I think it is possible to get a education visa, which allows you to stay in the country to study Thai or whatever else you would like. Read somewhere you can enroll in a Thai language class for 25,000 baht per year and can do this for 10 years. No other money requirements to meet.
Worth checking out.
Visa rules hurt married people
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There is a good thread about this here:norm wrote:I think it is possible to get a education visa, which allows you to stay in the country to study Thai or whatever else you would like. Read somewhere you can enroll in a Thai language class for 25,000 baht per year and can do this for 10 years. No other money requirements to meet.
Worth checking out.
http://www.huahinafterdark.com/forum/st ... 11266.html
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead!
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Yes, the oldest daughter married an American, either Naval or Air Force officer back in the 70's and was stripped of her titles and standing. Most of which have now been reinstated to some degree. They're now divorced. Her son was killed in the Tsunami. PeteJimmyGreaves wrote:Didn't one or two members of the royals marry outside?
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Lomu i understand the point you are making but lets face facts the Thai govt does NOT want any out of work penniless farangs here in particular under 50s
And as i am NOT a hypocrite i agree with them i was very voiciferously ANTI when all the immigrants were piling into the UK and marriages of convenience were the order of the day
The rules and the Thai govt intentions are out there in plain view
my view is simple dont bitch if the individual has screwed up or been irresponsible ie dont get married unless you can meet the requirements either here or back in their own country.Dont expect to live here if you dont have the money to support yourself
To Quote one member to me when i asked what would happen if the exchange rate fell and i couldnt meet the 800,000
Close the door on my way out was his answer
(and that after 27 years continuous marriage to 2 Thais Taking care and educating 2 families and living without working and bringing millions of baht into this country for 10 years)
so please dont expect me to feel sorry for these people
just one other small point this guy expects us to feel sorry for him and his wife
I feel sorry for the Thai guys wife and kids who has lost HIS job because this falang has just up and arbitrarily decided he wants to live here
Because its the Thai guys Country NOT the falangs
And as i am NOT a hypocrite i agree with them i was very voiciferously ANTI when all the immigrants were piling into the UK and marriages of convenience were the order of the day
The rules and the Thai govt intentions are out there in plain view
my view is simple dont bitch if the individual has screwed up or been irresponsible ie dont get married unless you can meet the requirements either here or back in their own country.Dont expect to live here if you dont have the money to support yourself
To Quote one member to me when i asked what would happen if the exchange rate fell and i couldnt meet the 800,000
Close the door on my way out was his answer
(and that after 27 years continuous marriage to 2 Thais Taking care and educating 2 families and living without working and bringing millions of baht into this country for 10 years)
so please dont expect me to feel sorry for these people
just one other small point this guy expects us to feel sorry for him and his wife
I feel sorry for the Thai guys wife and kids who has lost HIS job because this falang has just up and arbitrarily decided he wants to live here
Because its the Thai guys Country NOT the falangs
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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Yes, Ubolratana married (American) Peter Jensen.prcscct wrote:Yes, the oldest daughter married an American, either Naval or Air Force officer back in the 70's and was stripped of her titles and standing. Most of which have now been reinstated to some degree. They're now divorced. Her son was killed in the Tsunami. PeteJimmyGreaves wrote:Didn't one or two members of the royals marry outside?
Sarge,
I wasn't saying that penniless long-stayers here should get some sympathy. Simply that there are visa advantages in getting married to a Thai.
As a result of that, those who are under 50 and maybe loaded with dosh might well look at a marriage of convenience to get annual extensions. If said person is penniless, I doubt he'd be able to pay the Thai woman off or even afford 3 monthly Non O runs to Penang (or elsewhere). He certainly isn't going to qualify for the extension, financially.
That, to me, is a marriage of convenience. "Marry me and I'll give you some money. I only want the certificate. You don't have to live with me".
I wasn't saying that penniless long-stayers here should get some sympathy. Simply that there are visa advantages in getting married to a Thai.
As a result of that, those who are under 50 and maybe loaded with dosh might well look at a marriage of convenience to get annual extensions. If said person is penniless, I doubt he'd be able to pay the Thai woman off or even afford 3 monthly Non O runs to Penang (or elsewhere). He certainly isn't going to qualify for the extension, financially.
That, to me, is a marriage of convenience. "Marry me and I'll give you some money. I only want the certificate. You don't have to live with me".
Lomu i am sorry for the way i worded it i wasnt saying you were
The point I was making was as this forum always points out DO THE HOMEWORK
Maybe i am just getting old but i for one am getting tired of 10 minute wonders who are either too stupid to bother doing the homework or too stupid to understand it or as in most of the cases i have seen too arrogant to take the rules for what they are THE LAW
Over the 20+ years have been involved with this country the rules have been very loosely administered and yes they are starting to screw it down to being stricter about how the immigration laws are applied
BUT and its a big but it is mainly in response to pisstakers and the arrogant from above
And guess who the net sufferers are thats right prats like me who takes care and provides for Thas in their family doesnt work and take jobs from Thais and uses his money to give employment TO Thais in other words a 100% asset to Thailand
I have said it before on other threads and topics to me this mythical under 50 and loaded seems a myth i only know of one or maybe 2 in 27 years that even vaguely fit that categorie and the prat refered to in the OP certainly doesnt
The point I was making was as this forum always points out DO THE HOMEWORK
Maybe i am just getting old but i for one am getting tired of 10 minute wonders who are either too stupid to bother doing the homework or too stupid to understand it or as in most of the cases i have seen too arrogant to take the rules for what they are THE LAW
Over the 20+ years have been involved with this country the rules have been very loosely administered and yes they are starting to screw it down to being stricter about how the immigration laws are applied
BUT and its a big but it is mainly in response to pisstakers and the arrogant from above
And guess who the net sufferers are thats right prats like me who takes care and provides for Thas in their family doesnt work and take jobs from Thais and uses his money to give employment TO Thais in other words a 100% asset to Thailand
I have said it before on other threads and topics to me this mythical under 50 and loaded seems a myth i only know of one or maybe 2 in 27 years that even vaguely fit that categorie and the prat refered to in the OP certainly doesnt
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Many often just form a company, get a WP and convert to a Non-Imm 'B' they can then stay here as long as they want without ever having to leave the country on visa runs or annual extension. It costs about an extra 18,000 Baht a month to run (cheaper than a wifelomuamart wrote:As a result of that, those who are under 50 and maybe loaded with dosh might well look at a marriage of convenience to get annual extensions.
) or can cost nothing as farang is bored and actually does some business through the company. When they're 50 or married they can close the company if they want.Agree, many people wouldn't consider leaving their job to emigrate abroad and raise a family until they had the bank show money and then some saved up, some work an extra 5 years for that, some leave early and take the risk.sargeant wrote:my view is simple don't bitch if the individual has screwed up or been irresponsible, ie: don't get married unless you can meet the requirements. Don't expect to live here if you dont have the money to support yourself.
What was the plan if the main 40k/month wage earner couldn't work any longer, or if they raise it to 60k overnight when they do the catch-up-with-inflation thing every so many years, or you have an unexpected baby at 50 years old, or the exchange rates crash, or someone gets a serious illness requiring tons of hospital fees, or your house falls down
People like this whopper who wrote about his tale of woe in a national newspaper fail to acknowledge that the requirements for extending based on marriage/family support have actually been made easier over the past 5 years by Immigration not increasing the required amount in line with Thai inflation rates.
If they really 'had it in' for us foreigners (yawwwnnn) and Thai wives who marry foreigners they would have justifiably made those increases and the financial criteria would be 500k show money in bank and 50k a month income. The monthly income reverting back to being solely from the foreigner is reportedly the result of some foreigners abusing the use of Thai spouses income.
SJ
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Wanderlust
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SJ,
While I broadly agree with your last post, I think the main real issue here is how and why the immigration rules are changed and interpreted so often, and if the last change, which removed 'Family Income' was done because of some foreigners abusing the system (do you know this for certain?) then why did they not just deal with those individuals by denying them their extensions rather than changing the rules again? We all know that immigration officers are allowed discretion and freely interpret the law as they see fit, so why not in those cases if it is so clear they were unhappy enough about the abuses to change the law?
The other question I would like to ask is what actual difference does it make to Thailand if a foreigner is living here courtesy of his wife's income? There is no welfare payouts for foreigners, and no laws stating that the Thai government has to pick up the tab for foreigners who fall on hard times, or find themselves in need of medical treatment etc etc. If there were such benefits, like there are in the UK for some foreigners, then I could understand the immigration policy but as it stands I don't, not just for foreigners married to Thais but for most of their long term visas. I could understand if police checks or similar were needed for marriage visas, but they are not. The income requirement for extensions, while it hasn't increased with inflation since the last increase, is as the letter writer in the OP says, considerably higher (about 5 times) than the average Thai income, so index linking is not really relevant; in addition the last increase about 4/5 years ago doubled the requirement, so I think that safely took care of any inflation link! Finally the point made by a number of posters about rights that are normally extended to the married foreigner in other countries which make it easier for them to stay, live and work to provide for their family not being granted here (to men at least) is probably the strongest argument to level accusations of both xenophobia and sexism at the Thai system.
I agree that we have to live and work within the system in place but that does not mean we shouldn't point out its inequities and failings, and it really does suggest that the Thai authorities 'have it in' for us, with no solid reason for it otherwise. I would actually like to hear someone like yourself explain the reasons for the rules/laws they have in place on these issues, without having to resort to 'if you don't like it don't live here' type comments.
While I broadly agree with your last post, I think the main real issue here is how and why the immigration rules are changed and interpreted so often, and if the last change, which removed 'Family Income' was done because of some foreigners abusing the system (do you know this for certain?) then why did they not just deal with those individuals by denying them their extensions rather than changing the rules again? We all know that immigration officers are allowed discretion and freely interpret the law as they see fit, so why not in those cases if it is so clear they were unhappy enough about the abuses to change the law?
The other question I would like to ask is what actual difference does it make to Thailand if a foreigner is living here courtesy of his wife's income? There is no welfare payouts for foreigners, and no laws stating that the Thai government has to pick up the tab for foreigners who fall on hard times, or find themselves in need of medical treatment etc etc. If there were such benefits, like there are in the UK for some foreigners, then I could understand the immigration policy but as it stands I don't, not just for foreigners married to Thais but for most of their long term visas. I could understand if police checks or similar were needed for marriage visas, but they are not. The income requirement for extensions, while it hasn't increased with inflation since the last increase, is as the letter writer in the OP says, considerably higher (about 5 times) than the average Thai income, so index linking is not really relevant; in addition the last increase about 4/5 years ago doubled the requirement, so I think that safely took care of any inflation link! Finally the point made by a number of posters about rights that are normally extended to the married foreigner in other countries which make it easier for them to stay, live and work to provide for their family not being granted here (to men at least) is probably the strongest argument to level accusations of both xenophobia and sexism at the Thai system.
I agree that we have to live and work within the system in place but that does not mean we shouldn't point out its inequities and failings, and it really does suggest that the Thai authorities 'have it in' for us, with no solid reason for it otherwise. I would actually like to hear someone like yourself explain the reasons for the rules/laws they have in place on these issues, without having to resort to 'if you don't like it don't live here' type comments.
Quote WL"The other question I would like to ask is what actual difference does it make to Thailand if a foreigner is living here courtesy of his wife's income?"
A helluva lot Because they in general dont most of the men living as you describe are working illegally
As i said in a previous post we have a name for someone living of a womans earnings
In my soi only 2 Thai households have one person working and that is the Man all the others both husband and wife work they generally dont earn enough to put kids through school if both parents dont work
Yes there have been some minor changes to the imigration laws over the years but most of them have been in favour of the farang
1. there was NO marriage visa when i came here
2. The minimum retiring age was 55 when i came here
What has been happening throughout most of the time i have been here is that the rules are now being enforced by immigration as against totally ignored
Thai Xenephobia = Farang Paranoia to me i was dead against the mass immigration into my country and i was proved 100% correct everytime i drove through Southall I do not blame the Thais for not wanting/having the inteligence to NOT go down that road And i am NOT a full blown Hypocrite and say its ok here but not in my own country
Finally comparing immigration to the UK and here is just plain uninteligent
like chalk and cheese financially directly opposite
quote "but that does not mean we shouldn't point out its inequities and failings,"
In just whos eyes would that be the Sahib Memsab who knows best because of his education and wealth after all why should they accept the rules of the people who the country belongs to.Yes i would like it to be easier for people that have PROVED they are an asset to Thailand but i will wait for the Thais to decide that is in their best interest
What i wont do is bitch and moan for it to be made easier for a bunch of aresholes to come here i for one would welcome police checks in the farangs country before he comes here as a tourist even (Think about that)
If they cant meet the requirements and support themselves dont expect the Thais to do it and puuullleeeaase stop encouraging tossers to come here they should go/stay at home OOOPs i did a poopoo on the PC
A helluva lot Because they in general dont most of the men living as you describe are working illegally
As i said in a previous post we have a name for someone living of a womans earnings
In my soi only 2 Thai households have one person working and that is the Man all the others both husband and wife work they generally dont earn enough to put kids through school if both parents dont work
Yes there have been some minor changes to the imigration laws over the years but most of them have been in favour of the farang
1. there was NO marriage visa when i came here
2. The minimum retiring age was 55 when i came here
What has been happening throughout most of the time i have been here is that the rules are now being enforced by immigration as against totally ignored
Thai Xenephobia = Farang Paranoia to me i was dead against the mass immigration into my country and i was proved 100% correct everytime i drove through Southall I do not blame the Thais for not wanting/having the inteligence to NOT go down that road And i am NOT a full blown Hypocrite and say its ok here but not in my own country
Finally comparing immigration to the UK and here is just plain uninteligent
like chalk and cheese financially directly opposite
quote "but that does not mean we shouldn't point out its inequities and failings,"
In just whos eyes would that be the Sahib Memsab who knows best because of his education and wealth after all why should they accept the rules of the people who the country belongs to.Yes i would like it to be easier for people that have PROVED they are an asset to Thailand but i will wait for the Thais to decide that is in their best interest
What i wont do is bitch and moan for it to be made easier for a bunch of aresholes to come here i for one would welcome police checks in the farangs country before he comes here as a tourist even (Think about that)
If they cant meet the requirements and support themselves dont expect the Thais to do it and puuullleeeaase stop encouraging tossers to come here they should go/stay at home OOOPs i did a poopoo on the PC
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
I think everyone is going from one extreme to another.
How do you classify a farang who's genuinely married to a Thai, maybe with kids, but only gets 30K a month from his home country?
In the past, admittedly only for about a year, his wife was able to contribute towards the family income and hopefully her earnings would take the combined amount to the 40K.
People were abusing the system as SJ and I have pointed out on this thread. So, we're back to the dark ages where a Thai woman's income counts for nothing - visa wise. Why? "Family income" was the way forward and it would have been fairly easy to check further into finances if an Imm officer felt that the rules were being abused. Indeed, Imm can ask for any additional information/documents/proof that they want. Seems fairly straight forward to me. But a knee jerk reaction to a few bad apples has ruined the plot for a lot of genuine people.
I don't think this thread should stray into other fields of Imm law - ie retirement/tourism. However - and I'll stand corrected on this - I think marriage extensions have been around for longer than you or I have been in this country, Sarge.
How do you classify a farang who's genuinely married to a Thai, maybe with kids, but only gets 30K a month from his home country?
In the past, admittedly only for about a year, his wife was able to contribute towards the family income and hopefully her earnings would take the combined amount to the 40K.
People were abusing the system as SJ and I have pointed out on this thread. So, we're back to the dark ages where a Thai woman's income counts for nothing - visa wise. Why? "Family income" was the way forward and it would have been fairly easy to check further into finances if an Imm officer felt that the rules were being abused. Indeed, Imm can ask for any additional information/documents/proof that they want. Seems fairly straight forward to me. But a knee jerk reaction to a few bad apples has ruined the plot for a lot of genuine people.
I don't think this thread should stray into other fields of Imm law - ie retirement/tourism. However - and I'll stand corrected on this - I think marriage extensions have been around for longer than you or I have been in this country, Sarge.
Hi guys - i'm a bit late into this topic, and probably going to ask couple of questions that some of you might think are stupid, if they are then my apologies ahead of time. On the other hand if my questions have been dealt with before on another posting then please direct me there... (thx in advance).
1. Marriage Visa - how do i go about obtaining such an animal, presently i obtain a multiple 'O' visa from the UK each year (i'm on my 4th one at the moment and it is due to expire early next year). I've been married for 19months now, and we've been together since 2003.
Money side of things should not be an issue as my daily rate is higher than the 40/45,000baht i see mention in the posts.
2. What are the advantages of the Marriage visa? i.e. does it allow me to enter the country without having a return ticket, allow me to say Thailand is my country of residence? etc.,
1. Marriage Visa - how do i go about obtaining such an animal, presently i obtain a multiple 'O' visa from the UK each year (i'm on my 4th one at the moment and it is due to expire early next year). I've been married for 19months now, and we've been together since 2003.
Money side of things should not be an issue as my daily rate is higher than the 40/45,000baht i see mention in the posts.
2. What are the advantages of the Marriage visa? i.e. does it allow me to enter the country without having a return ticket, allow me to say Thailand is my country of residence? etc.,
sjpthsuk,
Firstly, there actually is no such thing as a marriage visa. What you're talking about is an annual extensions to a Non Immigrant O visa, on the basis of marriage.
As you already have a Non O visa, you can apply for a marriage extension to it within the last 30 days of any 90 day permitted to stay stamp you get.
The list of documents you need to show is fairly extensive and the below is not exhaustive:
You
Your passport
Your wife (she will be interviewed individually)
Marriage certificate
If you're going down the overseas income route (min 40K a month), a letter from your Embassy in BKK certifying your income
Photos of you and your wife around the house. I've heard ideally one of you both outside with a view of the house number and a couple inside especially of wardrobes etc showing both your clothes in there - I'm not joking!!
Proof of where you live
A map to the house (can be hand drawn)
Etc etc
In the first instance, you'll be given a 30 day extension/under consideration stamp and will be asked to go back then for a decision. Local offices do not decide on marriage extensions. They are all approved, or otherwise, in BKK.
If you're sucessful, you'll be permitted to stay for a year from the date of your application. There is no need to exit the country every 90 days - as you now do on your multi-entry Non O, but you must report your address to local Imm every 90 days. Repeat the process the following year - no need for another visa as you always extend from the original one even if it expired 10 years ago. If you leave the country, you need a re-entry permit to keep everything alive. Easily obtainable from local Imm for 1,000THB single entry and 3,800THB for multi.
A last point is that there is no requirement to have a return or onward ticket out of Thailand if you have a valid visa (Non O, extension to it or even tourist visa. Return/onward tickets only apply to those entering on 30 day visa exempt stamps).
Firstly, there actually is no such thing as a marriage visa. What you're talking about is an annual extensions to a Non Immigrant O visa, on the basis of marriage.
As you already have a Non O visa, you can apply for a marriage extension to it within the last 30 days of any 90 day permitted to stay stamp you get.
The list of documents you need to show is fairly extensive and the below is not exhaustive:
You
Your passport
Your wife (she will be interviewed individually)
Marriage certificate
If you're going down the overseas income route (min 40K a month), a letter from your Embassy in BKK certifying your income
Photos of you and your wife around the house. I've heard ideally one of you both outside with a view of the house number and a couple inside especially of wardrobes etc showing both your clothes in there - I'm not joking!!
Proof of where you live
A map to the house (can be hand drawn)
Etc etc
In the first instance, you'll be given a 30 day extension/under consideration stamp and will be asked to go back then for a decision. Local offices do not decide on marriage extensions. They are all approved, or otherwise, in BKK.
If you're sucessful, you'll be permitted to stay for a year from the date of your application. There is no need to exit the country every 90 days - as you now do on your multi-entry Non O, but you must report your address to local Imm every 90 days. Repeat the process the following year - no need for another visa as you always extend from the original one even if it expired 10 years ago. If you leave the country, you need a re-entry permit to keep everything alive. Easily obtainable from local Imm for 1,000THB single entry and 3,800THB for multi.
A last point is that there is no requirement to have a return or onward ticket out of Thailand if you have a valid visa (Non O, extension to it or even tourist visa. Return/onward tickets only apply to those entering on 30 day visa exempt stamps).