Drainage canals to be completed around Hua Hin

[Jaime]

Good news for most people but my guess is that the beach at Khao Takiab may suffer from this infrastructure project.

From Hua Hin Today website (02 May 06):

Tuck Dechapanya

Due to the vulnerability of Hua Hin to floods after heavy rain Hua Hin municipality has started to dig canals around the city as part of HM the King's royal project. The first phase of the project started in year 2003 when a canal was started from north of Klai Kang Won palace and ended around Bonkai road. However, the flood problem still occurs after heavy rain hits Hua Hin, so Khun Kittipong Sunanan, Prachuab governor, proposes that in the second phase of royal project canals will be constructed that will end at Khao Takiab village.

However, before the municipality could start the second phase of the project, it faces problems with land owners whose houses are on the land where the canal will be constructed. The municipality has issued letters of request to the owners of the effected lands or people who illegally occupy the areas affected to move. The municipality has received good co-operation from most of the people affected, however, there are still some people resisting the order to move and this is slowing down the second phase of the project. Khun Somboon Chartkitcharoen, vice mayor, contacted the State Railway of Thailand to provide temporary land in Bohfai village for violators to build their houses.

Khun Siraphan Kamolpramote, Hua Hin mayor, stated that Hua Hin will be able to drain away water quickly, even after heavy rain, when the second phase of this project is finished. This canal will end at Khao Takiab inlet where the water threatening Hua Hin will drain into the sea

[lomuamart]

Oh dear,
More people "forced" off their land to make way for the new age.
And the effluent goes exactly where?

[Jaime]

This happens in every country in the world - not only Thailand - and always will. Of course, that doesn't make it better if you are one of the unlucky few though! As per the new road story, the notice period seems rather shorter too!

[PeteC]

That's a for sure way to stop HH from turning into a Pattaya, build a mote around it...LOL!

The city pau's here have been trying to get 109 business to vacate waterfront land on Walking Street for more than 10 years now. All are encroaching and have been since day one, about 1980. However, a dozen or so are "high power" people. Therefore, nothing ever happens.

Will be interesting to see if the HH canal has some big loops in it when it's finished? Pete

[Guess]

This is good news. We all now will have to opportunity to collect samples and determine the consistency to answer all the questions posed in another current hot topic in the Foo forum.

[STEVE G]

Whilst this is obviously unfortunate for anyone who is forcibly moved from there property, I think any improvement to the drainage in the city is a good thing.
My main reason for stating this is that I am still much in the “guanoâ€

[HansMartin]

What an assinine idea!! What are the consequnces of building a drainage canal canal (moot -- I like that) around HH
1. During heavy rains all the outlying soil, silt, sand, and trash will be washed into the Gulf
2. During the initial lows flows after the dry season, all the grease, roads oils and similar organic wastes will be washed into the Gulf.
3. This would all mingle with the existing raw sewage discharges to really make an environmental mess that would require lots of time and money to clean up


Obviously something has to be done but if principles of integrated water resource management, sustanable development, and "green" building and development were adopted than a better storm water drainage solution could be developed while at the same time addressing the lack of sewage and limited water issues.

Of course this would require planning, good engineering, and developer responsibility -- all items in critically short supply

[Jaime]

What are the consequences of .......?

You should know by now that this is a question that never gets asked in the LoS, in any situation! Surely this is part of the 'charm' of the place.....?

[HansMartin]

So what is the relationship between karma and conc iquencies?

[Jaime]

So what is the relationship between karma and conc iquencies?

The relationship between consequences and karma can be represented by the following simple equation:

K = C-M

Where:
K is Karma
C is consequences
M is merit making

As can be seen, the cumulative Karmic effect of C can be mitigated by an increase in the value of M.

The value of C can be pre-determined by another simple equation:

A = C

Where:

A is actions
C is consequences

However, there is an additional factor that is little used in LoS, that makes this last equation much more complete and ultimately can have a greater effect on reducing the value of Karma. The equation is as follows:

A/(1+T) = C

Where:
A is actions
C is consequences
T is thought

The complete equation can therefore be written as:

K = (A/(1+T))-M

This equation is very little used in Thailand. Instead, the value of M is increased to compensate for the lack of T.

So, in Thailand the relationship can generally be considered to be:

K = C-M2

Although the value of C is not reduced by T, it is considered acceptable provided that the value of M is sufficiently high.

[STEVE G]

\

HansMartin wrote;
1. During heavy rains all the outlying soil, silt, sand, and trash will be washed into the Gulf.

From the press reports this canal system is for dealing with extreme event flash floods.
In these cases it is possible for huge amounts of water to fall in a short time. For an area the size of Hua Hin city you could possibly have more than one billion litres of water to deal with in a matter of hours. Surely in those events the water is going into the gulf, its just a matter of how efficiently it gets there.
No one has the capacity to treat that volume of water. I noticed that even in the richest country in the world, when New Orleans flooded huge volumes of untreated water were pumped straight into a lake which is connects to the sea.

[HansMartin]

An interest hypothesis, Jamie. Let's see if it can be taken from a qualitative theory to something more quanitative and also see if we can find a real world case example.

First we need to establish a unit of measure. $'s are the obvious units.
Consequences can be measured in $. Merit is accrued either by giving $ or time ( and we all know that time = $). Therefore K can be measured in $ (this fits nicely into the Western Christian concept of "buying one's way into heaven").

So let's look at your formula "K = A(1+T) -M". If the value of A is high, say $1m and thought equals 0, then K = $1m if merit equals 0. This is obviously impossible. K must be + (good karma) and not - (bad karma). I think you simply forgot a minus sign. The formula should be "K = -(A(1+T)-M). Now it works. If A is high and T is 0, then M must be greater than or equal to A for "good karma". This is very diificult to achieve.

Therefore, some T must be put in place, to minimize M. Now if a person or a society is unwilling to put there own T into the mix, T needs to be purchased. This is often supplied by a professional or consultant. As a professional civil engineer, I make my living selling my T to others. So now let's look at your equation again, but let's purchase $10,000 worth of T. Now you only need $100 of M to breakeven, and each additional 1$ buys good karma--an excellent rate of return.

So does this work in the real world. Steve used New Orleans as an example, and it is a good one. Certain actions were taken in the initial building of the levees and in a resposne plan. Unfortunately inadequate T was put into upgrading the levees or into response planning, and no M was added. This resulted in a huge negative karma value. This was made worse by injecting local and federal politicans into the mix, They are one of the few groups that can actully input a "-T" value.

So Jamie, I think your formula works as long the one change I suggested is made.

Using this formula and applying it to the HH moot, it is obvious that it will result in very bad karma unless adequate planning, engineering, and T is inputted; and local politicans are kept out of the mix

[Jaime]

So Jamie, I think your formula works as long the one change I suggested is made.

I thought that would tickle your fancy.

I was working on the basis that accumulation of all karma is bad, so the higher the figure the worse the outcome. However, some quick research following your post has revealed that there are numerous theological viewpoints on karma, most of which suggest that both good and bad karma is possible, as your amended equation is designed to illustrate. So I stand corrected on that point.

Whatever - it is the inclusion of T that is critical. The fact that actions have consequences does not necessarily mean that those actions are thought out first, especially so it seems in a society supposedly based on dharma and karma! But as I mentioned, the chaos is part of the charm.... isn't it?

[HansMartin]

To a point Jaime.

So I am driving through BKK with my brother-in-law, and he cuts in front of another vehicle. "'Tong Chai-- You just cut that truck off" I yelled. He responded. "That is Ok, someone will cut me off later!" Which is of course what happened. So that instant karma chaos is fun & acceptable.

But to totallly f*ck a beautiful environment for a short term gain isn't!!

And I can accept the fact that the Thai don't understand the difference; but us farang (whether we are American, Ozzies, or Euopean should know better). Obviously we don't.

As Pogo once briliantly observed 'We have met the enemy, and it is us!"

[Jaime]

So that instant karma chaos is fun & acceptable. But to totallly f*ck a beautiful environment for a short term gain isn't!!

And I can accept the fact that the Thai don't understand the difference; but us farang (whether we are American, Ozzies, or Euopean should know better). Obviously we don't.

As Pogo once briliantly observed 'We have met the enemy, and it is us!"

Time to sit down, have a glass of wine and maybe a nice piece of cheese. It's Friday after all. Then go back to my original response:

You should know by now that this is a question that never gets asked in the LoS, in any situation! Surely this is part of the 'charm' of the place.....?

Hopefully after a slurp and having re-read this comment you will understand that my rhetorical question was not intended to advocate or excuse bad infrastructure design in the name of what I mischievously referred to as 'charm.' Trust me, most of us do know better but despite the fact that this board is a good place to vent one's spleen I have learned enough about Thailand (and still learning all the time) to know that if you let these things really get to you then you will see the failures of the place around every corner and ultimately will end up loathing the place.

Now, where's my Stilton?