! In any event, Japan has the biggest stock market in Asia.

But back to your point. With the exception of China, all the key indexes in Asia have been falling at about the same rate as their European equivalents. The arse was falling out of the Jakarta exchange so fast that they suspended trading indefinitely! Other Asian markets, including Taipei, considered suspending trading but decided against.

Most Asian economies are heavily dependent on exports to the West. Aside from the lack of credit available for investment, the strengthening of their currencies against the Dollar & Euro will be very bad for business.

Todays news is that the Asian indexes have risen - though nowhere near as much as they have fallen of late - on the back of rallies in the European markets. So does that make us the bad guys yesterday and the good guys today?

They are all part of the same capitalist system! Greed is the fuel - and you shouldn't need me to tell you that recent Asian economic history shows that human beings the world over, whether white, brown, black, red or yellow are equally as susceptible to that particular deadly sin.

[margaretcarnes]

Slightly off topic Cozza (ok - a lot off topic!) but yes the milk scandal is spreading.
See todays Bangkok Post re Milo Condensed. Wish I'd spotted it before buying a tin at the Mall! Its enough to put you off condensed milk sandwiches for life!

[cozza]

Jaime,

I'm going to say you got me. But, I'm a sore loser.

[Jaime]

Ha ha! I like it!

Cozza you are a gent and a better man than I!

I owe you a pint!