Thailand a lawless state..

[usual suspect]

Has this country always been poor when it comes to up-holding the law?
If a truck driver or bus driver has an accident & causes damage/death/injury he jumps out from behind the wheel and legs it!..this happens all the time..it must work for them..??

Thai drivers do not stop for red lights, be it on a rail crossing or road intersection..even if cameras are installed..does anyone get fined?
You know when you've arrived in HH..more m/cycles are heading towards you on the 'wrong side' than coming up the opposite carrigeway.

Anyone in government seems immune to the laws of this land.
Anyone in the military seems immune also.
Anyone in a posh car with BKK plates..parks in HH where they want (each weekend).
Anyone who murders/seriously injures someone is above the law so long as they can pay their way
out..check past relevant topics on here to see if the known culprits were brought to justice!

Look at Thailand's neighbours... maybe a dose of Communism keeps the people 'in-line'..??
The Chinese don't stand any s**t, what about Vietnam or Cambodia??
(We know about Myanmar & N.Korea).

So is this country getting worse for breaking every-day laws, or do these laws not really exist??

[The understudy]

Hi there usual suspect my Man!

Here's the crux of this Societal msee.
Thais are playing a game of which Laws best apply to them and thpse Laws which they see to harsch they simply ignore them.
this was my expiience on living in Thailnd for more than 10 years here in Thailand.
I'm a Thai but born and raised in Germany and overthere everyone is equal in front of the LAw and in front of the Judge.
But here in Thailand I leanred things tick a little diffrent here.

Anyone in government seems immune to the laws of this land.
They say: We made the law but we are not abide to it! Pretty sad ain't it!

Anyone in the military seems immune also.
Soem of these personnel see themselves as "Protector of the Nation" thus no Laws apply to them.

Anyone in a posh car with BKK plates..parks in HH where they want (each weekend).
because of Law enforcers (Them Police, The Posse) are not enforcing the Law or are to scared out of their minds that behind the wheel of that Merc or Beamer is one Big Hot shot which have connections to thier supervisors.

Anyone who murders/seriously injures someone is above the law so long as they can pay their way
out..check past relevant topics on here to see if the known culprits were brought to justice!
These people either have or know someone who has connections to those who are in Charge of investigations or know someone within the process to delay or even stall investigations til expiration date of this case. if delaying or even stalling don't work these are the people along with the LAwyers who are negociating a milder sentence for the accuser. Another bi-product of the Archaic petronage System in Thailand wich interpersonnel connections are more important for personel gains then know how!

Everyone wants to be above the law @ one point of the other but when it becomes the underlaying Psyche of the entire Kingdom it's a recipe for handpicking the Laws which applies to them best. ANd that creates inequallities from the Top up!

Your's the understudy!zen

PS: On that case where A Teenage DAughter of a Millitary General who had caused an Accident with a MiniVan full of People and Killing 8 including some Prof. Grade lecturers, injured more than a dozen. earlier this year. The Teenage Girl had been sent back to study in Los Angeles Area. while her father is trying with his connections to mend the damages done and trying to woe the Judges not to charges his beloved daughter with some Jail time instead working on a milder sentence!

Your's The understudy

[dozer]

The enforcement and interpretation of the laws of the land are in the hands of a very few and these individuals have created, for their own advantage, a dysfunctional society and though they are small in number they have absolute power and they will do whatever it takes to maintain the status quo.

[barrys]

Sorry for the length of this post, but things can't get much worse than this case!!!


1. Yesterday's Bangkok Post
Cover-up accusations fly over hit-and run

Published: 21/06/2011 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News

The family of a Phra Mongkut Hospital doctor who remains comatose after an apparent deliberate hit-and-run is accusing military leaders of trying to cover up the case.

Hathaiporn: Comatose after hit-and-run

The mother of Maj Hathaiporn Imwitthaya, 34, said police are dragging their feet after they were stopped by military security when trying to impound the vehicle they suspect was used in the crime.

Pannakorn Imwitthaya said the Royal Thai Armed Forces Headquarters (RTAFH) provided police with false evidence.

She said she suspects the driver was an influential army officer, who is pulling rank to stall the investigation.

Maj Hathaiporn arrived home on Set Siri road in Phaya Thai district on June 11 at 9pm to find a Nissan sedan blocking her driveway.

She assumed the car belonged to a customer of a nearby restaurant, so she jotted down the licence plate number and asked the restaurant staff to find its owner to move the car.

Maj Hathaiporn went inside the house and when she came outside, she noticed the Nissan sedan was parked over the road.

"When she was about to get into the car, I heard the sound of a blaring horn. Then a car zoomed in and hit her, sending her into the air and landing 30 metres away," Mrs Pannakorn said. The man who drove the car looked like a military officer, she said.

A witness kept a windshield wiper that apparently fell from the car as evidence. The wiper was collected from the doctor's body.

"I suspect [the hit-and-run] was a deliberate act and that the man must know he has back-up," she said.

The licence plate number has been examined and it turned out the car was registered to the RTAFH.

Pol Maj Gen Wichai Sangpraprai, chief of Metropolitan Police Division 1, denied police were dragging their feet, saying paper work took time.

The Nissan delivered to police may be a cover-up.

Police yesterday went to the RTAFH to take the suspected car away for investigation but were blocked by security officers.

Soon after, a car was delivered to the police station under the supervision of Maj Gen Pisut Pao-in, deputy comptroller general.

Mrs Pannakorn said the car was similar to the one involved in the hit-and-run and had both windscreen wipers.

She said the sedan that hit her daughter had many stickers attached to the windshield but the car delivered by the RTAFH had just one.

Pol Lt Col Chote Suwanjuneee, deputy chief of Phayathai police station, said police were not treating the case as a normal hit-and-run.

"The charge is deliberate assault with intent to kill. We have footage from surveillance cameras and evidence," he said.

An army source said the Nissan sedan was on loan to a retired army general whose son, a lieutenant colonel, was being linked to the hit-and-run.




2. Today's Bangkok Post
Officer in hit-and-run case surrenders

Published: 21/06/2011 at 04:02 PM
Online news: Local News

A colonel attached to the Royal Thai Armed Forces Headquarters (RTAFH) surrendered to Phayathai police on Tuesday for questioning over an incident in which a woman doctor at Phra Mongkut Hospital was hit by a car and seriously injured 10 days ago.

Maj Hathaiporn Imwitthaya (inset picture) and Col Saksit Phuklam

Col Saksit Phuklam, director of the Central Division of the Office of the Comptroller General, was accompanied by officers from the Judge Advocate General's Department when he surrendered.

He denied he hit Maj Hathaiporn Imwitthaya, 34, known as Mor Muk, with his car and then drove off. The incident occurred on June 11 outside Maj Hathairat's home on Sethasiri road in Phayathai district.

Col Saksit said he told the police that on the evening in question he, his wife, their daughter and a friend of the daughter went to eat at Sena Villa restaurant.

After dinner, they walked back to their car to go home and found it had been blocked by Maj Hathaiporn's car, which could not be moved because it was not neutral gear.

His daughter became angry and wrote "bad-mannered parking" on the windshield of the doctor's car.

Then Maj Hathaiporn came to her car and they had an argument, he said.

Col Saksit said he tried to call 191 police to get them to clear up the quarrel, but failed to get connected. Maj Hathairat then moved her car, he said.

As he was about to drive away, Maj Hathaiporn walked up to the vehicle and pounded on it, he said. He took a picture of her car's licence plate number.

When he again went to drive off the doctor jumped up on the engine bonnet, grabbed a windshield wiper and pulled it off, he said.

"I don't know if she had been watching too much movies when she jumped and grabbed the front of the car," the army colonel said.

Col Saksit said stopped the car abruptly and drove backward, causing Maj Hathaiporn to fall down onto the road, he said.

Col Saksit said he had no intention of hitting her.

"I was driving slowly because I was afraid of hitting her," he added.

After questioning, he was released without being charged.

Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano, the Metropolitan Police Bureau deputy chief, said Col Saksit had not been charged because investigators had to examine additional evidence and witnesses to clearly establish whether he had committed a crime.

Pol Maj-Gen Wichai Sangprapai, the Metropolitan Police Division 1 commander, said he would closely monitor the investigation of the case and would ensure justice for both sides.

Mrs Pannakorn Imwitthaya looks after her daughter, Maj Hathaiporn Imwitthaya, who was seriously injured in a hit-and-run incident on June 11, 2011. She is being treated in Phra Mongkut Hospital. (Photos POST TODAY)

Col Saksit's statement to the police differed greatly from that of Maj Hathaiporn's mother, Mrs Pannakorn.

Mrs Pannakorn told police that her daughter was hit by a Nissan sedan driven by a man who looked like a military officer as she was about to get into her car.

The impact sent Maj Hathaiporn into the air and she landed 30 metres away, she said.

The mother accused the police of dragging their feet after they were stopped by military police at the RTAFH while trying to impound the vehicle suspected to be involved in the incident.

She also accused military leaders of trying to cover up the case.

At last report, Maj Hathaiporn remained in a coma in Phra Mongkut Hospital.

Dr Boonchote Kiangkittiwan, a Phra Mongkut Hospital doctor, said today Maj Hathaiporn had shown signs of recovering, opening her eyes and moving her body.

She would remain under close medical watch for treatment of a swelling of the brain.

A purported surveillance camera video posted on YouTube by CiNNtv1 shows a car (in red circle) making a U-turn, pausing briefly and then hitting Maj Hathaiporn (in blue circle) as she was about to get into her car on the night of June 11, 2011. After the car hit the woman doctor, it made another U-turn and fled with its headlights turned off.

He was even caught on video (see here at http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... surrenders) but can still walk free without even a preliminary charge of leaving the scene of the accident and not providing assistance.

The latest development, in fact, is that the guy who turned himself in was probably not even the person driving and might be taking or could have been ordered to take the rap for someone even higher up!!

This one really stinks

[Spitfire]

The law here is just a commodity that is there for those that can afford to exercise it or circumnavigate it.

Many Thai laws are very ambiguous and can be manipulated to suit the ends of those that can afford to interact with it.

When you think about it, is there any wonder that there is so much discourse in this country when it operates under such a discriminatory regime towards those it considers as slaves, aliens or being irrevelant?

However, change happens everywhere slowly. They may not be able to shut everyone up here forever just because the minority that propagate unjust social values of a nepotistic and corrupt society say it should be so.

Also, hoping that the general public will be kept in place by and will continue to be brainwashed by the mind-numbing garbage on TV everyday might not work forever.

The only thing most Thais know about the law here is that if someone does something serious to them or their family, and it's not their fault, then they know to put their hand out and ask for money.

Only poor people are sent to jail here. The law is not for the rich, just the scum (as the rich perceive it) or not connected. Many rich people in Thailand, and other Asian countries for that matter, believe that they have earned the right to not be constrained by such things. Rather like the rich tosser in the Benz that thinks it's OK to triple park for twenty minutes as the traffic laws are not for him because he's earned the right through becoming rich to not be subject to the same rules as the local som-tam seller, teacher or tourist etc.

And when it comes to the armed forces then you might as well ask if there's a highway code on the moon. They are above the law, always have been.

As mentioned above, it's a dysfunctional society that exists because people have always accepted their so-called given place and class level.

With people in general becoming better educated, despite the best efforts of the MoE to the contorary, and having Internet etc then I'm not sure how long this old style regime of doing things will last.

[migrant]

Mrs. M's late husband was a small time movie actor, but had very good connections since his cousin was a pretty famous one.

When they moved to the states he entertained many generals, etc here, taking them to Las Vegas, etc.

My wife shrugs her shoulders when we discuss this matter of different laws for rich, and poor, and says if you know the right people it's easy to get away with anything, even murder.

[Spitfire]

Yes Migrant, the ambivalence of many Thais about it all only serves to propagate the current lamentable situation.

[PeteC]

What Barry's post above does not mention that I could see is that the Major now weighs 90 kilos, unlike her much earlier file photo used with the story. Show me a squat Thai woman weighing 90 kilos and I'll show you someone who doesn't leap onto cars and pull off windshield wipers. Pete

[Super Joe]

Has this country always been poor when it comes to up-holding the law?

Just as well isn't it, otherwise mine and your (or our partners) businesses would have been closed down long ago, wouldn't they?
Or do you mean the country's labour laws... or have all the girls in the bars had pay raises from 0 to the minimum wage this year?

Look at Thailand's neighbours... maybe a dose of Communism keeps the people 'in-line'..?? The Chinese don't stand any s**t, what about Vietnam or Cambodia?? (We know about Myanmar & N.Korea).

And we'd be running bars and building houses 100 yards from the main Temple in the Royal town in these countries wouldn't we

Thailand is abysmal at upholding the law where the rich and powerful are concerned, but so is every 2nd/3rd world country where corruption is rife, barrys' example is a classic example. But if you follow the video articles below at least they're showing the army chief being questioned in the police station, showing video of his crime, naming and shaming his 'name', pouring over his car, and interviewing witnesses on camear at the scene. Would this happen in China, Myanmar, N.Korea etc?
http://youtu.be/muDKGdhSkIE
http://www.youtube.com/user/CiNNtv1#p/a/u/1/31cYXq0X9ko
http://youtu.be/NpIyd6bEMzc

These people care as much for the 'poor' Thai people as we do the legitimate Thai bar & property businesses we take money from. When we stop aiding and abetting corruption (paying the MIB 'x' every month) we'll be better placed to judge others. Thailand isn't getting worse while every where else is getting better... we just get more bitter about life the longer we live here

SJ

[caller]

Spitfire - IMHO that was an excellent post in summing up the current position. But of course, you're based in or near to the gateway to Isaan/Issan/Esarn/E-san, so may have a different perspective?

There was a quote a year so back, I do wish I could find it? Where a Thai general was bemoaning the fact that 'in the old days we could just go and shoot people, but we can't do that now'. Well that was the gist of it at least - so maybe that is a sign of progress?

Unless of course, its in Bkk and displayed to the World?!

[Takiap]

Personally, I agree with SJ, in that I don't think the country is getting worse, but each to his own.


Another thing which always amuses me is the way practically every Farang you meet sides with the poor as far as this subject is concerned. Sure, you can often get out of trouble if you have enough cash, and the rich use this to their advantage. My question is, if the poor working class Thai man were to suddenly become rich, would he not adopt the exact same morals?

An example along similar lines can be seen with the MIB - the bobby on the corner pockets the small fines, even though he is not rich and wealthy, while the ones at the top, who are quite wealthy, pocket the larger sums of money.

Corruption is widely accepted by Thai society as a whole, and the option to buy your way out of trouble is available to one and all, providing you can afford it. If the poor could afford it, they would be as guilty as the rich are. A poor person can't afford a BMW, while a rich person can. That doesn't mean the poor are being treated unfairly, unless of course you support communism.


I know a few Thais who have gone through university, found good jobs and work hard for their money. But now they are not poor farmers, so obviously they are Bangkok elite, even though they have rarely even been to Bangkok. Sure their parents put them through their studies, but why shouldn't they. After all, our parents did the same for us, and we in turn are doing the same for our kids.


So many on here always refer to "rich kids" in a way that makes anyone apart from beggars look bad. Just remember though, your own kids, attending international schools, are one day going to be one of those "rich kids" as well, and the poor will be saying they are in good jobs, and have plenty of money only because of their rich Farang Daddies.



Anyway......back to topic.

[Spitfire]

Another thing which always amuses me is the way practically every Farang you meet sides with the poor as far as this subject is concerned.

That's probably because most of us foreigners, certainly the non criminal type, feel the sharp end of the same stick (discrimination) as the normal Thais do but in a slightly different way, still the same system/stick though.

Also, agree that the poorer Thais would act in the same way as the currently rich ones do if they suddenly got lots of money but just because it's the way it is doesn't make it right or worthy of continuity. They would act in the same way as there is no other model and it's forced down everyone's throat everyday endlessly on TV, and we all know how important TV and it's images/fashions are to the locals. Don't need subliminal messages here, overtly intentional and shameless outright brainwashing is the order of the day here.

I still enjoy being here after a long time too, but over time and with experience, I have come to recognize the heartlessness of the system/culture here and see nothing wrong with pointing out it's shortcomings, rather like I also do with the place I come from, the UK. No apology to any apologists out there from me.

Maybe......just maybe, the kids growing up now may adopt a less selfish direction in the future and become more pragmatic on several issues.

Until it does this on a few subjects then Thailand will not be at ease with itself as change/modern times may finally be starting to catch up with them. Hopefully the next generation will not be too blinkered to see it all and at least move further down the road of change.

Caller - I too remember the military moaning about such things. I suppose in places such as the like as where I am, there is less of the glitzy resort city frills and flash cash floating around in general so the gaps in society and the way people operate is easier to see as there are less bright lights around to obscure the focus.

[Dr Mike]

Last night I was with a Thai friend--we came to a red light--he stopped and then as there was no traffic drove through--A police car appeared and followed us--the cop put on his flasher and flashed his lights. he came alongside and motioned the driver to pull over--my friend did nothing, he did not speed up or try to outrun the cop just ignored the signals. After about 5K the cop gave up.

[dozer]

^
And the moral of the story is??

[Takiap]

I agree with your sentiments Spitfire, but I seriously can't see Thai society changing so dramatically, even a few generations down the line. Don't forget, in the eyes of most Thais, no other countries even exist, and if they do exist, the inhabitants are all zombies that know nothing at all.By and large, Thais believe they are superior to others, just as they believe they can do anything and everything better than anyone else can. This is obviously something which, as you say, is force fed from a very young age, thereby not leaving much opportunity for change. By the time they are old enough to think for themselves, they are already set in their ways as far as mindset is concerned.


Of course I am not referring to all Thais, but the vast majority do seem to be this way.


Until the baht loses its status of being the ultimate God, no change is going to take place.