Pre-nups

[uncle tom]

Most expats I meet in Thailand have one thing in common - they would be an awful lot better off if they had never got married...

Having avoided matrimony (to date..) and having got myself to the financial position where I have little need to work, the notion of 'settling down' has more appeal.

Getting a Thai GF back to the UK without marrying her seems near impossible - lawfully, at any rate.

Marrying her leaves one open to the possibility of losing half of one's hard-earned, if she decides to waltz off.

The legal position of pre-nups in the UK is still a bit vague - they are not fully enforceable, but it seems an ex-spouse has an uphill struggle if he or she wants more than was agreed.

What's the score in Thailand?

Tom

[niggle]

Its cheaper to buy a pint of milk than it is to keep a cow

[uncle tom]

Its cheaper to buy a pint of milk than it is to keep a cow

Unfortunately, nice girls don't see things that way..

Tom

[JimmyGreaves]

Its cheaper to buy a pint of milk than it is to keep a cow

Unfortunately, nice girls don't see things that way..

Tom

There all nice until they've woven their web!

[Frost]

Hehe, i like that. Absolutely same opinion here.

I am 35, been in thailand for the last 6years and never thought (yet) of getting married...

[Super Joe]

The legal position of pre-nups in the UK is still a bit vague - they are not fully enforceable, but it seems an ex-spouse has an uphill struggle if he or she wants more than was agreed.
What's the score in Thailand?

Tom, they are legally recognised and specifically covered in Thai Law (Civil & Commercial Codes). They must be 'entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration' otherwise they are void. You often hear people say 'they're not worth the paper they're written on', haven't a clue how true that is as most of us Farang's here actually know squat.

Importantly one thing that they will do for you, and every Farang should do prior to marriage, is 'legally record' your 'Personal Property' (Sin Suan Tua) which WILL NOT under Thai law, Section 1470, form part of the 'Martial Property' (Sin Som Ros) which is split 50/50 under normal divorce circumstances.
With your 'Personal Property' though the norm is the following: Farang brings over his 'personal property' of say 100,000 GBP, starts a business and/or buys a house (ie: the actual building on the land), upon divorce the wife would be entitled to 50% of the increase of that asset over and above the initial 100k. Example: If the initial 100k is worth 500k (400k increase) at time of divorce, wife is entitled to 200k. Not sure if a pre-nup can actually, when it comes to a judgement, prevent that or not!?!?


Below is a write-up from a Thai Lawyer, obviously they're trying to promote them, I have no idea how accurate the info is ofcourse:
Prenuptial Agreements in Thailand
Thai Prenuptial Agreements are authorized by law in Thailand. Prenuptial or Antenupitial Agreements must conform to the Civil & Commercial Code in Thailand. It is important that you seek counsel from a registered lawyer, attorney or solicitor familiar with the laws in your home country and in Thailand before preparing a prenuptial agreement with a Thai national fiance. Our law firm specializes in family law (marriage, prenuptial agreements, and divorce) in Thailand with our well experience lawyers, attorneys and solicitors who can draft prenuptial agreements tailored to your specific needs.

History in Thailand
Prenuptial agreements have been around for thousands of years. The practice dates back to the ancient Egyptians. Many years ago, the parents of the bride and groom negotiated the agreement on the new couple’s behalf. In the present time, engaged couples do their own negotiation, however family members often provide feedback to the new couple who will enter into marriage.

Definition of Prenuptial Agreement
A Prenuptial Agreement is a written contract created by two people before they are married. A prenup typically lists all of the property each person owns (as well as any debts) and specifies what each person's property rights will be after the marriage.
In some jurisdictions, a prenuptial agreement is known as an "antenuptial agreement", or in today’s terminology, as a "premarital agreement." The word "agreement" is sometimes substituted for "contract" as in "prenuptial contract."

Who Should Make a Prenuptial Agreement?
Prenuptial Agreements are not recognized by law in United Kingdom. However, some weight "may" be given by the court; it will nevertheless take the content of the agreement into account when reaching its decision. It is strongly recommended for British and UK Citizens to draft a prenuptial agreement for prior to marriage to Thai fiance.

Benefits of Prenuptial Agreement
1. Protect your Separate Property
Frequently, disputes arise over how marital property should be allocated. Prenuptial agreements can be used to provide assurance that a couple's property will be disposed of according to their intentions. Through such an agreement, parties can designate ownership of property in the event of divorce, separation, or death of either spouse. The prenuptial agreement may provide for certain property to be transferred from one spouse to the other to create separate or joint property rights. These dispositions, and the contingencies on which they would occur, can be set forth in an organized and thoughtful manner in a properly drafted prenuptial agreement.
2. Protecting Business Assets
In cases where a business is owned by a small number of parties (e.g., a closely held corporation or a partnership), it is not uncommon for the owners to want to prevent a spouse from obtaining voting rights or claims against the business. In such cases, the owners can enter into an agreement that requires each, in the event that they marry, to execute a prenuptial agreement that provides for the prospective spouse to waive all rights to the owner-spouse's interest in the business in the event of divorce or death. The business associates may also wish to enter into a buy-sell agreement, where upon the death of a shareholder or partner, the remaining owners are required to purchase the decedent's interest in the business for a specified amount over a specified period.
3. Protection from other spouses debts
If one spouse incurs substantial debts before marriage, there may be a desire to protect the assets of the new spouse from the creditors of the debtor spouse. This can be accomplished in a prenuptial agreement by having the debtor spouse waive any claims to the new spouse's assets, except in the event of divorce or death.
4. Provide for Children
A prenuptial agreement can designate responsibility to provide support for children of a previous marriage, as well as children of the upcoming marriage. This may be especially important in instances where one spouse intends to give up a career as part of the marriage arrangement. The agreement can also cover issues concerning custody of all children.
5. Pass on Family Property
If one spouse has substantial interest in a family business, it is often the desire of that spouse, as well as the family members engaged in the business activity, to keep ownership within bloodlines. This could also be the case with family heirlooms and other assets of the family. It is not uncommon for parents and grandparents in wealthy families to be concerned about protecting family assets from the claims of an unintended heir, such as a decedent’s spouse. A prenuptial agreement can be written to provide that such assets are immune from claims by the new spouse.
6. Reduce Litigation Costs
Prenuptial agreements can eliminate litigation costs associated with contesting the will of a deceased spouse. They can be used to facilitate the divorce process and to provide assurance that the property will be distributed the couple's wishes. Individuals who have experienced a lengthy, messy divorce realize that a considerable amount of wealth can be lost during a legal battle, including legal fees and the fees charged by appraisers and expert witnesses.

Prenuptial Agreement Summary
Today, with the incidence of divorce on the rise and an increasing number of divorced persons remarrying, prenuptial agreements may become the rule, rather than the exception. Prenuptial agreements are becoming increasingly acceptable by jurisdictions whose courts are crowded with divorce cases and are looking for ways to reduce litigation.


SJ

[Super Joe]

Another thing, the only farangs that lose their 'hard earned' to Thai wives/girlfriends are the one's that choose to through their own incompetence. Maybe a false sense of security because they are so much cleverererer than Thais
Thai law is nearly 100 years old (I think) and based upon many European countries' laws like France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Spain, Belgium, Holland (I think). Most of us think Thai law was written a couple of years back by Thaksin just to tuck up us walking ATM machines.

Thai law gives us more protection than we know what to do with, far more than in our home countries, Christ we don't even have to pay a penny towards any children we produce, if we were that way inclined. Farangs only lose money because they:
1) Put land and house in their partners name without the protection of a lease, usufruct, right of habitation etc. Or because they did not put it in A.N.Other Thais name with above rights, or because they did not put it in a Limited Company (out of wife's reach but into Government's ), or because they didn't rent.
2) They didn't register a pre-nup.
3) They didn't register their 'Personal Property' upon marriage.
4) They didn't do a will.
5) Puts car, motorbike, boat, jet-ski, skateboard, incl. knee pads, in wife's name.
No Farang needs lose a single penny of what was originally his, only has to share 50/50 anything he gains while being here.

SJ

[buksida]

Another thing, the only farangs that lose their 'hard earned' to Thai wives/girlfriends are the one's that choose to through their own incompetence. Maybe a false sense of security because they are so much cleverererer than Thais

Statement of the day Mr SJ!

[Governor]

You are so correct SJ though I don't necessarily thinks it's case of farangs believing they are cleverer than Thais, more a case of not wanting to listen to sound advice from other ex-pats and not accepting what is staring you in the face.

I certainly wished I listened to advice like yours before I became involved with my crook of a wife.

[Norseman]

I certainly wished I listened to advice like yours before I became involved with my crook of a wife.

Another way to say it is that there are too many temptations here which can turn a lovely wife into a nightmare of resistance.
(Not talking about you Governor).

[uncle tom]

SJ,

That's great information - thanks

Tom

[dtyolmn]

Would appreciate the cost of getting a pre-nep. My gf is pressuring me about getting one so we can get married. I won't do it without a pre-nep. I've got to much at stake.

[margaretcarnes]

Given that farangs can own nothing in Thailand anyway a pre-nup seems a bit pointless.
Back home it's probably a different matter - but look at it this way Uncle T -

Bar fines - say 2000 plus for a full night now? Say 750,000 Bt a year including gold.
Resident cook/housekeeper - 40 hours a week at minimum wage = 12,168 sterling per annum, plus double time for bank holidays.
Gardening duties extra - 150 sterling per annum for half a day a week, with 2 weeks off over Christmas.
Window cleaning - 120 sterling per annum for an average monthly clean.
Child care duties and entertaining relatives as required - extra for stress.

Need I go on? But if this is too much of a female rant, the alternative to a pre-nup is simple. Stash savings in a secret account. Sign ownership of any property back home over to a trusted family member (preferably one who would inherit anyway) and make a damn good will, with an executor who looks as much like a bouncer as possible.
Tell the intended that you rent - and bequeth her enough for the flight back to LOS.

[Takiap]

Spot on MC, and BTW, I'm a guy, but I'm one which certainly agrees with you on this.

[Takiap]

Most expats I meet in Thailand have one thing in common - they would be an awful lot better off if they had never got married...

Most people you meet anywhere would tell you the exact same thing, the the question is, do you want to remain single of not? Don't forget, there are plenty of women who would be better off as well, even if not from a financial point of view....