Another crackdown on border runners

[Super Joe]

all the criminals spoil it for the rest of us that would like to immerse ourselves genuinely in another culture and broaden our minds in a non sneaky way, or even change countries but have not been involved in criminal activities.

'Criminals'!?!? You seem unaware what your average border runner is. You seem to think they are cunning criminals that have evaded their own country only then to expose themselves to the authorities on a fortnightly basis.
And how is it spoiling it for you, do you do these border runs too ?

The problem is that there are simply too many of these nefarius losers that f*** it up for the rest of us and I think it is unreasonable that I am treated the same as a criminal that has fled their home country to hide.

Get the right visa then and you won't be affected.

I bet 50% of the farang that live full time here are criminals and would be arrested on return to their home countries.

Bizzare comment.. Sorry, couldn't think of a more appropriate word, in a rush supposed to have left the house half hour a go.

SJ

Edited: Name calling.

[Spitfire]

No need for name calling SJ, your posts are better than that, mine was just opinion. Are you sure that you have not just become too used too it all of this in your line of profession?

Sorry mate, but if you think most of the average farang here are some king of Julie Andrews/shinning light kind of type then you are on drugs.

Just a thought.

Yes Lomuamart, "some" may be be contensious but I think you are being unusually damning here. I could get a lot of milage out of this one.

[PeteC]

Lomu explained that SF with his 'edits'.

I think we're getting lost in words here rather than meanings. Things are getting twisted.

SJ states some accurate things as does SF.

It's disheartening for anyone who tow's the line to see others getting away with something that's wrong, and with a smile on their face. Double smack when what they do hurts us.

Until the government is stable and confident concerning who and what a farang is as an individual, we'll all be subject to the same discriminatory screening.

All we can do is keep talking, posting, publishing until some government is in place long enough to pay attention once again.

There was one PM, Khun Anand who was PM twice, and also ambassador to the UN. He also wrote the 1997 constitution. He loosened up the regs concerning farangs. He understands. Thaksin did/does also, but he wrongly inserted 'wealth' as a farang criteria and undid what Anand did. Pete

[lomuamart]

spitfire,
We will probably not see eye-to-eye on this, but I agree with SJ when he says that most idiots won't want to cross a border every 15/30 days. They'll get a longer term visa and extensions to them.
If I was in charge of Thai Imm, I'd ask for regular police checks on all annual extensions. Probably not practical but...
The border runners generally have nothing to hide.
Sorry if you felt I was damning, but I've heard the argument that you espouse a million times and it just dosn't make sense to me.
Please don't take it personally

[buksida]

Buksi, what do you mean by there not being a category for that, ie: support of family ? There is isn't there, the farang needs to show an income of 40k a month or 400k in bank, or has that changed ?

Yes, all easy if you have income from OVERSEAS, not so if you live and work here and have done for ten years. If that dries up you have to attempt to send baht out and bring it back. Most other 'civilized' countries try to make an effort with immigrants that have integrated, paid tax for years, opened businesses, and proved themselves. Not this one it seems.

Yes, but they do care that you are wealthy. Their 'retirement visa' (should read investment visa) starts at 35 years old.

At least you have the option of showing money regardless of age. Not one that you have in Thailand. Its 'old and rich' or 'young and f'ck off'. Pretty much no in between

Nice to see you're still wearing those rose tinted ones though.

[Wanderlust]

I think the basic difference between Super Joe and spitfire (other than the name calling) is that SJ lives and works within, and accepts the terms set by the Thais, while although I am sure sf abides by them, he wants to see a bit more logic and thinking involved in both the rules themselves and the application of them. Probably SJ does as well but resists the urge to say anything as it would come across as insulting to our hosts, which is a fair position to take. The frustrating thing is that most of us can see that a few small changes to the way things are done here would improve things for both the Thais and the foreigners. However, the very act of suggesting these, or even talking about the existing set up in a critical way probably means the desired changes are less likely to happen. We just have to wait and hope, but on the issue of the 15 day changes, I don't really see that as being either a bad change nor an effort to do anything than persuade people to get proper visas; after all anyone can get a tourist visa and it would work out a hell of a lot cheaper than 3 border runs. If someone doesn't want to get a visa that is currently free I believe, then you have to wonder why.

[Super Joe]

Apologies Spitfire for the offensive remark earlier (I've gone back and edited it out), was slightly struck by your bizarre claims.
Perhaps you could now clarify those claims below:

1) "I bet 50% of the farang that live full time here are criminals and would be arrested on return to their home countries." - Question: What information exactly are you basing this claim on ?

2) "Sorry mate, but if you think most of the average farang here are some king of Julie Andrews/shinning light kind of type then you are on drugs." Question: Where did your assumption come from that as I do not think 50% of Farangs are criminals, then I might think they are the complete opposite, ie: "Julie Andrews/shinning light kind" ? Did you just make that up for effect ?

3) "The problem is that there are simply too many of these nefarius losers that f*** it up for the rest of us and I think it is unreasonable that I am treated the same as a criminal that has fled their home country to hide" - Question: How is this affecting you ? Are you also doing these border runs too ?, thought you were teaching for a living ?

Cheers mate,

SJ

[Super Joe]

Buksi, what do you mean by there not being a category for that, ie: support of family ? There is isn't there, the farang needs to show an income of 40k a month or 400k in bank, or has that changed ?

Yes, all easy if you have income from OVERSEAS, not so if you live and work here and have done for ten years. If that dries up you have to attempt to send baht out and bring it back.

Thought there was a visa covering this. A foreigner earning 40k per month or having 400k in a Thai Bank is not much of a demand from the authorities considering it is to support an actual family and all that entails, far less than the financial requirements for a retiree who may be on his lonesome. Another example of Thailand catering for average earners and not targeting the wealthy.

At least you have the option of showing money regardless of age. Not one you have in Thailand. Its 'old and rich' or 'young and f'ck off'. Pretty much
no in between

No, not 'show money', must be invested in a Time-Deposit Philippine Bank or converted into a property purchase, you can not withdraw any of the invested amount otherwise your visa is cancelled. If you want to cancel your visa and retrieve your investment, you have to attend an interview and await return, possibly up to a month. Whereas Thailand provides the in-between's with a Non-Imm 'O' visa for just 150 USD, no show or investment money, a damn sight better deal than the 50,000 USD Philippine option, unless your wealthy.

Nice to see you're still wearing those rose tinted ones

Likewise when it comes to the Philippines, if Thailand were demanding 50,000 USD plus where you have to attend an interview to get it back, there'd be uproar, shouts of theives and corruption with accusations Thailand was courting the wealthy and f***** over those on minimal funds. Difference is Thailand DOES provide for the latter, even if under 50, and even goes a step further than the Phils. by NOT restricting it to a minimum age of 35 year old.

Thailand's visa option's and low prices pee all over it's neighbouring countries.

SJ

[buksida]

We'll have to agree to disagree with this issue as we always do. There is NO visa class for someone under 50 in Thailand that does not have an overseas income. The 'family income' O visa (my only option should work dry up) was scrapped last year in favour of money coming in again.

The only way to stay is get a work permit (which is getting increasingly more difficult) or a student visa. Opening your own business is also not economically viable in this current climate as you'd be spending most of your profit (if you made any) on staying legal, I know a few that do this and its not fun.

The issue has never been the COST of the visas, I agree they are cheap, it is the requirements, which are constantly changing and going up. All you read about on this and other forums are clampdowns and genuine people having grief with immigration for trying to do the right thing.

At least in the Phils you have the OPTION of getting a retirement visa if you have money and are under 50. Things are also slowly getting better there, the expats I spoke to have more optimism, not so here I'm afraid.

Anyway of the border run clampdown. It may not be such a bad thing as people should be getting the right visa but really, in these times when tourism is at an all time low, how many countries are making things harder for tourists to travel there?

Only Thailand!

[Spitfire]

OK SJ, no worries man, some was off topic but just got dragged into it and had a bit of a .

1. "I bet 50% of the farang that live full time here are criminals and would be arrested on return to their home countries." - Question: What information exactly are you basing this claim on ?

From the people I have met all over Thailand, having lived in the south, northeast, and around Bangkok, not to mention on visa runs over the last 8-9 years before getting a work permit. Can't quote a news source as some may want, I bet there are some, but I am speaking from personal experience. How many bar owners that I've met, or dare I say it, property developers that opened a business because there is a drugs conviction/violent assault etc waiting at home for them. How many guys running from the CSA? How many from fraud back in the UK or wherever they come from? How many theives/gangsters and generally unsavory people that are unable to return or have been sent to spread their criminal activity? I have met all of these and more.

I could got on for days about this sort of stuff. Maybe 50% is high but it may well reach 35-40%. Look no further than the popular places to go here. Perhaps the right, or at least more diplomatic, phrase would have been "a disproportionate amount of".

2. Sorry dude, being sarcastic for purposes of emphasis regarding the point.

3. "The problem is that there are simply too many of these nefarius losers that f*** it up for the rest of us and I think it is unreasonable that I am treated the same as a criminal that has fled their home country to hide" - Question: How is this affecting you ? Are you also doing these border runs too ?, thought you were teaching for a living ?

That one, was a little off topic and was drifting into general observations as the thread had strayed, had nothing to do with border runs, and no, I don't do them as you are correct about me teaching. It does affect me though in a general way because these questionable blaggeres/criminals that are running from something, abuse the system in such a breathtaking way in order to "hide" from past misdeeds rather than 'face the music', so then everyone, including people such as myself who wish to just progress in a mainstream way are treated in the same way because a whole load of trash wants to run around being a tosser.

So many people forget that this country is the Costa del Crime of Asia, look no further that the beach holiday resorts of Pattaya/Phukhet/Samui/Phangna/Hua Hin/Jomtien etc and then stretch it to Bangkok, you cound even go as far as Nong Khai on the border with Laos.

However, we are going to get a very diverse set of opinions on this subject as can be seen from the replies here. Posters opinions will vary depending upon their sitution and reasons/circumstances for being here and there also may be those that have a conflict of interests in replying or propergate a certain viewpoint as this is a public forum. The truth on these sort of subject is often uncomfortable, unwelcome and disturbing for everyone other than the perps. The Thais will also not admit to it even though Thailand is one of the top places to hide in the world for anyone that has a compromised past.

I think I've said enough on this thread.

[Name Taken]

Anyway of the border run clampdown. It may not be such a bad thing as people should be getting the right visa but really, in these times when tourism is at an all time low, how many countries are making things harder for tourists to travel there?

Only Thailand!

That's Thai logic, i guess.
I think when Thailand finally gets rid of all the border runners they will then more than likely get rid of all the foreigners living here in Thailand on retirement visas and Thai spouse visas, etc.

[Super Joe]

There is NO visa class for someone under 50 in Thailand that does not have an overseas income.

Anyone confused by this debate, the Royal Thai Consulate in your own country will legally issue you a Non-Immigrant 'O', that gives you 15 months, which you then you renew in a neighbouring country. No income proof is requirement. I've got about 6 in my passport if anyone wants one scanned and posted up, don't forget to go for the 'M' Multiple entry one.

The 'family income' O visa (my only option should work dry up) was scrapped last year in favour of money coming in again.

The 'Support of Family' Visa 'O' was never scrapped. The criteria changed from a family income to the income, 40k per month, coming from the Foreign spouse only. They also added an additional option to assist the foreign spouse if he does not have this income by allowing 400k show money in a Thai Bank.

The only way to stay is get a work permit (which is getting increasingly more difficult) or a student visa. Opening your own business is also not economically viable in this current climate as you'd be spending most of your profit (if you made any) on staying legal, I know a few that do this and its not fun.

Not really sure why you're saying this mate, we know the way to stay is how the majority do it at the moment, simply obtain the Non-Imm 'O' talked about above, from your home country.

Cheers,

SJ

[buksida]

Family income means you could earn money inside Thailand - that was scrapped in favour of bringing money in from overseas - there is a difference.

Your ideas are a little wayward mate - the idea of permanently residing in a country generally means you don't have to go back to the one you came from every year.



As said we're never going to agree so lets leave it at that.

[Super Joe]

Family income means you could earn money inside Thailand - that was scrapped in favour of bringing money in from overseas - there is a difference.

Agree it was scrapped, I even said so!?!? But that is a change in the criteria to obtain a visa and NOT the scrapping of a visa, as you suggested. With the new regs it was not neccessarily scrapped in favour of bringing in money from overseas, they added an alternative option of showing money already in a Thai bank.

Your ideas are a little wayward mate - the idea of permanently residing in a country generally means you don't have to go back to the one you came from every year.

I never mentioned 'permanently residing' merely letting the under 50's know how to stay here for longer periods (15 months). And you do not have to "go back to the one you came from every year", you renew in a neighbouring country, as I think we both know.

As said we're never going to agree so lets leave it at that.

Ok

SJ

[Khundon1975]

[quote="johnnyk"]Not wanting to be rude, but I've never understood the anxiety about putting 800K baht in a Thai bank in order to live in Thailand.
Its money to live on.
Most countries worth living in require something in the way of guaranteed funds so they don't have to foot the bill for non-citizens.
Yes, bank interest is lost.
But these days how much are banks paying on 800K baht/$25K/15K sterling?
2% maybe.

johnnyk

Thats ok mate it's not rude.
Anyone who is leaving money in a British bank is only getting 0.5% interest, if you allow for inflation they are losing money on the deal.

I'm not anxious about putting 800K in a Thai bank, we have several times that there already, put there in 2001/2002, so that my wife can continue to purchase land and property there, whilst she is in UK.
I would not consider doing that now, with the exchange rate.

My point about leaving money in Thai banks at no interest, is that I can earn over 10% interest by investing in stocks/shares property etc in UK /Europe at the moment, not able to do that in Thailand.
Why let it lose money in a Thai bank when it can be earning money which can then be spent in Thailand.