[quote="caller"]
But is it wise to encourage others to commit fraud and to face the consequences if caught? As if abroad, I could imagine the only penalty the state could, or would want to impose, would be claiming back the pension overpaid from ongoing payments, leaving the recipient a shortfall they hadn't budgeted for. Oh, they'll also claim against any estate left as well.
quote]
Not encouraging anyone to commit any fraudulent activity.Trying to stress to Thai Rob that he needs advice from the horses mouth and not from an expat website.However if you are careful how you fill out a form for any UK government agency you need only to answer correctly and honestly the questions they ask and the secret is not to volunteer any extra info.That is not fraud its called common sense,Rob needs to do a weebit more spadework with the people he has paid his money to all these years.The telephone helpline can get him a wealth of imformation as to his rights and benefits just with the production of a National Insurance number
Planning for my retirement
Caller wrote;
But whichever way you look at it, by claiming you continue to reside in the the UK, when you are not, to claim your annual state pension increase, is a criminal offence.
Hi caller,
Seeing as how the Inland Revenue came up with a method to claim you continue to reside in the UK, when you are not, to claim your income tax, I think it is only fair if you use the same logic back at the NI to claim your full pension increases.
I forget exactly how this worked but it involved a word game with resident, ordinarily resident, domiciled and ordinarily domiciled. Even in the Inland Revenue guide, it admitted that it was a complex issue.
If they have an issue with this, you can point out that it was only a guideline and your decision is final!
But whichever way you look at it, by claiming you continue to reside in the the UK, when you are not, to claim your annual state pension increase, is a criminal offence.
Hi caller,
Seeing as how the Inland Revenue came up with a method to claim you continue to reside in the UK, when you are not, to claim your income tax, I think it is only fair if you use the same logic back at the NI to claim your full pension increases.
I forget exactly how this worked but it involved a word game with resident, ordinarily resident, domiciled and ordinarily domiciled. Even in the Inland Revenue guide, it admitted that it was a complex issue.
If they have an issue with this, you can point out that it was only a guideline and your decision is final!
Residence in both the UK and another country
1.4 It is possible to be resident (or ordinarily resident) in both the UK and some other country (or countries) at the same time. If you are resident (or ordinarily resident) in another country, this does not mean that you cannot also be resident (or ordinarily resident) in the UK.
See what I mean, according to the revenue you can be two places at once!
1.4 It is possible to be resident (or ordinarily resident) in both the UK and some other country (or countries) at the same time. If you are resident (or ordinarily resident) in another country, this does not mean that you cannot also be resident (or ordinarily resident) in the UK.
See what I mean, according to the revenue you can be two places at once!
My retirement
Thanks for the contributions. Saying i have been exploited Digger was a bit of self deprecating humour, i do recognise i am lucky in many respects. The comments come from being in a modestly paid public sector job where retirement at 60 was one of the few perks. You are correct about 44 yrs being the current number of years a man has to work to qualify for a full pension. The good news for me is the qualifying period for women and men is being reduced to 30 years from 2010. My main concern when i did my first post was as a modest earner with slightly lesser money than you probably Digger, i need to maximise my pension. I am planning well in advance a few years to go yet. Enjoying the sun in England at the moment but roll on February for my next visit to Thailand.
Unfortunately, its not the revenue who pay your pension! All I would suggest is that people check the declaration they sign when claiming. And remember, the revenue (in its new guise as well) and those paying the pension share the same systems, all governed by National Insurance Numbers.STEVE G wrote:Residence in both the UK and another country
1.4 It is possible to be resident (or ordinarily resident) in both the UK and some other country (or countries) at the same time. If you are resident (or ordinarily resident) in another country, this does not mean that you cannot also be resident (or ordinarily resident) in the UK.
See what I mean, according to the revenue you can be two places at once!
But hey, why worry, you've done your 44 years or whatever, you're being screwed 'cos you're not in the UK, yet the DWP have just admitted to issuing National Insurance No's to obviously bogus applicants with equally bogus documents for the last 6 years at least!
They then pass this info on to immigration who have just admitted they do nothing with it!!!
So while you are being screwed, some many thousands of immigration offenders are gaining full access to the services and benefits you are denied because you live abroad.
Funny old world?
Talk is cheap
Caller wrote;
Unfortunately, its not the revenue who pay your pension! All I would suggest is that people check the declaration they sign when claiming.
Hi Caller,
Yes you are right, I was being flippant. But on a serious note I think I’m right in saying that you can legally stay resident if you visit the UK at least once a year. So if for instance you were going back every year to visit family or whatever, it would be worth considering. It would depend a lot on what other income you had in the UK as you would then be liable for income tax.
Unfortunately, its not the revenue who pay your pension! All I would suggest is that people check the declaration they sign when claiming.
Hi Caller,
Yes you are right, I was being flippant. But on a serious note I think I’m right in saying that you can legally stay resident if you visit the UK at least once a year. So if for instance you were going back every year to visit family or whatever, it would be worth considering. It would depend a lot on what other income you had in the UK as you would then be liable for income tax.
On the subject of other income and visiting the UK, I'm registered as a Non Resident Landlord living abroad. I can visit for up to 90 days in any one tax year without losing that status. I still have to pay tax though. It's just not deducted at source, but paid gross with a tax return being done at the end of the year to minimise my liability. (How they know when I've been back is beyong me as you don't get entry and exit stamps on your passport any more. Airlines could give that info, but I hardly think they check in most instances).
Others have told me that I shouldn't be paying any tax now as I'm not fully resident and not claiming any benefits, but my understanding is that any income earned in the UK is subject to tax, but maybe at much lower rates than if you reside there full time.
Others have told me that I shouldn't be paying any tax now as I'm not fully resident and not claiming any benefits, but my understanding is that any income earned in the UK is subject to tax, but maybe at much lower rates than if you reside there full time.
I was in that position but since my letting income rarely exceeded my allowances (after decent accounting was carried out!) I didn't pay any tax on the letting income. After about 7 or 8 years of that the tax office finally wrote and told me to stop submitting tax forms and only bother them again if my circumstances changed.lomuamart wrote:On the subject of other income and visiting the UK, I'm registered as a Non Resident Landlord living abroad. I can visit for up to 90 days in any one tax year without losing that status. I still have to pay tax though. It's just not deducted at source, but paid gross with a tax return being done at the end of the year to minimise my liability. (How they know when I've been back is beyong me as you don't get entry and exit stamps on your passport any more. Airlines could give that info, but I hardly think they check in most instances).
Others have told me that I shouldn't be paying any tax now as I'm not fully resident and not claiming any benefits, but my understanding is that any income earned in the UK is subject to tax, but maybe at much lower rates than if you reside there full time.
Life's a beach.....
[quote="lomuamart"]
Others have told me that I shouldn't be paying any tax now as I'm not fully resident and not claiming any benefits, but my understanding is that any income earned in the UK is subject to tax, but maybe at much lower rates than if you reside there full time.[/quote]
Hi lomu,you are completely up to speed with what you are doing unless your rental income after deductions such as agents and 10 oer cent wear and tear takes you below your personal allowance which is just over 5K gb pounds.I have been audited one time by the revenue over my 90 day allowance and they do it in a very simple way.They invite you to prove that you have been the Uk less than 90 days as they said that they felt I had exceeded my allocation.Fortunately I keep a diary with all boarding cards so I sent a detailed account of my entries and exits,they require the actual copies,I just retained photocopies.I had to tie in my bank statements so that they could tie in my ATM withdrawals with the same dates that I was claiming that I was in the country.I also had to produce service bills for the house i was was living in in Cape Town.Do not confuse revenue with other incompetent government agencies because they are seriously on the ball but they are fair.But it is a question of you proving you are innocent rather than them catching you out.If they are still not happy they will bill you an amount to pay within 60 days to encourage you work harder to prove that you truly were non resdent.
On the 90 day allocation,I believe that if you go over in one or two specific years you can claim aginst a five year total if you are under 90 times 5 years ie 450 days but jury is out on that one as i know no one who has ever done that.Advice to all is to tread carefully with revenue,if in doubt seek advice fromFCA who specialises in residency,pricey but best way.
All the best thai Rob,know you were only having a laugh
Others have told me that I shouldn't be paying any tax now as I'm not fully resident and not claiming any benefits, but my understanding is that any income earned in the UK is subject to tax, but maybe at much lower rates than if you reside there full time.[/quote]
Hi lomu,you are completely up to speed with what you are doing unless your rental income after deductions such as agents and 10 oer cent wear and tear takes you below your personal allowance which is just over 5K gb pounds.I have been audited one time by the revenue over my 90 day allowance and they do it in a very simple way.They invite you to prove that you have been the Uk less than 90 days as they said that they felt I had exceeded my allocation.Fortunately I keep a diary with all boarding cards so I sent a detailed account of my entries and exits,they require the actual copies,I just retained photocopies.I had to tie in my bank statements so that they could tie in my ATM withdrawals with the same dates that I was claiming that I was in the country.I also had to produce service bills for the house i was was living in in Cape Town.Do not confuse revenue with other incompetent government agencies because they are seriously on the ball but they are fair.But it is a question of you proving you are innocent rather than them catching you out.If they are still not happy they will bill you an amount to pay within 60 days to encourage you work harder to prove that you truly were non resdent.
On the 90 day allocation,I believe that if you go over in one or two specific years you can claim aginst a five year total if you are under 90 times 5 years ie 450 days but jury is out on that one as i know no one who has ever done that.Advice to all is to tread carefully with revenue,if in doubt seek advice fromFCA who specialises in residency,pricey but best way.
All the best thai Rob,know you were only having a laugh
Digger wrote;
On the 90 day allocation,I believe that if you go over in one or two specific years you can claim aginst a five year total if you are under 90 times 5 years ie 450 days but jury is out on that one as i know no one who has ever done that.
Hi Digger,
You are correct, the rules changed a few years ago, you can now average your visits over four years. As you say, it’s important to keep a complete record of all movements and boarding passes and ATM records are very useful. This is straight off the HM Revenue and Customs website;
Normally if you leave the UK permanently or for 3 years or more or to work abroad full-time, you will become not resident and not ordinarily resident in the UK if
• your absence from the UK covers a complete tax year (i.e. 6 April to
5 April), and
• you spend less than 183 days in the UK during the tax year, and
• your visits to the UK do not average 91 days or more a tax year over a maximum of 4 years.
(For visits to the UK, days of arrival and departure are not normally counted as days spent in the UK.)
On the 90 day allocation,I believe that if you go over in one or two specific years you can claim aginst a five year total if you are under 90 times 5 years ie 450 days but jury is out on that one as i know no one who has ever done that.
Hi Digger,
You are correct, the rules changed a few years ago, you can now average your visits over four years. As you say, it’s important to keep a complete record of all movements and boarding passes and ATM records are very useful. This is straight off the HM Revenue and Customs website;
Normally if you leave the UK permanently or for 3 years or more or to work abroad full-time, you will become not resident and not ordinarily resident in the UK if
• your absence from the UK covers a complete tax year (i.e. 6 April to
5 April), and
• you spend less than 183 days in the UK during the tax year, and
• your visits to the UK do not average 91 days or more a tax year over a maximum of 4 years.
(For visits to the UK, days of arrival and departure are not normally counted as days spent in the UK.)
This is a bit of a rant, so excuse me.
HMR&C have presided over the biggest debacle for years - the new tax credit system. Millions of pounds have been wasted and continue to be so through poor administration, lack of competence in fool-proofing the system and an inability to deal adequately with basic administration. I really don't know how senior officers and ministers (Mr Brown amongst them) have survived?
The funniest or most hurtful scam being the hacking of some 13000 DWP employees personal details by criminal gangs, (Norwich Union and some rail companies were also affected) who then used the copied details of a few thousand - get that - to make bogus tax credit claims, so not even basic checks on applicants are being made! Then it was discovered they are paying more than 200,000 single mums than actually exist (by the highest known estimate). This has cost UK tax payers millions!!! On top of which, the biggest loss of revenue to the UK coffers is (or was) excise fraud.
And they worry about a few grand earned by foreign based landlords?
Their priorities are all wrong.
HMR&C have presided over the biggest debacle for years - the new tax credit system. Millions of pounds have been wasted and continue to be so through poor administration, lack of competence in fool-proofing the system and an inability to deal adequately with basic administration. I really don't know how senior officers and ministers (Mr Brown amongst them) have survived?
The funniest or most hurtful scam being the hacking of some 13000 DWP employees personal details by criminal gangs, (Norwich Union and some rail companies were also affected) who then used the copied details of a few thousand - get that - to make bogus tax credit claims, so not even basic checks on applicants are being made! Then it was discovered they are paying more than 200,000 single mums than actually exist (by the highest known estimate). This has cost UK tax payers millions!!! On top of which, the biggest loss of revenue to the UK coffers is (or was) excise fraud.
And they worry about a few grand earned by foreign based landlords?
Their priorities are all wrong.
Talk is cheap
Hi Caller,
yes, these people are incredible, did you know, that in 2001, the then Inland Revenue sold all there own property to a company indirectly based in Bermuda and leased it back on a twenty year lease because it was more tax efficient!
I’m serious, to quote an interview with Robin Priest who was involved with the deal;
He added the Revenue was fully aware of the cost benefits of dealing with a company based in a tax haven. "Critically, the benefits of the tax position we have are handed back to the government through a lower charge we make to them every year,"
It makes me feel a lot better about the tax I’ve avoided by working overseas for the last decade or so!
yes, these people are incredible, did you know, that in 2001, the then Inland Revenue sold all there own property to a company indirectly based in Bermuda and leased it back on a twenty year lease because it was more tax efficient!
I’m serious, to quote an interview with Robin Priest who was involved with the deal;
He added the Revenue was fully aware of the cost benefits of dealing with a company based in a tax haven. "Critically, the benefits of the tax position we have are handed back to the government through a lower charge we make to them every year,"
It makes me feel a lot better about the tax I’ve avoided by working overseas for the last decade or so!
UK Contributions
Blue Nose
I think you are overpaying. I work abroad and do not pay tax but keep my NI contributions for my full pension and pay less than a tenner a month. A few blokes here were paying the higher rate until recently but applied for the new rate and a refund which can go back for 2 years I think.
PM me if you want more info because there is a notice with details on the notice board in my compound.
I think you are overpaying. I work abroad and do not pay tax but keep my NI contributions for my full pension and pay less than a tenner a month. A few blokes here were paying the higher rate until recently but applied for the new rate and a refund which can go back for 2 years I think.
PM me if you want more info because there is a notice with details on the notice board in my compound.
'If you didn't have a wasted youth you wasted your youth'
Man in pub circa 1987.
Man in pub circa 1987.
[quote="caller"]
And they worry about a few grand earned by foreign based landlords?
Their priorities are all wrong.[/quote]
Agree with you mate,The join up of revenue and customs is a shambolic organisation even after EDS had to carry the can for the failure of the computer systems but their problem was Brown and his revenue team werechanging the goalposts every year.
However do not confuse this with the ordinary line tax inspector who works at centre 1 in East Kilbride.These people are seriously good but also efficient and fair.I do not think they relentlessly pursue foreign based landlords but if you fill in a tax return obviously they audit 3 or 4 in a hundred.
Having worked drilling rigs for 30 years I know there are thousands of UK based guys drawing dollar salaries free of uk tax and returning to their homes in UK for their months field break thus using more than 90 days every financial year.Reason they have no problem is they do not fill out a tax return so they have really become a non person.Digger
And they worry about a few grand earned by foreign based landlords?
Their priorities are all wrong.[/quote]
Agree with you mate,The join up of revenue and customs is a shambolic organisation even after EDS had to carry the can for the failure of the computer systems but their problem was Brown and his revenue team werechanging the goalposts every year.
However do not confuse this with the ordinary line tax inspector who works at centre 1 in East Kilbride.These people are seriously good but also efficient and fair.I do not think they relentlessly pursue foreign based landlords but if you fill in a tax return obviously they audit 3 or 4 in a hundred.
Having worked drilling rigs for 30 years I know there are thousands of UK based guys drawing dollar salaries free of uk tax and returning to their homes in UK for their months field break thus using more than 90 days every financial year.Reason they have no problem is they do not fill out a tax return so they have really become a non person.Digger
The first year I came over the tax man sent me a cheque for 1.01 pounds. The second year I owed them 250 GBP and the third 230 GBP.
I havn't bothered filing a return now for the past 5 years and keep waiting for them to catch up with me. Expenditure has been quite high over these past years, so I'll probably owe virtually nothing. Still, I always thought I had to file a return every year. If I didn't I'd be fined. I'm encouraged to hear the comments made above. I'm not really up on tax matters.
I havn't bothered filing a return now for the past 5 years and keep waiting for them to catch up with me. Expenditure has been quite high over these past years, so I'll probably owe virtually nothing. Still, I always thought I had to file a return every year. If I didn't I'd be fined. I'm encouraged to hear the comments made above. I'm not really up on tax matters.