I guess I deserve it. I was warned but now how what's done is done and how best to deal with it?
Here's the story. Met a lady working in a hotel. She seemed nice but one day was looking glum so I asked what was up. She said her car was going to be repossessed unless she found 8000 THB by the end of the month. I said ok (it wasn't so much) and lent her the money which she paid back on time. Since then she's tapped me a couple more times and paid back when she said she would. I've been scammed before by an Austrian guy called Sigi who took me for 54,000 THB so it's not only Thais who are alert for the main chance.
Anyway, so far no problems. Now this lady has got drawn in to playing cards and went with a bunch of girls to a Casino. Got in over her head and is now having to find 800,000 THB. I was shocked at the sum. How on earth could she have gotten in so bad? Here's the problem. The mafia or casino thugs have beaten her up once and now threatening to harm her daughter. So, she's obviously at wits end. I've lent her 40k but now drawn the line. They've grabbed her car, so she now has no assets. Unfortunately she's been forced into the beer bars and I'm sure it's all downhill from here.
I've written off the cash which I can afford to lose but desperate calls are coming thick and fast. I've said no emphatically and told her that unless she comes up with some security I can't lend her any more.
My concern is that either her or her daughter could end up fish food and I do have the option of saving her from such a fate.
One thought was to help her again but under the proviso she comes and works for me as a maid until she's cleared the debt. BUT she still needs another loan and swears she can square with me by March.
I understand that some will say 'tough, she made her bed, let her lie in it'. While some will say the money isn't important, her life is.
What would other members do?
She lost 800,000 THB at Cards!
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Randy Cornhole
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Under no circumstances would I lend her the money!! All the alarm bells are ringing in my head. I would almost certainly say you would never see your money again... 
This is an old trick. Borrow a small amount of moner once or twice and then a little bit more (as you have already stated she has). That way she builds up your confidence with her. When she feels the time is right she will/has hit you for the big one!!
I would say with almost certainty that this is the case.
Have you recently told her you are going home or away somewhere for a bit? This can sometimes trigger the big money borrow response.
If it is genuine and she fears for her life she would head up country with her kid and hide out with family or cousins etc...
Ask yourself this, she's Thai and she's in Thailand. Why go to a foreigner for help??
Because you have MONEY.
This is an old trick. Borrow a small amount of moner once or twice and then a little bit more (as you have already stated she has). That way she builds up your confidence with her. When she feels the time is right she will/has hit you for the big one!!
I would say with almost certainty that this is the case.
Have you recently told her you are going home or away somewhere for a bit? This can sometimes trigger the big money borrow response.
If it is genuine and she fears for her life she would head up country with her kid and hide out with family or cousins etc...
Ask yourself this, she's Thai and she's in Thailand. Why go to a foreigner for help??
Because you have MONEY.
Last edited by Randy Cornhole on Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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'Neither a borrower nor a lender be, is ringing in my ears.' as is 'I'm not my brother's keeper'.
I sympathize with her. These girls are like lambs to the slaughter with professionals and probably don't realize just how much of a problem they can create for themselves. Are the tables rigged in Thailand?
Would the thugs harm her so much she cannot work to repay the debt? Wouldn't they be cutting off their nose to spite their face by being too strong. Where are her family? Friends?
I think you have done your bit already and would I be right in thinking it's not just a distant relationship you had with her? Isn't prostitution likely to change her from the nice lady you knew?
I would stick to the no security, no money. That way, you are still offering to help but can recover it if she defaults. Otherwise isn't she just taking the monkey off her back and putting it onto yours?
I sympathize with her. These girls are like lambs to the slaughter with professionals and probably don't realize just how much of a problem they can create for themselves. Are the tables rigged in Thailand?
Would the thugs harm her so much she cannot work to repay the debt? Wouldn't they be cutting off their nose to spite their face by being too strong. Where are her family? Friends?
I think you have done your bit already and would I be right in thinking it's not just a distant relationship you had with her? Isn't prostitution likely to change her from the nice lady you knew?
I would stick to the no security, no money. That way, you are still offering to help but can recover it if she defaults. Otherwise isn't she just taking the monkey off her back and putting it onto yours?
"Let no one who has the slightest desire to live in peace and quietness be tempted, under any circumstances, to enter upon the chivalrous task of trying to correct a popular error."---William Thoms
Yes. I'm sure she's genuine. My Thai partner, who is astute, loaned her 15k of the 40k, so if I'm a mug, she is too. Obviously we are in a different ballgame when the sums involved are so high and I certainly don't intend clearing her debt for her.
Yes, MrP, we have been friends for 2 years. Obviously that friendship is unlikely to survive.
She's asked for another $20k to keep the mafia away for a few days but then of course she will come back. I think she's exhausted all other possibilities in her mind which is why I was angling for ideas. My biggest fear is for her daughter. Perhaps escaping somewhere is the only option left.
Yes, MrP, we have been friends for 2 years. Obviously that friendship is unlikely to survive.
She's asked for another $20k to keep the mafia away for a few days but then of course she will come back. I think she's exhausted all other possibilities in her mind which is why I was angling for ideas. My biggest fear is for her daughter. Perhaps escaping somewhere is the only option left.
In my experience, there are no loans to Thais, only gifts, so if you "loan" one money, write it off as a gift or you will probably be disappointed. My wife or myself have loaned (amounts from 1k baht to 20k baht) money to many Thai friends both here and in the United States. Trying to remember and count, I'd say probably twenty or more loans, only one of which was ever paid back and that was because this lady owned a business and we saw her spending a lot of money around town, so my wife badgered her until she paid us back.
We are soft hearted and when we have a Thai friend in financial distress, we try to help if we can, but even though they call it a loan, I call it a gift and I think that is the best way to not become bitter about it. Just forget it and if you do get anything back, consider yourself lucky.
We are soft hearted and when we have a Thai friend in financial distress, we try to help if we can, but even though they call it a loan, I call it a gift and I think that is the best way to not become bitter about it. Just forget it and if you do get anything back, consider yourself lucky.
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sandman67
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sorry mate Im with Randy here.....this sounds way too close to the old "Long Firm" scam.
If she was in serious strife she could do a run and hide with family out in the sticks....ive seen it happen in HH with a lot less dosh involved, and to accumulate a 800K debt would take weeks at cards.....and she wouldnt have been given that big a line of credit by anyone, mafia or not.
story just doesnt make sense....so id say no....offer all the help you can for her to do a runner and see if she accepts.
If she was in serious strife she could do a run and hide with family out in the sticks....ive seen it happen in HH with a lot less dosh involved, and to accumulate a 800K debt would take weeks at cards.....and she wouldnt have been given that big a line of credit by anyone, mafia or not.
story just doesnt make sense....so id say no....offer all the help you can for her to do a runner and see if she accepts.
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
I’ve known of two cases where Thai women have managed to get into depts of that magnitude by gambling, one in Thailand and one in Europe, so her story may not be impossible.
However, as others have pointed out, if she was in any serious danger she would just disappear, so unless you are some kind of philantropist who enjoys giving away large sums of money, I would say no.
Incidentall, my partner knew of one Thai lady who got through two houses, a bar and a nice car by gambling on cock fighting, so I would be a bit wary of knowing anyone who was that bad at gambling. (Just to clarify, thats cock fighting with birds, before we get any rude suggestions!)
However, as others have pointed out, if she was in any serious danger she would just disappear, so unless you are some kind of philantropist who enjoys giving away large sums of money, I would say no.
Incidentall, my partner knew of one Thai lady who got through two houses, a bar and a nice car by gambling on cock fighting, so I would be a bit wary of knowing anyone who was that bad at gambling. (Just to clarify, thats cock fighting with birds, before we get any rude suggestions!)
Calvin,
As a recovering compulsive gambler (last bet 13/10/1988 ) I feel I am qualified to offer a little advice.
The worst possible thing you can do is lend more money. This will only add to her problems.
Try and get her to admit she has a serious problem and the only way to improve the situation is to stop gambling.
Offer to help with food or a shoulder to lean on but NO MONEY.
Also keep in mind that compulsive gamblers are very good liars and will possibly steal from you or anyone who is not careful.
Good luck to you and I wish you (and her) success.
I have some literature if you think it will help.
As a recovering compulsive gambler (last bet 13/10/1988 ) I feel I am qualified to offer a little advice.
The worst possible thing you can do is lend more money. This will only add to her problems.
Try and get her to admit she has a serious problem and the only way to improve the situation is to stop gambling.
Offer to help with food or a shoulder to lean on but NO MONEY.
Also keep in mind that compulsive gamblers are very good liars and will possibly steal from you or anyone who is not careful.
Good luck to you and I wish you (and her) success.
I have some literature if you think it will help.
You only live once.
The gambling could well be real as it is not an uncommon scenario .Hence the fact it is illegal here .I will not offer advice as I know nobody concerned but will simply state that anyone who pays some of the owed money to those hired to collect the debt will be almost certainly be expected and harassed to pay it all . Take care .
Crazy 88
Crazy 88
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I can only offer a second to HHFarang, never give a loan to any friend that you can't afford to lose, been there, done that.
A Thai ladyfriend's husband had run up a considerable debt of 600,000bt. He was a drunk and non worker. She divorced him but since the bad guys were also threatening her and their son, went to the gamblers. She said it took her 4 hours of wais and promises, but they gave her a year to pay off the debt, and interest. She did (in the bars).
As mentioned before dead people have problems paying back money, but if the mafia types figure no possibilities, who knows.
All that being said, I wouldn't lend the money either.
A Thai ladyfriend's husband had run up a considerable debt of 600,000bt. He was a drunk and non worker. She divorced him but since the bad guys were also threatening her and their son, went to the gamblers. She said it took her 4 hours of wais and promises, but they gave her a year to pay off the debt, and interest. She did (in the bars).
As mentioned before dead people have problems paying back money, but if the mafia types figure no possibilities, who knows.
All that being said, I wouldn't lend the money either.
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bluezephyr
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Calvin
Youve been given some good advice, I read this, This morning (uk time) and its been in my head all day, Im suprised no-ones been a bit more direct in saying 800,000Baht are you F'in serious!!
Im a sucker and got screwed for a bit of money last year, Not huge amounts to some but alot of hours work and overtime worth to me.
I'd hate to be in your predicament as i know what its like to be given stories that pull on your heart strings.
As Randy pointed out, Theres a whole load villages to get lost in. And i doubt Any money from Beer bars is going to make a difference on that sort of debt.
I didnt listen to the advice i was given, I wish i had.
Good luck and just be bloody careful.
Youve been given some good advice, I read this, This morning (uk time) and its been in my head all day, Im suprised no-ones been a bit more direct in saying 800,000Baht are you F'in serious!!
Im a sucker and got screwed for a bit of money last year, Not huge amounts to some but alot of hours work and overtime worth to me.
I'd hate to be in your predicament as i know what its like to be given stories that pull on your heart strings.
As Randy pointed out, Theres a whole load villages to get lost in. And i doubt Any money from Beer bars is going to make a difference on that sort of debt.
I didnt listen to the advice i was given, I wish i had.
Good luck and just be bloody careful.
Mai ow Khup, Pom Ki Neow :)
Have to say that I'm with Randy, HHF and SM67 here. Just doesn't sound right and smells of a scam. 800k is very high, not sure if you could get in so deep so quick. Also, is it just to to taken as true at her word? Hhhmmmm, asking a lot. A 'shed load' of questions to be asked here really.
Think you are doing the right thing by saying "No security, no money" and that's the deal when it's Thai to Thai. When I hear about this sort of stuff it always reminds me of "A fool and his money are easily seperated".
Generally I never 'lend' any money to anyone. Sometimes I 'give' it away in small amounts to my wife. HHf is quite right about 'gifts'.
I remember an old Vietnam Veteran saying to me when I first got here when I was 28, which was, "Only spend/give/make known that you have at your disposal, that what you can afford to walk into the street and throw in the air and smile about it".
Not saying he's right in every situation but I always remember it as it helped me get my perspectives right when I got here.
Think you are doing the right thing by saying "No security, no money" and that's the deal when it's Thai to Thai. When I hear about this sort of stuff it always reminds me of "A fool and his money are easily seperated".
Generally I never 'lend' any money to anyone. Sometimes I 'give' it away in small amounts to my wife. HHf is quite right about 'gifts'.
I remember an old Vietnam Veteran saying to me when I first got here when I was 28, which was, "Only spend/give/make known that you have at your disposal, that what you can afford to walk into the street and throw in the air and smile about it".
Not saying he's right in every situation but I always remember it as it helped me get my perspectives right when I got here.
Resolve dissolves in alcohol