Racism in Thailand: All Expats Should Read This!

[MrPlum]

The simple fact that injustices happen around the world doesn't excuse them

Are there ANY societies out there that are a model for the rest of the world?

The author did say... 'None of this is meant as an excuse for anything.'

How can attitudes within any society be influenced for the better, when the public see that those at the top are enriching themselves by any means, above the law and state murder is national policy? A criminal class is bound to grow out of this. At the lower stratum of society, ignorance can be countered with education. Those who refuse to sign up to the desired code need to be subject to sanction. Stoning may be horrific and draconian but that's what makes it a powerful deterrent. If you asked 1000 people if they would stone George Bush or Dick Cheney, the queue would be out the door. Carrot and stick.

Respect, tolerance, compassion, peace, truth, civility, 'loving thy neighbour'. These have all been abandoned in favour of a Hegelian Dialectic that creates 'perpetual social fever' in order to profit. They appeal to our worst instincts because it's a profitable market, just as selling crucifixes to evangelists is a profitable market. Divided nations are good for business. So are divided people. Divided from each other and divided within themselves. The media constantly validate and glorify violence, thus we are dehumanized. Wars then, are easy.

When peaceful society and respect for others becomes more profitable than bad behaviour, I guarantee you will see peace and respect.

Those who have abandoned any constraint or lowered the bar will resist any attempt at change or even exposure. No matter what country you live in. People who live in the dark, don't like the light. Neither property developer, nor pimp.

The Gospel According To MrPlum. Ch.7 vs.3

[Korkenzieher]

Stoning may be horrific and draconian but that's what makes it a powerful deterrent. If you asked 1000 people if they would stone George Bush or Dick Cheney, the queue would be out the door. Carrot and stick.

That does sound awfully like you are condoning it, because of its apparent effectiveness as a deterrent and it's appeal to the intolerant masses. Perhaps I'm misreading that...

[MrPlum]

That does sound awfully like you are condoning it, because of its apparent effectiveness as a deterrent and it's appeal to the intolerant masses. Perhaps I'm misreading that...

Why do you say 'apparent' effectiveness? Isn't it? How many stonings per year are there?

There is a huge 'doublethink' at work in western minds. On the one hand we can murder, decapitate and predator drone thousands of innocents just by calling them 'insurgents' but if a hairy arab stones an 'innocent virgin', we clamour to invade. If it was a serial killer who mutilated babies, we might be less concerned. We can pour thousands of volts through people or inject them with poison and transport them to hell-hole jails at Bagram or Tunisia to suffer all kinds of torment and this is civilized? Please tell me in what respect stoning is worse?

Actually I don't condone stoning in a peaceful society. There is no need for it. But history shows us that societies go through cycles. From peace and plenty to poverty and destruction. To restore the former, the state has invariably introduced draconian and violent punishment. Being 'hung, drawn and quartered' or tossed into medieval prisons.

That's why I asked if there was a model country out there. You can look at how they maintain order and copy it. No stones need to be flung. Just squishy tomatoes.

[Takiap]

When I read threads like this, I realize how nice it is to live with yourself as a racist. Am I a racist? That depends on what one's deems to be racist. I certainly don't judge people based on color or culture, but on actions. If you can stand in a mob and take part in a stoning, then in my books, you are a trillion miles away from being my equal. Not only would I view as not being my equal, but I would view you as a human "sub-species". Surely a "real" human would have no desire to stone anyone? And, I feel the same way about all capital punishment. To strap a person into a chair and then electrocute them to death is, in my mind, equally as barbaric as stoning, and therefor those that partake, are not my equal.

Back to topic........no matter where in the world you choose to live, you will always find something to moan about. As the author points out, that's just human nature. I see someone made mention of a Thai policeman being involved in a murder up north.........please make a point of reading international news more often. I think you see that policemen all over the world go off the rails from time to time.

I know, Thai police this and Thai police that.....................yes they do put that 200 baht in their pockets, but really, who gives a hoot. They rob you blind wherever you are, just in the west they hand the money over to the government, where it can then in turn be squandered my MP's in the form of bogus expenses. Sorry folks, but I think the street level policeman has more need for that money that one of the MP's who already get paid far to much.

Are Thais racist? Of course they are, but no worse really than any other nationality. Try walking through Aberdeen, if you're English, when Scotland and England are facing each other on a football field. Just one example.


If Thailand is too racist for you, just move elsewhere. A nice retirement home in Saudi maybe?

[Super Joe]

We can pour thousands of volts through people or inject them with poison and transport them to hell-hole jails at Bagram or Tunisia to suffer all kinds of torment and this is civilized?

A bit misrepresentitive your use of the word 'WE' MrP. The worst of our security forces may do that to, I would presume 'suspected terrorists', but I'm sure you realise 99.9999% of our society do not agree with it in the slightest. I certainly wouldn't wish it upon my sister if she was caught behind the bike shed with the wrong man.

But with stonings that's exactly what they do isn't it, nominate their teenage sister for it because of the shame of it all, caught with a lad wearing an Arsenal shirt, dishonourable yes, but a bit strong no? Surely the parents step in, oh they do... and invite their relatives and as many people in the village as they can. Parents have the honour of throwing the first stones I think. You get teenagers from the down the street there, people clap, cheer and laugh. A few hundred usually turn out, wouldn't miss it for the world.

Please tell me in what respect stoning is worse?

ooh, bit tricky this one, can I phone a friend?

SJ

[MrPlum]

A bit misrepresentitive your use of the word 'WE' MrP.

Sigh...

Obviously all of us don't walk around carrying lethal injections and electric chairs. The 'We refers to western governments who have the death penalty.

But with stonings that's exactly what they do isn't it, nominate their teenage sister for it because of the shame of it all, caught with a lad wearing an Arsenal shirt, dishonourable yes, but a bit strong no? Surely the parents step in, oh they do... and invite their relatives and as many people in the village as they can. Parents have the honour of throwing the first stones I think. You get teenagers from the down the street there, people clap, cheer and laugh. A few hundred usually turn out, wouldn't miss it for the world.

You do hate Muslims, don't you. That's your right but taking an extreme example, exaggerating it and acting as if it is the norm, is 'a bit misrepresentative'.

[STEVE G]

Obviously all of us don't walk around carrying lethal injections and electric chairs. The 'We refers to western governments who have the death penalty.

I think the US is the only one.
I'm pretty sure that my bit of the west doesn't carry out drone strikes or decapitate people either. They do have a nice military band that performs in a band-stand in the centre of town on summers evenings.
The "west" is a very large and varied place MrP.

[Takiap]

I dunno here Mr. P, because I agree with SJ, and no, I do not hate Muslims. However, anyone who condones stoning, or worse still, takes part in it, is in my eyes not my equal. In such circumstances, I would have to say I am further up the evolutionary ladder. In fact, so are both my dogs because they too do not behave in such a manner.

And, even if young women got a slap on the hand rather than stoning, that to would be wrong under certain circumstances. After all, how can any body of people decide who you can share your own body with? Yes I know, the vast majority believe in such rigid laws and regulations, but brainwashing is a wonderful thing isn't it? At the end of the day, as long as there is religion, there will be wars and atrocities. Let's face it, what right do suicide bombers have to randomly kill innocent people routinely.

I know all about the innocent lives lost in war, whether that war is justified or not, but when the military strike, their prime target is not innocent pedestrians. When suicide bombers strike, that's exactly who they are targeting.

In my home country, a certain race at want stage used to kill suspected informers by necklacing them. If you're unfamiliar with the term, do a Google. Being in the army at the time, I have witnessed this with my own two eyes, although only once the sentence had been carried out. Had our patrol vehicle ever rounded a corners in the midst of such an atrocity, I would without a doubt fired into the crowd, because once again, if you can do that to fellow human beings, in my books you're worse than a rabid dog.

Okay, now I'll get off my high horse .........phweeeeew

[MrPlum]

However, anyone who condones stoning, or worse still, takes part in it, is in my eyes not my equal.

Quite agree. I don't know anyone on here who is condoning it but it doesn't mean you can't challenge when someone is exaggerating it. Do you know how many stonings are actually carried out each year and in which countries? Is it true that Iran banned stonings in 2002 and only introduced them in 1983? I think a separate topic might be educational but I'm not going to start it!

I think the US is the only one.

Ok.

The "west" is a very large and varied place MrP.

Indeed it is. That's why it is easier for you to filter out those countries with brass bands that don't apply, than for me to list all those countries that do.

Back on topic?

[redzonerocker]

Obviously all of us don't walk around carrying lethal injections and electric chairs. The 'We refers to western governments who have the death penalty.

countries that currently use the death penalty;

Belarus · People's Republic of China · Ecuador · Egypt · India · Iran · Iraq · Israel · Japan · Malaysia · Mongolia · North Korea · Pakistan · Russia · Saudi Arabia · Singapore · South Korea · Republic of China (Taiwan) · Tonga · United States

not to many western governments there

[redzonerocker]

getting back to topic . . .

a decent enough article but nothing new or surprising

but raciszzzzzm?
unfortunately it exists just about everywhere in the world in some form or another, but it has become one of the most overused & misused words in modern societies

[Super Joe]

The 'We refers to western governments who have the death penalty.

Fails to address my point about 'WE' then, unless after execution Western governments ... "transport them to hell-hole jails at Bagram or Tunisia to suffer all kinds of torment"
Execute them, then take them to the Med, and torment them. Interesting concept MrP

That's your right but taking an extreme example, exaggerating it and acting as if it is the norm, is 'a bit misrepresentative'.

Blimey MrP, do you actually read what you wrote? yes it was SUPPOSED TO BE 'extreme', seeing as it was a direct response to your very extreme:
"We can pour thousands of volts through people or inject them with poison and transport them to hell-hole jails at Bagram or Tunisia to suffer all kinds of torment"
'Acting as it were the norm' LOL, making stuff up again MrP, I never mentioned normallity, it's not something I consider when talking to extreme conspiracy loops.

You do hate Muslims, don't you.

Well ok, yes, just for you. If you consider hatred to be relaying a real life example of a stoning in Pakistan that I read about, in response to someone else who raised the matter, then I'm guilty in your eyes. You are a bit of an authority when it comes to hatred after all, as your fellow posters have remarked in the CA section, so I will bow down to your superior knowledge

SJ

[pharvey]

getting back to topic . . .

a decent enough article but nothing new or surprising

but raciszzzzzm?
unfortunately it exists just about everywhere in the world in some form or another, but it has become one of the most overused & misused words in modern societies

With you there RZR .... And I wonder how many of those throwing the term around have actually experienced it first hand (or anything close to it).

[MrPlum]

not to many western governments there

No. I've already acknowledged it.

The point I was trying to make was that 'doublethink' applies to all those populations who are 'put to sleep', when thousands are murdered, just by calling them 'insurgents'. You can call them the 'International Community' or NATO or the 'alliance' but they are basically western nations and NOT just the U.S.

Stonings are obviously a cruel and unusual punishment. But I think it's important to separate the genuine miscarriages of justice from propaganda, designed to 'demonize the enemy'.

This Iranian site makes the same point...
http://smileiran.com/propaganda-against ... n-stoning/

[Lev]

This thread is about farangs in Thailand, please keep it on topic.

Most of what has been posted so far belongs in the Current Affairs section.