i think this sounds like the most realistic report i have read
Thai killers 'will avoid death'
Two men sentenced to death for murdering and raping a British backpacker in Thailand will have their sentence reduced to life imprisonment, a legal expert has predicted.
Mark Stephens, a barrister with law firm Finers, Stephens, Innocent, believes the Thai judiciary acted out of a "cultural feeling of national disgrace" over the killing of 21-year-old Katherine Horton.
Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, face lethal injection for attacking Miss Horton, who disappeared while holidaying in Koh Samui with her best friend Ruth Adams on New Year's Day. Her body was later found floating in the sea.
After the sentencing, the Reading University student's family thanked Thai police for quickly catching the culprits and helping them "seek an end to the uncertainties of this tragedy".
The Foreign Office confirmed that the men have 30 days to submit an appeal - but if they do not, an appeal will automatically be submitted by the court on their behalf.
No death sentence has been carried out in Thailand since 2003, although more than 1,000 people are on death row, according to Amnesty International.
Mr Stephens, who studied the Thai legal system for the International Bar Association, believes today's sentence will be reduced to life imprisonment at the Court of Appeal, as is customary for guilty pleas to murder.
He said: "It usually takes three to six months for a case to come before the Court of Appeal but in this instance it would be at the shorter end of the scale.
"I think part of the reason why they were sentenced to death is because the judge knew that (the sentence would get reduced).
"There is a cultural feeling of national disgrace over this incident and, as a consequence, I think they wanted to send a message to the Thai community and the international community that they are prepared to deal quickly with offenders of this kind."
© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2006, All Rights Reserved.
sentenced to death
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DawnHRD
- Legend
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Have read the posts with interest. I was particularly interested in Kevars comment & one of Mike's replies. I was beginning to think that I was the only one feeling very uneasy about the speed with which this has all happened. First they have no leads, then the PM demands action - next day they have the culprits & signed confessions. 2 weeks later they've been tried & sentenced to death.
Knowing the Thai respect for (& sometimes fear of) authority & presuming (from their occupation) that these guys are not exactly well educated or influential, is there any possibility that this is not quite as it has been presented? Carrying on that thread, are these guys (whether guilty or not) aware of their rights? Possibility of an appeal was mentioned - I wonder if they know they have the right to an appeal?
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these aren't the murderers. I have no idea - it just worries me how quick & cut & dried this all was. Maybe, like Kevars, I'm too used to UK where killers (like Yorkshire Ripper) avoid capture for years.
Oh, and rape isn't a sexual thing - rape is solely about power. Which makes sense in these cases
Knowing the Thai respect for (& sometimes fear of) authority & presuming (from their occupation) that these guys are not exactly well educated or influential, is there any possibility that this is not quite as it has been presented? Carrying on that thread, are these guys (whether guilty or not) aware of their rights? Possibility of an appeal was mentioned - I wonder if they know they have the right to an appeal?
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these aren't the murderers. I have no idea - it just worries me how quick & cut & dried this all was. Maybe, like Kevars, I'm too used to UK where killers (like Yorkshire Ripper) avoid capture for years.
Oh, and rape isn't a sexual thing - rape is solely about power. Which makes sense in these cases
"The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
tuktukmike wrote:
[Now thats the funny thing, These two poor fishermen who were pennyless and lived on the beach had been drinking heavily, Ok got that part. Were watching porno videos??? on the beach.
Maybe i have misunderstood the reports somewhere along the line but they must have had one hell of an extension cable]
Mike, appreciate the sarcasm, please allow me to apply my own .....
The report I referred to (please see below) said they had been watching porno earlier in the day on their boat. Let me ellaborate:
a) Fishermen tend to have boats.
b) Boats tend to have power sources that generate electricity without the need for long cables.
c) The combination of the above two do make this report possible in my book.
I watched a great film on a flight over from the UK a while back, one hell of an extension lead that would have been!!
I notice in your rush to take the mick, you omitted to respond to my point about the contradiction in your earlier posts ?
Burger
Thai Fishermen Sentenced To Death In Murder, Rape Of British Tourist
January 18, 2006 8:00 a.m. EST
Surat Thani, Thailand (AHN) – Two Thai fisherman were sentenced to execution Wednesday in the rape and murder of a British tourist, which prompted the prime minister to demand the maximum penalty.
Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, pleaded guilty to the New Year’s Day slaying of Katherine Horton, a 21-year-old student from Wales who was attacked as she strolled along a beach at an island resort and was speaking to her mother over her cell phone.
Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra made a public appeal for the killers to receive the stiffest punishment possible, saying the murder hurt the country’s image and could damage the tourist industry.
Police say the men had been drinking and watching porno movies on their boat before going on their attack. Horton was beaten with a stick, raped and her body thrown into the sea.
In cases where defendants plead guilty, Thai courts usually reduce death sentences to life in prison.
[Now thats the funny thing, These two poor fishermen who were pennyless and lived on the beach had been drinking heavily, Ok got that part. Were watching porno videos??? on the beach.
Maybe i have misunderstood the reports somewhere along the line but they must have had one hell of an extension cable]
Mike, appreciate the sarcasm, please allow me to apply my own .....
The report I referred to (please see below) said they had been watching porno earlier in the day on their boat. Let me ellaborate:
a) Fishermen tend to have boats.
b) Boats tend to have power sources that generate electricity without the need for long cables.
c) The combination of the above two do make this report possible in my book.
I watched a great film on a flight over from the UK a while back, one hell of an extension lead that would have been!!
I notice in your rush to take the mick, you omitted to respond to my point about the contradiction in your earlier posts ?
Burger
Thai Fishermen Sentenced To Death In Murder, Rape Of British Tourist
January 18, 2006 8:00 a.m. EST
Surat Thani, Thailand (AHN) – Two Thai fisherman were sentenced to execution Wednesday in the rape and murder of a British tourist, which prompted the prime minister to demand the maximum penalty.
Bualoi Posit, 23, and Wichai Somkhaoyai, 24, pleaded guilty to the New Year’s Day slaying of Katherine Horton, a 21-year-old student from Wales who was attacked as she strolled along a beach at an island resort and was speaking to her mother over her cell phone.
Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra made a public appeal for the killers to receive the stiffest punishment possible, saying the murder hurt the country’s image and could damage the tourist industry.
Police say the men had been drinking and watching porno movies on their boat before going on their attack. Horton was beaten with a stick, raped and her body thrown into the sea.
In cases where defendants plead guilty, Thai courts usually reduce death sentences to life in prison.
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tuktukmike
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- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:02 am
Burger wrote,
We can't have it both ways Mike, either we are 'luring their girls away' or a 'high percentage of these girls already have Thai boyfriends'.
If it's the former then I can understand Thai guys getting the hump, if it's the latter then the foreigners who pay the bar girls, are actually lining the pockets of these Thai men that are supposedly upset with the foreigners ?
I read that the two Thai fishermen had been drinking heavily and watching pornos, this gives me the indication of what their motivation was.
Maybe you should read the post from the start again.
I was quoting word for word from the BKK post.
My point though remains the same.
So these two guys were at sea or sitting on their boat on the beach, which one?.
If at sea they may have had power but i really doubt that they had the voltage for a dvd plus TV at sea with a fishing boat owned by two pennyless fisherman. in fact i doubt they even owned a DVD.
If they were on the beach then i doubt they would leave the engine running even if they could afford to. of course you can buy 12volt TVs and DVDs but these come at a price.
I dont really think you can be serious when you compare a modern Jetliner with a thai fishing boat, unless of course you flew Aeroflot.
As i have tried to say so many times it now bores me,
PLEASE READ AGAIN, BKK Post article.
I dont quite get your point on the luring issue.
Although some will have boyfriends do you not think they will also feel insecure.
And anyway this point is just a side issue as the article was published in order to stimulate thinking on this subject, and in many ways just by reading the posts that is exactly what it has done.
Throwaways,ie kicked out by a partner or spouse.
Had to chukle over the throwaway remark, if this is true then Hua Hin is bursting at the seams with both Thai and Farang throwaways.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I notice in your rush to take the mick, you omitted to respond to my point about the contradiction in your earlier posts ?
And what contradiction would that be?. Prey Tell.
Mike.
We can't have it both ways Mike, either we are 'luring their girls away' or a 'high percentage of these girls already have Thai boyfriends'.
If it's the former then I can understand Thai guys getting the hump, if it's the latter then the foreigners who pay the bar girls, are actually lining the pockets of these Thai men that are supposedly upset with the foreigners ?
I read that the two Thai fishermen had been drinking heavily and watching pornos, this gives me the indication of what their motivation was.
Maybe you should read the post from the start again.
I was quoting word for word from the BKK post.
My point though remains the same.
So these two guys were at sea or sitting on their boat on the beach, which one?.
If at sea they may have had power but i really doubt that they had the voltage for a dvd plus TV at sea with a fishing boat owned by two pennyless fisherman. in fact i doubt they even owned a DVD.
If they were on the beach then i doubt they would leave the engine running even if they could afford to. of course you can buy 12volt TVs and DVDs but these come at a price.
I dont really think you can be serious when you compare a modern Jetliner with a thai fishing boat, unless of course you flew Aeroflot.
As i have tried to say so many times it now bores me,
PLEASE READ AGAIN, BKK Post article.
I dont quite get your point on the luring issue.
Although some will have boyfriends do you not think they will also feel insecure.
And anyway this point is just a side issue as the article was published in order to stimulate thinking on this subject, and in many ways just by reading the posts that is exactly what it has done.
Throwaways,ie kicked out by a partner or spouse.
Had to chukle over the throwaway remark, if this is true then Hua Hin is bursting at the seams with both Thai and Farang throwaways.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I notice in your rush to take the mick, you omitted to respond to my point about the contradiction in your earlier posts ?
And what contradiction would that be?. Prey Tell.
Mike.
I take every national of very nationality on the level. I don't give credit for wealth - or the reverse.
It's a strategy that for me has paid big dividends commercially.
I don't accept the arguments of those who would apologise for these two - on the great vat of humanity there lies a very thin scum that pollutes and corrupts the rest of society.
It is the duty of good government to deal with these people - quickly, efficiently, permanently!
It's a strategy that for me has paid big dividends commercially.
I don't accept the arguments of those who would apologise for these two - on the great vat of humanity there lies a very thin scum that pollutes and corrupts the rest of society.
It is the duty of good government to deal with these people - quickly, efficiently, permanently!
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly...
Mike,
I merely referred to the POLICE REPORT regarding them watching porn. You were the one who mentioned the beach, you were the one who brought up 'long extension leads' etc.
Now I have pointed out for you that the POLICE REPORT said they were on their boat, you are changing tact (in an attempt to clear some of that egg off your face) and instead of talking about 'long extension leads' you are talking about 'lack of voltage to run a DVD'. Either you know very little about electricity or you are being a bit naive. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if a fishing boat's battery can start it's engines then it can probably manage a little ol' portable TV.
Regarding the BKK post report, you quoted it I understand that, but you gave it credence by posting it and saying it was worth us on here thinking about that scenario. As you asked us to think about it, I did, then I replied to it.
'Contradiction', that would be ...... either we are 'luring their girls away' or a 'high percentage of these girls already have Thai boyfriends'.
'Throwaways' you now say "Had to chukle over the throwaway remark", you said in an earlier post a day or so ago "As for throwaways, maybe" ..... more contradictions Mike ??
I merely referred to the POLICE REPORT regarding them watching porn. You were the one who mentioned the beach, you were the one who brought up 'long extension leads' etc.
Now I have pointed out for you that the POLICE REPORT said they were on their boat, you are changing tact (in an attempt to clear some of that egg off your face) and instead of talking about 'long extension leads' you are talking about 'lack of voltage to run a DVD'. Either you know very little about electricity or you are being a bit naive. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if a fishing boat's battery can start it's engines then it can probably manage a little ol' portable TV.
Regarding the BKK post report, you quoted it I understand that, but you gave it credence by posting it and saying it was worth us on here thinking about that scenario. As you asked us to think about it, I did, then I replied to it.
'Contradiction', that would be ...... either we are 'luring their girls away' or a 'high percentage of these girls already have Thai boyfriends'.
'Throwaways' you now say "Had to chukle over the throwaway remark", you said in an earlier post a day or so ago "As for throwaways, maybe" ..... more contradictions Mike ??
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tuktukmike
- Guru
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- Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:02 am
What are you on.
I fully understand that a battery will start a boat engine, 12 or 24 volt.
The cost of these sets are not cheap here or at home.
I gave no Credence to the report whatsoever, My reply was and i quote.
Makes you think.
2. My opinion was not expressed in the first post, just as i said makes you think.
This is what good press reports and comment are there for, thought provoking.
but you gave it credence by posting it
Really, so if we post any article this must of course be our own personal views.
and saying it was worth us on here thinking about that scenario. As you asked us to think about it,
reflect, give it some thought, this does not mean again my views thrust upon others and in no way reflects my opinion.
Luring girls away, BKK Post.
Girls With Thai boyfriends, My post. where is the contradiction.
Your Throwaway remark still makes no sense, Throwaways maybe.
And i had a chuckle over this remark, Contradiction??.
I dont really understand where you are coming from.
As for the Egg, Enjoying it with Bacon in a sandwich.
Mike.
I fully understand that a battery will start a boat engine, 12 or 24 volt.
The cost of these sets are not cheap here or at home.
I gave no Credence to the report whatsoever, My reply was and i quote.
Makes you think.
2. My opinion was not expressed in the first post, just as i said makes you think.
This is what good press reports and comment are there for, thought provoking.
but you gave it credence by posting it
Really, so if we post any article this must of course be our own personal views.
and saying it was worth us on here thinking about that scenario. As you asked us to think about it,
reflect, give it some thought, this does not mean again my views thrust upon others and in no way reflects my opinion.
Luring girls away, BKK Post.
Girls With Thai boyfriends, My post. where is the contradiction.
Your Throwaway remark still makes no sense, Throwaways maybe.
And i had a chuckle over this remark, Contradiction??.
I dont really understand where you are coming from.
As for the Egg, Enjoying it with Bacon in a sandwich.
Mike.
Mike,
The police boarded the boat and confirmed they were watching porn on it. I know you may not like this fact as it made your 'long extension lead' comment seem a bit silly. But either take it up with the police, or deal with it and move on.
Re: the BKK report, you asked us to think about it and put a 'question mark'. I did that, pointing out the contradiction to another post, again deal with it and move on.
I never said it was 'your own personal view' anywhere, did I ? I said their was a contradiction in your posts, not your personal views. Please read the posts properly before diving in feet first.
You seem to be getting upset at everything I say, have I offended you in anyway at all ?
Burger
The police boarded the boat and confirmed they were watching porn on it. I know you may not like this fact as it made your 'long extension lead' comment seem a bit silly. But either take it up with the police, or deal with it and move on.
Re: the BKK report, you asked us to think about it and put a 'question mark'. I did that, pointing out the contradiction to another post, again deal with it and move on.
I never said it was 'your own personal view' anywhere, did I ? I said their was a contradiction in your posts, not your personal views. Please read the posts properly before diving in feet first.
You seem to be getting upset at everything I say, have I offended you in anyway at all ?
Burger
Last edited by Burger on Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Press Association, Weds 25th Jan 2006.
Two Thai fishermen sentenced to death for the rape and murder of the British backpacker Katherine Horton are appealing for the sentences to be reduced.
Bualoi Posit, 23, and 24-year-old Wichai Somkhaoyai face lethal injection for killing Ms Horton, who disappeared while holidaying in Koh Samui with her friend Ruth Adams on New Year's Day. Her body was found later floating in the sea.
Bualoi and Wichai told a Thai court they should be given credit for their co-operation with the police and their guilty pleas despite a lack of witnesses.
Their lawyer, Phrompachara Namuang, said their appeal - automatic under Thai law - had been submitted on the grounds that the death penalty was "too harsh".
DNA tests had linked the two to the attack but there were no witnesses to the crime, he said.
"The defendents were fully co-operative (with authorities), which helped to expidite the judicial process," he added. "They should be given leniency for this."
A Royal Thai Police spokesman said the judge had also been asked to consider Ms Horton's family's views on the death penalty.
Family members have insisted they have never publically expressed an opinion on the sentences, and said they did not want to be involved in the criminal and political processes of another country.
Bualoi and Wichai were found guilty on January 18 of murdering Ms Horton, a 21-year-old student. She disappeared as she walked along a beach while speaking to her mother in Cardiff on her mobile phone.
Bualoi told police he had grabbed Ms Horton's arms, while Wichai admitted repeatedly hitting her on the head with a stick before the pair raped her and threw her body into the sea. The case was fast-tracked through the court system, and eight prosecution witnesses - but no defence witnesses - were heard.
Thai courts usually reduce such sentences to life imprisonment or less in cases in which the defendents plead guilty.
However, the Thai Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, made an unusual public appeal for the killers to receive the "hardest punishment" possible, saying the killing had hurt the country's image and could damage its tourism industry.
The appeal, which usually takes around a year, could take less than a month to complete, Thai police said.
No death sentence has been carried out in Thailand since 2003, although more than 1,000 people are on death row, according to Amnesty International.[/b]
Two Thai fishermen sentenced to death for the rape and murder of the British backpacker Katherine Horton are appealing for the sentences to be reduced.
Bualoi Posit, 23, and 24-year-old Wichai Somkhaoyai face lethal injection for killing Ms Horton, who disappeared while holidaying in Koh Samui with her friend Ruth Adams on New Year's Day. Her body was found later floating in the sea.
Bualoi and Wichai told a Thai court they should be given credit for their co-operation with the police and their guilty pleas despite a lack of witnesses.
Their lawyer, Phrompachara Namuang, said their appeal - automatic under Thai law - had been submitted on the grounds that the death penalty was "too harsh".
DNA tests had linked the two to the attack but there were no witnesses to the crime, he said.
"The defendents were fully co-operative (with authorities), which helped to expidite the judicial process," he added. "They should be given leniency for this."
A Royal Thai Police spokesman said the judge had also been asked to consider Ms Horton's family's views on the death penalty.
Family members have insisted they have never publically expressed an opinion on the sentences, and said they did not want to be involved in the criminal and political processes of another country.
Bualoi and Wichai were found guilty on January 18 of murdering Ms Horton, a 21-year-old student. She disappeared as she walked along a beach while speaking to her mother in Cardiff on her mobile phone.
Bualoi told police he had grabbed Ms Horton's arms, while Wichai admitted repeatedly hitting her on the head with a stick before the pair raped her and threw her body into the sea. The case was fast-tracked through the court system, and eight prosecution witnesses - but no defence witnesses - were heard.
Thai courts usually reduce such sentences to life imprisonment or less in cases in which the defendents plead guilty.
However, the Thai Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, made an unusual public appeal for the killers to receive the "hardest punishment" possible, saying the killing had hurt the country's image and could damage its tourism industry.
The appeal, which usually takes around a year, could take less than a month to complete, Thai police said.
No death sentence has been carried out in Thailand since 2003, although more than 1,000 people are on death row, according to Amnesty International.[/b]
Has there been any background on the two fishermens' families in the Thai media? There has been nothing in the UK. Just wondering because a few people have put it to me that the whole prosecution of these two is an elaborate scam designed to save the face of the Thai tourist industry - i.e. the families get a massive pay-off for these blokes admitting to the crime and getting the death penalty, which then gets reduced to life on appeal. After a few years inside, when the publicity has long since died down, they are quietly set free (or not). I know it sounds bizarre but stranger things have happened.
Just to be clear for any legal implications of the above statement - this is not my own view and I am not suggesting that it is true.
Just to be clear for any legal implications of the above statement - this is not my own view and I am not suggesting that it is true.
I've found very little in the english thai-press about their background.
Maybe someone else can find more than me Jaime.
The judges were convinced by the DNA evidence presented by the prosecution. The DNA of sperm taken from the victim's body matched DNA in blood samples from the two men. They confessed because of the strong evidence.Despite a plea from Horton's mother, the judges did not commute the death sentence to imprisonment, given the gravity of the crime.
After the verdict was read, Wichai's face paled but Bualoi kept smiling. Bualoi, from Ubon Ratchathani, said he deserved the sentence. Wichai's mother, Peeyoh Uma, 50, said she did not believe her son could have murdered anyone. She insisted he was kind and well-liked.
Maybe someone else can find more than me Jaime.
The judges were convinced by the DNA evidence presented by the prosecution. The DNA of sperm taken from the victim's body matched DNA in blood samples from the two men. They confessed because of the strong evidence.Despite a plea from Horton's mother, the judges did not commute the death sentence to imprisonment, given the gravity of the crime.
After the verdict was read, Wichai's face paled but Bualoi kept smiling. Bualoi, from Ubon Ratchathani, said he deserved the sentence. Wichai's mother, Peeyoh Uma, 50, said she did not believe her son could have murdered anyone. She insisted he was kind and well-liked.
I intend to live forever - so far so good.
In a case like this, surely the victims family and solicitor get an independant forensic expert to examine the clothing, check the DNA from it and then confirm it matches the accused's DNA ??
You couldn't just take the authorities word for it, for the reasons Jaime said.
Does anyone know whether the family has, or are allowed to, have their own forensic tests carried out ?
Burger
You couldn't just take the authorities word for it, for the reasons Jaime said.
Does anyone know whether the family has, or are allowed to, have their own forensic tests carried out ?
Burger
Although not about their family as such, there was some info posted on another forum board for Thailand about Witchai and his background.
The poster's brother had known him for years on Koh Phangan or Koh Tao. Apparantly he was a well liked individual who worked hard. The inference was that over the years, he was poisoned by what he saw of the farangs visiting the island. He ended up a mumbling wreck, yabaed out of his head most of the time. He was also known to deal in illegal substances.
It was a long report, intertwining the events on Koh Samui with the overall decline of these islands.
It was submitted to the British press who proceeded to twist it out of all context, which p***** the brother off no end.
Not necessarily my views, but an interesting insight from a westerner who knew him.
The poster's brother had known him for years on Koh Phangan or Koh Tao. Apparantly he was a well liked individual who worked hard. The inference was that over the years, he was poisoned by what he saw of the farangs visiting the island. He ended up a mumbling wreck, yabaed out of his head most of the time. He was also known to deal in illegal substances.
It was a long report, intertwining the events on Koh Samui with the overall decline of these islands.
It was submitted to the British press who proceeded to twist it out of all context, which p***** the brother off no end.
Not necessarily my views, but an interesting insight from a westerner who knew him.