Influencial factors on political viewpoints in Thailand

[Lev]

Please can we keep this one on Thailand's political views and their influences and any UK/Global issues in Current Affairs.

[HHADFan]

Quite an interesting topic.

I have to select several options in the poll:

Concerns for the future (I am considering moving away)
My Thai partner and Thai family
Politics in my own country... (my own personal politics, not US politics)

I'd have to add a few things.

Reading as much as I can about Thailand, while inside and outside Thailand.
A general interest in history and politics.
Media, but to a lesser extent and perhaps in a different way than is meant in the poll.


I haven't been involved with nor lived in Thailand all that long. During my second trip here in February 2006 the front page of the paper had pictures of Sondhi at a PAD rally. "Cool", I thought, "a democracy movement against a corrupt PM." I became to some degree, a yellow shirt. Shortly before my second trip (Nov 2006 to April 2007) the 2006 coup occurred. I had started a blog to keep my friends informed during my stay here and my comment on the coup was something to effect of, "Don't worry. They have a coup every four years whether they need it or not." In preparation for my stay I had been studying Thai and reading as much Thai history, sociology and anything else as I could.

During that stay I was essentially apolitical, mostly just diving in Phuket, but I did spend some time in Isaan and did begin talking to normal Thais who didn't work in major tourist areas. I remember sitting in the restaurant of a business hotel in Khon Kaen one night watching a TV comedy show that seemed pretty offensive to Isaan folks, but the staff took it in stride. Even with my poor Thai, the stereotypes were obvious. I also spent a lot of time with the staff of a guesthouse in Phuket, and saw how hard they worked and knew what they were paid. Every member of the staff was from Isaan.

I went back home for a few months, then I moved over here in September, 2007. Shortly thereafter I had a Thai lady living in my house. I watched the elections (btw, I HATED Samak because I knew old pig-nose's history) and the subsequent PAD rallies and fall of two governments. I began to get more interested in politics after Samak resigned and began to discuss it with my girlfriend and later, with family and friends upcountry who are somewhat connected in local politics. I went back and reread as much history I could, with a different perspective. I also began to look for websites on Thai politics.

My girlfriend and friends began explaining how Thailand worked, from their perspective. I think they were a little shocked that I cared. They did their best, and luckily for me, my 'brother in law' was studying English and Law. In addition to translating words or phrases I didn't get, he made a point of introducing me to the few people around who spoke English. Discussions were not always about politics, and I met a few yellows as well as plenty of reds - there is variation even within my girlfriend's extended family. Rural Ratchaburi is a pretty laid back place, almost soporific, and so far, reds and yellows can disagree non-violently.

A big turning point for me was when Sondhi announced his idea for new politics, which was well before he announced the party. That he wanted seventy percent of parliament to be appointed made the name of his organization, People's Alliance for Democracy, seem like Orwellian doublespeak.

In early 2009, Sargent and I began meeting up for a few too many beers. Early conversations focused more on US or world politics than Thai politics, but later, as we focused on Thai politics, much of what he said simply reinforced what family and friends had been saying, and things he mentioned that I didn't know, they would often verify. Over the last three months or so, we have watched what's gone on with the morbid fascination of someone watching a slow motion train wreck. It's interesting as hell, but depressing, too.

So, you could say I'm a red shirt sympathizer, but not a lover of Thaksin. If you think those statements are contradictory, then you need to talk to more red shirts. The reds have always been a coalition. It was never a monolithic movement. There are all kinds of factions. It was knowing about the more radical factions that led Sargent and I to fear some kind of civil war or terror campaign. While there is an enormous load of junk in the 'red shirt movement', there are good things and good people, too. My hope is that the base can regroup into a real Democracy movement.

Ninety percent of the red shirts I know are not from Isaan. They're from Ratchaburi, an area not usually considered red. They aren't that poor either, more like rural middle class. They usually have high-school educations, some have been to college, some have degrees.

The main reason I don't engage in any of the arguments here is that it honestly seems a bit silly. There are too many things we cannot talk about and even more things that as a farang, it is not at all wise to talk to about. If we remove fifty percent of the relevant information and opinion, the remaining fifty percent really isn't worth much. Besides, though we may have interests and families here, we can't vote and only idiots will get involved like the Aussie and the Brit did. My main focus, regardless of my sympathies, is trying to understand the situation and know when or if I gotta get my girlfriend and myself out of here.

[PeteC]

That's really a good post HHADfan as is Spitfire's post here: http://www.huahinafterdark.com/forum/vi ... &start=135 Not the same topic but very much related.

Most everyone's posts in this thread and the News thread that started when the crises began have been very insightful, and you can see the learning that all of us are doing about this place we call home, or our second home. Pete

[sargeant]

Yes HHADfan i agree with pete what the readers also need to know is that you dont just read and swallow listen and accept, you tread your own path nobody elses.I personally need someone to say "oye arsehole thats over the top"

Knowing you and how many fully researched answers to questions and opinions i have recieved from you over our times together i know you are thorough and disbelieving until you can verify by at least two other sources and are fully prepared to let me know when i am talking bollocks.

You are also inteligent thoughtful thorough (as only a geek can be )and are only prepared to change your views subject to facts which is what we should all do

our discussions over this period has had us bouncing ideas assessment predictions of off each other niether of us being a leader and niether a follower me loud you quiet but telling but as i posted elsewhere

if two drunks could work it out !!!!!!and we did

your ability to sniff out web sites with far higher than average factual truthfull information is quite uncanny and from which i have been fortunate to have been able to learn from.

Research reading my posts hasnt stopped the snipers (dontcha just love my prose) but at least i can post with out making to many factual errors thanks to you

keep on posting bud

[buksida]

Good post HHADfan, (nice handle too), I very rarely agree with sarge however there was one thing he did say earlier in this thread that made perfect sense:

I think everyone has a different route and a different end point when discussing Thai politics because every ones circumstances are different

The rest of what he posts I would say is bollocks, but then that opinion has only been derived from the above statement and my conclusion that the second most popular option in this poll should have been the first!

[sargeant]

I think everyone has a different route and a different end point when discussing Thai politics because every ones circumstances are different and in this country and outside the information is not fully available to many farangs

Buksi selective cutting and pasting is the second lowest form of wit sarcasm is far superior

The rest of what he posts I would say is bollocks,

which is very frustrating when i am proved correct as often as i am

[cozza]

Sarge,

Because your not 100% I'm not going to add anything, dont want something to happen to you, I will miss your posts...LOL!

[HHADFan]

and my conclusion that the second most popular option in this poll should have been the first!

Just to join in the selective quoting frenzy...

I agree. Until one is truly fluent in Thai, reading and writing as well as speaking, and moving among many social circles away from the family, it is inevitable that one's viewpoint will be shaped to some degree by Thai family members.

I had quite a friendly discussion on another board and then in private with an American who lived in Thailand for many years and was a yellow shirt supporter, but now lived in America. As we discussed our experiences here, it became obvious that he was as strongly influenced by family and friends as I was. He had spent his time here among what could be considered the Ammart. I've spent most of my time with Thais among the rural middle class.

The obvious danger is allowing the family to be the only influence. Then you're just stuck in an echo chamber. If my gf were my only influence I'd be a Thaksin supporter, which I definitely am not. Regardless of which 'side' you're on, it's quite important to learn what the other side thinks, and why. That's one reason I read so much, read articles, opinion and analysis from both sides, and try to understand how other supposedly 'neutral' or 'academic' sources may be biased.

Regardless of what we think, this is not our fight. It may, however, have profound effects on our lives and those of our families and friends, so we'd best pay attention.

[cozza]

and my conclusion that the second most popular option in this poll should have been the first!

Just to join in the selective quoting frenzy...

I agree. Until one is truly fluent in Thai, reading and writing as well as speaking, and moving among many social circles away from the family, it is inevitable that one's viewpoint will be shaped to some degree by Thai family members.

I had quite a friendly discussion on another board and then in private with an American who lived in Thailand for many years and was a yellow shirt supporter, but now lived in America. As we discussed our experiences here, it became obvious that he was as strongly influenced by family and friends as I was. He had spent his time here among what could be considered the Ammart. I've spent most of my time with Thais among the rural middle class.

The obvious danger is allowing the family to be the only influence. Then you're just stuck in an echo chamber. If my gf were my only influence I'd be a Thaksin supporter, which I definitely am not. Regardless of which 'side' you're on, it's quite important to learn what the other side thinks, and why. That's one reason I read so much, read articles, opinion and analysis from both sides, and try to understand how other supposedly 'neutral' or 'academic' sources may be biased.

Regardless of what we think, this is not our fight. It may, however, have profound effects on our lives and those of our families and friends, so we'd best pay attention.

My wifes family are pretty much rural poor who have worked damn hard all their lives and are now affluent enough to send the kids (my wife & bro-inlaw) to 2 of the most expensive schools in Thailand at the time. When I say poor, I mean my mother in-law was in a refuge with my bro in-law and had nowhere to go and no money to eat any more than rice and sour pork. She worked in a pineapple factory with her husband, my father in-law. I would say they are pretty much uninterested in politics, but would be Yellow more than Red. Their lives are long stories of hardship and trying to be excepted by the higher classes.