UK Visitor Visas

[Big Boy]

I've said several times on here that I've never failed when making a visa application to bring a Thai National to the UK. I've also advised people wanting to do the same not to use the costly touts that prowl around the Embassy (or whatever they call the application centre these days).

Last week a friend asked me to help him complete an application form to bring his sister-in-law to the UK on holiday for a few months. I know this friend well, and know that their are no ill-intentions with this request.

Well, we sat down with a VAF1b, and started to complete the form on behalf of his sister-in-law. Our wives were in the room to answer any tricky Thailand related questions.

Part 1 was fairly simple, although I still don't understand the request for travel dates, when the advice is not to book a flight until the visa has been granted; and you don't know return date because they rarely grant you the duration you request ie you are requesting a 6 month visa, but first time applicants are rarely granted more than 3.

Part 2 was easy as we had a copy of the sister-in-law's passport.

Part 3, she still lives in the family home, so not too much problem there. However, it's always a bit of a laugh translating the address from Thai to English.

Part 4 is where it starts to get difficult. Information about parents is not always clear. Also details about children can be a problem. However, these problems can usually be overcome with a quick phone call.

Part 5 - mission impossible. Most Thais don't even understand the questions!

We were now faced with a problem. The form has to be completed in English. The sister-in-law can't read or write English. Using Google Translate, I've converted the questions in to Thai and we've sent them with everything else to the sister-in-law. However, even if she can answer the questions, how does she write them in English on the application form?

My conclusion is that the UK have now designed the forms to stop UK sponsors completing them on behalf of the applicant. The only option for most people will be to engage an expensive tout. Although I've helped dozens of people in the past, I know that it will only be in exceptional circumstances in future that I can help.

It really winds me up when I see our own UK Government putting the boot in to genuine applicants, whilst at the same time I go to the local shops, and find it difficult to find an English shop assistant because the EU told us to open our borders. Even if you can overcome the completion of the form yourself (I'd still have no problem doing my own), what's it going to cost you? They keep on hitting the soft targets.

[PeteC]

Just for the curious BB, what were some of the questions in part 5? Where they things that need to be confirmed/proven by the applicant? Pete

[Big Boy]

5.10 What is your total monthly income from all sources of employment or occupation after tax?

5.11 Do you receive income from any other sources, including friends or family?

5.12 Do you have savings, property or other income (for example from stocks and shares)?

5.13 How much of your total monthly income is given to your family members and other dependants?

5.14 How much do you spend each month on living costs?

5.18 If someone other than yourself is paying for all or any part of this visit, how much money will they give you?

Please also explain why they are paying for all or part of your visit

On the face of it, the questions don't sound that bad, but you have to put it into perspective:

- How many of these people can read/write English. I'd be struggling if it were the other way around.

- Many rely on their sponsor to complete this form. Unless they are really, really close the sponsor is not going to be able to answer accurately. I'm fairly close to my brother, but I couldn't answer those questions on his behalf.

- At the interview, the applicant is going to be tested on the information provided. Any doubt whatsoever, the application will be rejected.

[PeteC]

Yeah, I can see where all that would be difficult. Harder to keep it all straight in your mind to be able to answer correctly if questioned. 5.13, 5.14, 5.18 are actually no one's business and I think if the USA they would actually be illegal to ask. May be in the UK as well if dug into. To me, they have no significance in a visa issue. All the pertinent information needed is in 10-11-12. Pete

[Governor]

Big Boy I can understand the frustration but I don't for one moment think for that UK Visas have designed the form to prevent potential sponsors helping, why would they, anyway I don't think they are that bright.

Is your friend with you in the UK? if so he could complete the application online, and save it prior to submission, and his sister in law could retrieve it and print it off in Thailand. I presume she is applying for a family visit?

I agree with you that the forms are not too easy for a Thai person to understand but they are pretty straightforward.

You will have advised him that the main hurdle to overcome it the reason to return and if his sister in law wants to go to the UK for a few months that might be difficult as the ECO will probably be thinking that she wants to join her family.

[Big Boy]

Governor,

I have been helping people with visa applications for over 20 years. However, this is the first time for a couple years that I have actually looked at the form. Yes, I have told him what they are looking for.

I agree that we could have done this online (I've never tried it that way). However, you are presuming that his sister-in-law has access to a computer, and more importantly, is computer literate. Most Thais hate bureaucracy, and combined with computer illiteracy, this could become quite traumatic. Even without the above, how does she look at an English form on-line and answer those questions? On-line or paper, the problems still exist.

I agree with you that the forms are not too easy for a Thai person to understand but they are pretty straightforward.

Yes they are straightforward if you can read them in the first place, secondly know the answer and finally, know how to write the answer in English.

At the end of the day, all they want is for their sister-in-law to visit the UK for a couple of months. Does it really need to be that hard/expensive when Europeans can wander across our borders whenever they want, take what they wany, and go home again?

[Governor]

I see where you are coming from, but I was sugesting your mate gathers all the evidence, maybe talking on the phone, and completing the form for her, that's all an agent would do.

She could print it off at an internet cafe, as you know all the one horse towns have them, she would have all the info and then she could submit it at Regent House.

I agree with your point about the hassle and the unfairness about the whole process.

[Big Boy]

She could print it off at an internet cafe, as you know all the one horse towns have them, she would have all the info and then she could submit it at Regent House.

My friend has to send all of the other supporting documentation, so he'd rather send a full pack rather than send 75% by post and tell her to get the rest from an internet cafe. Good idea though.

[margaretcarnes]

The whole thing seems ridiculously over beaurocratic IMO. Probably nothing new - but as BB points out, why this hassle for Thais when EU citizens can come and go at will?
OK - maybe not such a good example. But do Africans, Indians, Chinese, Australians etc etc have to provide all the same information?
Different situation, but I've just had to complete a lengthy questionnaire in order to have my 10 year vaccinations done again for SE Asia. Last time there were no questions asked at all - other than roughly where are you going. Certainly no form to fill in. Now they want to know the far end of a fart. Such questions as what type of accommodation you are going to stay in. Travelling alone/with friends/with tour operator. Planned length of stay - (it's ten year vaccines for gawds sake. What does it matter?)
Needless to say most of my answers were N/K, but I find it both disturbing and intrusive.

[Governor]

The whole thing seems ridiculously over beaurocratic IMO. Probably nothing new - but as BB points out, why this hassle for Thais when EU citizens can come and go at will?
OK - maybe not such a good example. But do Africans, Indians, Chinese, Australians etc etc have to provide all the same information?

I agree with you both that the system is flawed and demeaning and is subject to the whims and moods of the ECO, UK Visas will, of course deny this. An applicant will have to supply so much personal in an attempt to prove that the visit is genuine, if appropriate the relationship is genuine and the applicant will return home at the conclusion of the trip, the ECO has to make a decision pretty quickly, on the evidence supplied so it has to be on their whims. They don't always get it right, social networking sites are full of stories of families whose plans are shattered by bizarre decisions and of course the phone boxes of London are full of cards from young Thai ladies who have beaten the system and, I presume, are offering advice on visa applications.

Most, if not all, nationals of African countries require visas as do Indian and Chinese nationals, and I suspect there are similar hoops to jump through in these countries, the Aussies however do not need a visa. Of course one of the benefits of joining the EU was the freedom to travel and travel within the EU, but EU citizens can be denied entry and removed from the UK in certain circumstances.

Mags, your story about the inoculations reminds me of a tale my father used to tell me, often. He was in the army and stationed in Aldershot, they were encouraging squaddies to become blood donors, and as these fearless fighting men where maybe a tad squeamish there was, apparantly a big poster saying "The girls of Aldershot are not scared of a small prick, so nor should you be".